Adamas gift - Newbie needs help!!!!
kboy54
Posted 2014-11-10 12:04 AM (#500768)
Subject: Adamas gift - Newbie needs help!!!!


Joined:
January 2003
Posts: 7

Hello folks - I've been gifted with an Adamas 1587 (Black)! No Owners Manual. Before I begin: "Where has "she" been all my life - love this guitar!" But now I've learned that Ovation (USA) is closing it's doors so I'm desperate & filled with questions about this design. Please help. (1) Where will Adamas owners go for potential replacement parts, servicing, repairs (though these seem quite bullet-proof in build)? (2) Myth or Truth - I was told that Adamas models sound best when strung with light gauge strings? (3) Can my Adamas be strung with medium gauge or will this cause damage to the top? (4) Is the factory officially closed or will Ovation be accepting final Adamas orders? (5) Personally curious - have any Adamas owners in this forum modified their guitars (i.e., pickup system, tuners, etc.)? (6) Friend's question - how are Adamas guitars finished? Is the color sprayed on or "mixed into the top's material during production process? Thank you all in advance.
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2014-11-10 12:29 AM (#500770 - in reply to #500768)
Subject: Re: Adamas gift - Newbie needs help!!!!



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10382

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
(1) Depending on what kind of service you need, most can be done at a regular guitar shop. Otherwise, there is a small repair shop still in operation.

(2) If by "light" you mean .012-.053... Yes that is Truth.

(3) If by "medium" you mean .013-.056... Yes, you should be able to. You may have to adjust the truss-rod and the saddle height.

(4) Yes, the New Hartford Factory is closed. No, they will not be accepting any Adamas orders.

(5) I have seen a few Adamii that have been modified on eBay... so I am sure that it happens.
Now that the Factory is closed, any modification will have to be done without the factory's approval.
And I have seen many Adamii with changed tuning machines. (not personally, but online)

(6) I have two Adamii... They both look like the paint was added after the top was created.
There was two-tone, chameleon finish on the Ruby Red 1597 that I wondered how they did.

Hopefully that is helpful...
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kboy54
Posted 2014-11-10 1:17 AM (#500771 - in reply to #500768)
Subject: Re: Adamas gift - Newbie needs help!!!!


Joined:
January 2003
Posts: 7

"O.M.A." - thank you so much for the info. (1) Where does the truss rod adjust on my 1587? End of neck I imagine. (2) The small repair shop - still in operation you mentioned - is it still in New Hartford? Do they have a contact PH# or? Once again, my thanks!
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2014-11-10 2:48 AM (#500774 - in reply to #500768)
Subject: Re: Adamas gift - Newbie needs help!!!!



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10382

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
If it has a Truss Rod Cover, it would be under that... If Not, it is inside the guitar.

As far as contacting the "Mini Mother".... HERE
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DetlefMichel
Posted 2014-11-10 12:34 PM (#500784 - in reply to #500774)
Subject: Re: Adamas gift - Newbie needs help!!!!



