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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by Buckaroo:
Dave, What sort of music are you wanting to put on the CD? It's up to the members. What ever you want to contribute. originals, covers, group, solo, vocal, instrumental, etc. Anything is good. If there is more than one CD worth of submissions I'll try to make a diverse selection that I think will please everyone. It's not a talent contest. Just an outlet for us to share our music and the sounds of our (ovation) guitars. Dave |
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Location: North Texas | Thanks for the heads up! I can't wait to hear Baileys' rendition of Tiny Bubbles on his solidbody Viper ukelele. Don Ho, watch out! |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | UPDATE: The first submissions have started to arrive. Good stuff. Don't be shy and don't worry that ya ain't good enough. It's all fun. Dave |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | These are the current 17 songs remaining on the original play list. This may encourage you to contribute. You should have heard the 6 that already got bumped.
Born To Uke (Springsteen)
Ukes Better You Bet (The Who)
Owner Of A Lonely Uke (Yes)
All The Young Ukes (Mott The Hoople)
Willie, Mickey & The Uke (Cashman & West)
Ukes Are The Sunshine Of My Life (Stevie Wonder)
Uke Band On The Titanic (Harry Chapin)
Smells Like Uke Spirit (Nirvana)
Adore Ukes (Smashng Pumpkins)
Gentle On My Uke (John Hartford)
Ukes The One That I Want (Olivia Newton John)
Comfortably Uke (Pink Floyd)
59th Street Uke Song (Simon & Garfunkel)
Bell Bottom Ukes (Eric Clapton)
Suite: Judy Blue Uke (CSN&Y)
Ukulele #9 (John Lennon)
Ukes In White Satin (Moody Blues)
Motivated yet?
Dave |
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Location: closely held secret | At first I thought "Born to Uke" said "Born to..." never mind. |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I've decided to buy an Ovation Palm Tree uke and submit my recorded version of "Tiny Bubbles" |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Dave,
Please, tell me, you are not dressing as "Tiny Bubbles" on Halloween |
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Location: Las Cruces, NM | I hope this thread doesn't cause any rumors on homeland security about an imminent attack on society's decorum and values!!!! |
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Location: Atlanta, GA | Umm, the information on the use of copyrighted material is incorrect. Regardless of whether the CDs are sold or given away, the copyright holder is due the mechanical licensing fee prescribed by statute (currently $0.085 per copy). The Flatpick-L mailing list does a similar project on a fairly regular basis called Plectrology and I handled the legal issues and copyright licensing (yes, I'm an IP lawyer) for the last edition (all 6 CDs worth). The mechanical licensing fees amounted to about $2.40 per CD set and before we could have the copies made by the CD duplicating house, we had to provide them signed written waivers for original materials as well as indicia that we had taken the appropriate steps to pay the copyright fees.
In fact, one of the Flatpick-L members who had a recording of his band playing "Old Home Place" on the band's websit received notice from the copyright holder (Doug Dillard) requesting that he remove the recording from the website since it violated the copyright.
The obvious solution is to record only public somain or traditional materials, or original songs with appropriate grants of a royalty-free license.
I would be happy to help folks work through this issue if needed.
As they used to say on "Hill Stret Blues" -- "Be careful out there."
Bill Bain
Atlanta |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Not that I know this area at all (because I certainly do not) but isn't there a way around royalties, i.e. if the song is a certain span of time removed from it's original recording or from an artist's death? I thought I read something about somebody wanting to record Lennon's "Imagine" but they had to wait a few years before they could do it.
Would it be ok to record "older" songs or are there no lines drawn at all? |
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Location: south east Michigan | I can see where the problem is when a song is made available for download on a website. And perhaps this OFC members disc will send us all to jail. I'm not doubting the letter of the law but come on.
Can I play a Beatles song in my living room?
Can I record that song?
Can I give a copy of that song to my wife to listen to in her car?
Can I give a copy of that song to someone and ask for an opinion or some playing tips???
Am I going to get busted for playing "Let It Be" at the next open mic?
Sure the digital information age has caused problems in the music industry and there are many different levels that people are comfortable with. But does this little project among friends constitute such a breach of the law?
I know...by the letter of the law, perhaps. And once you start down that slippery slope it will never stop. And on and on and on.
So where is the line??? I don't know. I do know you can go to the THE WHO's fanclub website and download copyrighted lyrics, chords and tabs for any song they ever recorded without it being an issue. Where I draw the line may be different where someone else draws the line. Has the law given up on the term "intent"?
I know crossing verbal swords with an IP lawyer might be foolish. I'm not trying to defend mass downloading. Maybe it's like this...for a time, I drove 5 mph over the speed limit on my way home from work today. Now what? |
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| ..You drove 5mph over the speed limit?!! For shame, for shame, sargent carter, you better just go turn yourself in... |
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Location: San Bernardino, California | http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Internet/1copyright.html
page down to 'Copyright History' |
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Location: Atlanta, GA | No sword crossing needed. Would the OFC CD really result in the participants being nabbed by the long arm of the law? Probably not, but that's not the same issue as whether you could be nabbed. However, for Plectrology we decided to have the CDs professionally produced from glass masters and not "burned" and you can believe that the duplication houses are very careful to observe every nuance in the applicable law, which meant playing be the same rules the big boys do, whether we liked it or not.
