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Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Gee, one of our own - Serge
Seems strange that you won't find him listed on Ovation's site.
You would think that Ovation would want performers to be seen playing their guitars. Maybe even offer a little encouragement and support? At least not show disinterest.
Just my rant for the day... |
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February 2003
Posts: 2177
Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | I agree Tony. Serge said he's even contacted the folks at Ovation for alittle recognition and has been ignored......makes you wonder where the AR folks have their heads! |
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June 2002
Posts: 6194
Location: Phoenix AZ | Ovation is missing a GOLDEN opportunity.
1) top notch technical musician
2) passionate about Ovation / Adamas
3) one of the truely nicest guys you could ever meet
I'm clueless why Ovation does such a piss poor job at AR. Maybe they don't really WANT to be seen as an acoustic "players" guitar sought out by talented professionals. The line between being "plugged in" and having ones head up their arse is a very fine one.
Dave |
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June 2005
Posts: 231
Location: N.J. | I wish the AR folks would realize that when well respected guitarists {such as Serge} start getting some recognition, they will start gaining more of the market share with the "others". If they want to catch the younger crowd with the Nikki Sixx campaign then thats great,but I wish they would go for broke and start grabbing some respected players for the Adamas line and market them properly .Now I know there are a few players currently that are doing fantastic for Ovation {such as Kaki} and thats what we need more of! Its gets tiring educating uninformed sales reps at GC about the high end O's and why they should be with all the other high end guitars.Saturate the hell out of the market, let the new upper end models speak for themselves and let them take their place in history.None of it will happen unless we get respected artists to endorse them though... Man up Nancy!! I can play it AND make a salad in it when i'm done.!! :p :D |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | "The line between being "plugged in" and having ones head up their arse is a very fine one."
With Ovation's AR people, there is no distinction. And I know that if they read this, they'll kiss it off saying we don't know what we're talking about, but they are full of it. When you've got a slam dunk just sitting there.... Jeez |
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December 2003
Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA | Paul,
You're forgeting about that huge open market in selling Celebs for Polka Music. Its got to be difficult to reach everyone.
I would like to see some of the demographics, the "who the audience is" stuff. |
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August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | lets see, just in 2004 and 2005...
A line of LX's, 30th Anniv CL, several Adamas reissue, and the U681T. Not seeing them on stage or screen.
How many artists of pop, country, folk, jazz, etc., are standing on stage with one of the new ones??
I'm not forgetting the artists playing the roadhouse, pub, even the opening act. Who knows how many individuals Cliff has influenced to buy an Ovation or adopt a llama.
Again, where are the Ovations and Adamas on stage or screen.
We had an Ovation on Nashville Now (probably a Celeb and the guy, besides being wierd, didn't make past the first round). Another on the Apprentice. What major group or artist is currently using the product (other than Matt, Kaki, or Al DiMeola)?
Maybe I'm not seeing them due to a "generation gap" and not going to concerts. |
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December 2004
Posts: 2150
Location: Orlando, FL | Back in the 70s and 80s there were Ads featuring Ovation artists all over the place. You couldn't open Guitar Player Magazine without seeing a couple. I know some of us were inspired by those ads to buy our first (of many) Ovations. Where are those ads now? We have great, talented artists like Serge looking to endorse and we get Nikki Sixx? So maybe a few Motley Crew fans will buy Ovations? Ovation needs to broaden it's advertisiing base to be taken seriously by the masses. |
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Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Where does Ovation spend Marketing dollars currently?
I see little to no evidence of any effort or dollars spent marketing. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | There's dead people on that list... are they trying to imply that they're still playing their Martin? |
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October 2004
Posts: 256
Location: chicago | yeah I know it infuenced me big time when i had the giant Larry Coryell poster add with him doing a seven fret stretch on his custom legend. |
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February 2003
Posts: 2177
Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | There's dead people on that list... are they trying to imply that they're still playing their Martin?
They also have people who one would not even associate with owning or playing a Martin. Reba McEntire?...Tiny Tim?...Mark Twain?? It's like if you're famous and you've just "brushed-up" against a Martin guitar.....you can get reconized on their list! |
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April 2003
Posts: 2503
Location: Fayetteville, NC | As has been stated. remember when Ovations were all over the place. it seemed they were in print ads in every major music publication and had artists like Heart, Kenny Loggins & Jim Messina, Cat Stevens, Paul Mccartney, Larry Coryell,heck even Bobby Goldsboro, Johnny Lee, Randy Travis(early on)David Cassidy,Michael Nesmith was even spotted at several shows playing an Ovation.