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 581

Location: Muenster/Germany
First of all: congrats, a 1587 is a wonderful guitar! Grrrr..would perfectly match my little collection. Maybe l´ll find one of these one day and why should I spend my money on food, clothing, housing or other needless things.
ad2) I use 0.11-50 strings on all Adamii. Unlike rosewood-based "usual" guitars the Adamas sounds much better if not played too hard and in my opinion little lighter strings on these guitars are better. Besides that I don´t think that you can harm an Adamas top with stronger strings except for the unluckily constructed string holder on the AdI models.
ad5) Actually I modified one of my Adamii, the 2087 which had no soundholes on the lower bout. I found the sound little too "close" so I ordered an epaulet and added new soundholes, even one more than on the original OV, I like the new sound more, it´s comparable to the difference between mono and stereo. You don´t have that problem, your guitar already has these soundholes.
Another thing I did with ALL of my Ovations, I exchanged the shims under the pickups with exactly matching wooden ones, spruce for the woodtops, hardwood for the Adamii and rosewood for the Elite Bass. I believe this improves the frequency response from the strings to the top and on my bass there was a noticeable better sustain and a better punch on the low A and E string.
One of the construction principles of the Adamas guitar is that that soundboard does not touch the top (similar to an archtop guitar) in order to let the whole board vibrate freely. That´s why I added an armrest on all of my guitars, it really improves the acoustic sound! Just try the difference if you listen to the guitar when not being touched on the top by your forearm.
All of my Ovations have perfect working tuning machines, the only thing I exchanged were the tuner knobs, I prefer wooden ones by Schaller,made of ebony, nice addition to the black color of the body or, on the woodtops, the fretboard. Of course rosewood knobs for my 1681WT!
In general I must say that an Adamas guitar is comparable to a Mercedes 560 SEC. But...there are also 560 SEC AMG. If you look very closely on any kind of construction you may always find little, sometimes very little things to enhance or adjust them to your personal taste. Why not.
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FlySig
Posted 2014-11-10 8:07 PM (#500792 - in reply to #500768)
Subject: Re: Adamas gift - Newbie needs help!!!!



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 3849

Location: Utah
While you could put on medium gauge strings, I would not do so if you tune to concert pitch. The factory is capable of basic repair work but cannot replace a damaged top. Which means if you damage the carbon fiber top then your guitar is not repairable. My daughter's Adamas top delaminated beginning at the back of the bridge, which is a high stress location. The guitar may have sustained an impact at some time, perhaps while in the case during transport. Fortunately this was before the factory closed, so they were able to rebuild her guitar better than new, and did it for the usual crazy reasonable price they were known for.

I have not modified my Adamas yet, but have installed different tuners on other guitars. I like locking tuners though they can be a bit heavy. The 18:1 ratio are an improvement over the factory standard (12:1 or perhaps 14:1?). I would not hesitate to replace tuners on any guitar as long as there are no new holes needed.

I've also swapped around preamps in various Os and As. Just be sure the can in the body has the same number of copper tabs in the connector as the preamp module you're installing. Older preamps have 7 tabs, newer models have 8 tabs. These are the kidney shaped preamps such as Op30, Op40, Op Pro, Studio, VIP, iDea.
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kboy54
Posted 2014-11-11 2:38 PM (#500809 - in reply to #500792)
Subject: Re: Adamas gift - Newbie needs help!!!!


Joined:
January 2003
Posts: 7

You folks are all so kind AND informative. I stumbled upon the small service/repair shop that will remain at the now closed factory and spoke to John Budny. He stated that my Adamas can take medium strings with no problem. However, the thought of them not being able to repair my top in the event of damage greatly concerns me. More questions (if you don't mind). (1) Has any one (or heard of another) placed a non-Ovation type of pickup system into their guitar (i.e., Fishman)? (2) Does any one know the "fate" of the leftover components (I knew a guy who was hired to guard the warehouse in Fullerton, full of bodies, necks, etc., after CBS sold them)? (3) Does any one know if the Adamas model will be built in...gulp, China...or Japan (I wouldn't mind)...or? Bless you all!
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2014-11-11 3:08 PM (#500810 - in reply to #500768)
Subject: Re: Adamas gift - Newbie needs help!!!!



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10382

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
(1) Yes.

(2) I don't believe that there were any "leftovers". Things like Preamps can be used in Korean Ovations. A reliable source said that the Wood was sold. Other parts may be at the Mini Mother.

(3) I would say "Yes"... But I don't think that Fender has that much foresight. I don't know how ambitious the folks at the Asian factories are... A wise shop manager might suggest it. Then the Fender board of directors could say "No". Adamii were not cheap to produce... So would you pay $5K for a Korean or Chinese "Adamas"?
Remember, the Hedge Fund mentality of FMIC would need 150+% profit on anything like that.
This is a company that adds hundreds of dollars to make a guitar look "old"

Oh... I want to add that Peavey bought and rescued Composite Acoustics guitars. They did not outsource the manufacture to Asia. And I am not positive, but I don't think any of the Composite guitar makers make guitars in Asia. (CA, Rainsong, Blackbird, Emerald) So it might be more cost effective just to make them here.
But Fender is not about making guitars, they are about making money.