Remember that the $0.085 per copy mechanical license is to be paid for copies made. To answer your questions more or less directly:
1. Technically not without a license from Michael Jackson who owns the copyrights to the Beatles' catalog. Practically, his ability to enforce the copyright in that case is fairly small unless your living room happens to be the Hollywood Bowl. :-) Performance licensing is not the same as copy licensing. Note that *your* performance of the song is also copyrighted, so if someone were to take your performance and sell it (or give it away) on the Internet w/o your permission, he would be liable to you for violating your copyright on the "derivative work" AND to Michael Jackson as well. Also note that radio stations and Internet streamers procure a sort of blanket license for just that reason. That's one reason they keep logs of what they play -- so that they can have records when ASCAP or BMI or whomever come to audit them.
2. See above.
3. See above.
4. See above. Note however, that the "critic" could reproduce a limited portion of your work for the purpose of criticism since that's a "fair use" use the copyright statutes. How much he could use is very much context dependant.
5. Public performance venues are *supposed* to procure a venue license from the various orgnizations represnting music authors and publishers (e,g,, BMI). Those organizations do check; however, many venues are now requiring that the performers sort this out on their own.
The Who's lyrics are certainly copyrighted. How and if they choose to enforce the copyright is up to them. Tabs and such are a different issue -- the copyright held by The Who is for the performance - the expression of the idea, NOT the idea itself. Transcribing the performance creates a new work in which the copyright in the derivative work is held by the transcriber. Of course, if the lyrics are reproduced in the transcription, that copyright still belongs to whichever member of The Who wrote the lyrics in the first place (or whomever he assigned the rights to).
The Faustian "bargain" in the copyright rules is that the mechanical license is automatic -- note that I said nothing about having to gain the author's permission. The flip side of that is that "intent" is irrelevant -- you reproduce the song or create a derivative work of the song, you owe that $0.085 *per copy* reproduced.
Bill Bain
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Location: south east Michigan | Bill,
Thanks for taking the time for that detailed and interesting explanation. I hope you can add it to your resume as pro-bono work provided.
At $.085 per song I estimate about $.20 per disc. To take it a step further, is there a place that would accept a check to make it honest? Or would trying to do that create more problems than it solves?
If the clock has run out on you pro-bono time I understand. To bad I did not get any advise on my speeding situation though. ;) |
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Location: ms | If I understand Bill correctly, we are not looking at a fortune in royalties and some folks will record original material. I will be willing to pay for my copy just to hear the other guys. I have been on the other side of this, the first time someone recorded some of my material, I was told by the producer/publisher that my songs were listed with Ascap however after about a year I found out that they were not. My name and Ascap were listed next to each song on CD credits, I was unable to retreive royalties for air play, but could for sales. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I've got 7 submissions so far and 6 are originals. And frankly, the 7th is pretty much unrecognizable. Let's see when everything is on the table how best to proceed. I don't mind paying any nominal charges, but we would have ot cap the number of CD's to the original allotment (how ever many that might be). Thanks Bill for the offer to help. Dave |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | UPDATE: Submissions are rolling in and it's looking pretty good. Some great stuff. Don't be shy and don't be left out. We've probably got about 40% of what we need so far for a CD, so keep it coming. Dave |
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Location: closely held secret | So, how many Uke songs are left to be replaced? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Some folks sent multiple songs, which is fine. Hell, I even got a nice full CD from one member (thanks!). So it's hard to tell the actual uke count until everything is on the table. Rest assured that come hell or high tide there'll be at least ONE little uke diddy included. Dave |
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Location: Atlanta, GA | Since I'm cooling my heels at the airport waiting for a flight back to the US, I might as well add a bit to the group's knowledge about copyrights. The mechanical royalty is 8.5 cents per copy, not 0.85 cents BTW.
If you're thinking about paying the royalties, the most vital thing is to get the song title asolutely correct. You would not beleive how many submitters do not have the title correct which makes it a real b*tch to find the copyright holder in the databases.
ASCAP, BMI and one other smaller organizaton whose name I forget (hey, it's 3:30 AM where I am) have databases indicating who is the copyright owner. If you have more than 500 copies, teh Harry Fox Agency in NYC will ahndle all the paperwork, but if not, you have to pay the copyright holder directly by getting the address from the databases and sending a check.
A lot of people learn stuff from albums. If so, get them to provide the copyright info from the liner notes or the CD label and save yourself a lot of grief and effort. If not, you'll have to dig through the databases to figure out which version of "Faded Love", for example was submitted. Be prepared to spend a lot of time.
If you use a commercial duplication service (and I recommend that since even MusiciansFriend has specials for 50 CDs with printed labels for like $50 -- you can't even dupe them yourself for that price), they will require a release from each submitter grantng you the right to reproduce their performance. I can provide the release and maybe it could be hosted somewhere? You'll have to submit the release forms with the material to be duplicated.
Gotta go -- laptop battery about shot. I just wanna go home and play guitar -- it's been a h*ll of a week and I have to be in the US office 9AM sharp tomorrow.
Bill Bain
Atlanta (? I think that's where I live) |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Bill, Thanks for all the inputs.
Hey. the project is coming along OK. Got 2 more on Friday. Keep em coming. Even got submissions from across the pond. We'll probably have to cut off submissions Dec. 1st.
Dave |
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Location: Keller, TX | I have access to an automated burner. Once the copyright/royalty issues get sorted out, I could drop it in the burner for a bunch of copies. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | t2en2, thanks for the offer. That might be a big help depending what the demand is.
I got 1 more submission in this week, so we are getting close to critical mass. Looks like definately the cutoff will be Dec. 1st. Plan accordingly.
Dave |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Another package arrived yesterday. I think you will all be happy with ythe final results. Don't be shy. Still room for more. Send what you have by Dec. 1st. Dave |
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The OFC Members CD is a GO