Edited by Old Man Arthur 2014-11-11 3:19 PM
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kboy54
Posted 2014-11-11 9:10 PM (#500815 - in reply to #500768)
Subject: Re: Adamas gift - Newbie needs help!!!!


Joined:
January 2003
Posts: 7

Thanks again "O.M.A." (and everyone else)! My Adamas has opened a whole new world for me while simultaneously raising more questions in the process. Questions (if you all don't mind): (1) Were the Adamas models built in a special section of the factory (i.e., custom shop)? (2) Did a specialized team of workers make them? (3) Were they only made when an order came in from a dealer? (4) Does Ovation have manufacturing facilities in Japan? IMHO, the Japanese are highly capable builders and very meticulous in their attention to detail (the Fender Japan Strats, Teles, etc) easily surpassed the late-CBS & early-post CBS Corona reissues. Manufacturing cost in Japan would not mean a cheaper Adamas but I feel they definitely have the skills to produce one. And, Fender already has manufacturing facilities there...one man's dreams.
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kboy54
Posted 2014-11-11 9:15 PM (#500816 - in reply to #500768)
Subject: Re: Adamas gift - Newbie needs help!!!!


Joined:
January 2003
Posts: 7

"Arthur" - could you (or any other member) share the details specifically about the installation of a non-Ovation pickup system in one of their guitars? Thank you in advance.
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2014-11-11 9:28 PM (#500817 - in reply to #500768)
Subject: Re: Adamas gift - Newbie needs help!!!!



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10382

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
What is wrong with the pickup that is currently in the guitar?

If you are just talking about the actual undersaddle pickup, you would need to find another pickup that fits in the slot with a 1/8" plug to go into the preamp.
If you are taking about replacing the preamp, you would need to cut a hole in the side for the controls...
Unless it is just a direct-out pickup... which would just go to the output jack, with maybe a battery pouch or box...

Which would draw me back to the original question...
What is wrong with the pickup that is currently in the guitar?


Edited by Old Man Arthur 2014-11-11 9:53 PM
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kboy54
Posted 2014-11-11 9:42 PM (#500818 - in reply to #500768)
Subject: Re: Adamas gift - Newbie needs help!!!!


Joined:
January 2003
Posts: 7

Just curious mainly. I was wondering how a system incorporating a microphone (since they've become smaller & more sophisticated) would work within the body of an Ovation. One of the members posting earlier had mentioned how he modified his Ovation.
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2014-11-11 10:45 PM (#500821 - in reply to #500815)
Subject: Re: Adamas gift - Newbie needs help!!!!



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10382

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
kboy54 posted:
Questions (if you all don't mind):

(1) Were the Adamas models built in a special section of the factory (i.e., custom shop)?
+(2) Did a specialized team of workers make them?
I am not sure, I think that they were built in another "area" of the Factory.

(3) Were they only made when an order came in from a dealer?
I believe that many were made "production"...
After Fender took over, they all became custom order.
But all USA Ovations became custom order.


(4) Does Ovation have manufacturing facilities in Japan?
No. But I believe that the Pinnacle series was made in Japan. That was a while ago.
------------------------------
Oh, as to making guitars in Japan being "cheaper"? It is more expensive to manufacture stuff in Japan.
Hirade (expensive Takamine) are made in Japan. Cheap-*** Jasmines are made in China.
Making stuff in China? China will make any product to any specification you ask. Cheap crap that comes outta China was specified to be cheap crap by the company that ordered it.
So... Fender Affinity Strats are made in China.
iPhones, iPads, my Computer, my TV set, my Roland CubeStreet, and all kinds of other stuff like my microwave and coffee-maker are made in China. All of it is pretty good.
Crappy $97 guitars from China are crap because they only cost $1.97 to make.


Edited by Old Man Arthur 2014-11-11 10:49 PM
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FlySig
Posted 2014-11-12 8:25 AM (#500832 - in reply to #500816)
Subject: Re: Adamas gift - Newbie needs help!!!!



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 3849

Location: Utah
kailuaboy54 - 2014-11-11 8:15 PM

"Arthur" - could you (or any other member) share the details specifically about the installation of a non-Ovation pickup system in one of their guitars? Thank you in advance.


If the guitar has no electronics in it yet, a thin piezo pickup could be installed under the existing saddle. The saddle would then have to be sanded down to get the string height back to where it was. This would be a super simple installation. From there, one could install either an onboard preamp or just an output jack. There are several good preamps out there which mount hidden or nearly hidden inside the guitar. Some of them mount via double sided tape near the sound hole, with just one or two small wheels barely visible for adjusting the volume and tone. Some have a preamp built into a new strap button. The center of the strap button becomes the output jack. This would require the strap button hole be enlarged due to the new jack/button being a larger diameter than the existing screw hole. If you didn't use the jack/button you would have to drill a hole for an output jack. This is simple but would take a little bit of care (as I would expect any Ovation owner would do out of caution not to do something stupid and damage his guitar).

Some have installed entire Ovation preamp systems into a previously acoustic only guitar. This requires some precise cutting of the bowl, and is not a job for a beginner or for the un-brave! I would not attempt this on one of my guitars. But it has been done successfully by others here.

The factory piezo systems are of two varieties. One is the "Thin Line" which is a 1/8" wide saddle that looks from the outside like any other acoustic saddle, but it has a pickup element attached to the bottom. The other is the "OPP" which is a 3/8" wide assembly, and is the more common one of the two piezos. The OPP is an integrated assembly with a metal tray, piezo elements, and the plastic saddle on top.

If you want to replace either one, the easiest method would be to buy a new saddle assembly from the repair shop. Or you could buy an aftermarket pickup.

Artec makes piezo pickups. The 1/8" wide unit fits under a standard saddle. It plugs right into the existing Ovation preamp. It could be used to replace a Thin Line pickup assembly but you'd also have to buy a new saddle.

To replace the OPP it is more difficult. At this time I can't find any wider piezos or assemblies by 3rd party manufacturers. Artec makes a wider piezo pickup element but I cannot find any for sale.

If you want to replace an existing Ovation preamp module you would do best to acquire another Ovation unit.
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FlySig
Posted 2014-11-12 8:28 AM (#500833 - in reply to #500818)
Subject: Re: Adamas gift - Newbie needs help!!!!



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 3849

Location: Utah
kailuaboy54 - 2014-11-11 8:42 PM

Just curious mainly. I was wondering how a system incorporating a microphone (since they've become smaller & more sophisticated) would work within the body of an Ovation. One of the members posting earlier had mentioned how he modified his Ovation.


I've heard live a wood box with an internal microphone style system added to it. It sounded very good. My concern would be feedback at volumes more than coffee shop levels. For recording an internal mic might be a great idea, eliminating the need for an external mic and all the constraints of not moving from the sweet spot with the external mic.
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DetlefMichel
Posted 2014-11-25 4:15 AM (#501277 - in reply to #500768)
Subject: RE: Adamas gift - Newbie needs help!!!!



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 581

Location: Muenster/Germany
A microphone inside the guitar will give you the sound inside the guitar and that is awful, really not what you hear unsually. Besides that the inside mic also multiplies all noises you make when handling the guitar. I believe this is not the way, I had those sytems in several guitars and almost always switched the mic off.
A slightly better idea was the added mic in the 1995 collector´s Ovation, outside the bowl and there where the playing noises (picks, fingernails...)are made. I would say that the quality of nowaday´s mics would allow to place it right there.
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