The point being that Not only were Ovations Visable on TV, in concerts and in Print as well. reputable studio Musicians Played them as well as some of the top stars of the time.
I just can't help but believe that Ovation could improve so much on the sales and also on the perception of just how great They are if they kept in mind a simple concept....
High Visibility can mean Higher potential dollars for the company... I realize there's more to it than just that,but the concept woked early on and should be used today. They would be wise to give Sergio some recognition. He plays Ovations in the studio and on the road.Sure he owns several other guitars, but he believes in Ovations and has always said so.Sounds Like a win-win situation for both Sergio and Ovation.
But What do I know...I'm just an idiot who works in radio for a living.. |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | ". . It's like if you're famous and you've just "brushed-up" against a Martin guitar.....you can get reconized on their list! . ."
. . . or get a Signature Model named after you. |
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March 2002
Posts: 389
Location: RI. That small State out East | Any time an "O" makes it on TV or a "large" stage...
A note from the "Mother Ship" to say, "Way To Go" We saw you...
Is smart business.
I would like to think that the OFC group could keep this list current and ALIVE!
In our next Q&A / Mother Ship Tour... It will be asked. How can "we" help support Ovation.
I think "we" should create the list and give the "Ship" a jump start.
Woz |
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Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 863
Location: Central Florida | Originally posted by Waskel:
There's dead people on that list... are they trying to imply that they're still playing their Martin? Lest we forget, Ovation isn't above using the dearly departed to endorse their product either. Remember the print ad for the 30th Anniversary Custom Legend? It featured no less than three names from the great beyond: Waylon Jennings, Eddie Rabbitt and Jim Croce. :eek: |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Keep going guys, maybe they'll listen to you. |
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December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | As I see it from a player and dealer's perspective, I really can't tell you where the guitars go. I know hundreds of LX guitars have been sold yet I am hard pressed to see any on tv aside from the apprentice. BUT they go somewhere and that is into the hands of players.
Ovations sell well in the Latin/jazz market, hawaiian music market, praise and worship market and for those that want a good guitar and just play in their home or around the campfire.
Why?? well I have my theories. If you are playing a gig in a small venue or a coffeehouse or a church you don't know what sort of POS PA FOH system you are going to have. YET it you plug in an Ovation you can get started and play with no to minimum tweaking of the instrument. This IMHO as a idiot that sells gear for a living makes it the best instrument to own hands down.
Pickups and Preamps and PAs have come a lightyear from where they were in the 70's and 80's where you saw all the major artists using Ovation or Adamas. Now they can process a guitar via a ton of million dollar gear to make it sound good with the right sound guy. So you can play any guitar you want and it can sound reasonable.
getting back to the issue at hand. I'm sure we all agree that serge is popular in his genre and in our group but does not have the same name recognition as al demiola, melissa, or richie sambucca or even kaki BUT why not a page that celebrates, the road warriors, the church people, the player that is out there making it happen over and over and over night after night. Sorta like a keep an eye on these players page. A page where they may not yet be an endorsee but a player of recognition.
This is the way to NURTURE interest in the guitar via guitarists that are out there playing the toilets of america (and other countries) to make music and make it happen.
I am sure that serge pulls some weight in the Latin/jazz community just like kaki pulls weight in the two hand tap bong style guitar playing community, etc. The establishment of a place to recognize and celebrate players could help to boost sales and public recognition.
The way I see it, there are few fence sitters with ovations, you either love them or hate them, but if you love them you are more tolerant of other brands and if you hate them you are not. more awareness via people that actually play the guitars and are not just a name may be the key to brand rspect.
Unfortunately Kaman music corp is a huge company and Ovation is only one of their thousands of sku's that they stock.we love them and it hurts us to see our beloved guitars not get respected but from an artist relations standpoint it is only one product they have to push and if someone wants a Tak because it fits or performs better for them then that is what they get.
I disagree with how many things are handled with the company but I don't work there, I am just an idiot that loves, plays and sells them. My opinion is only that an opinion. But I think that establishing credibility in the coffeehouse crowd and the singer songwriter crowd much like trailor did would have to boost brand recognition and desireablilty. Some sort of page of up and coming artists may just be a baby step to the overall goal of guitar (or make that MI ) domination. LOL |
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Joined:
February 2003
Posts: 2177
Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | "We" can help support Ovation BUT......Ovation's AR people need to get off their lazy arse's and earn their salaries and get NEW (Well Respected) musicians and in DIFFERENT musical genres......not just the tattooed,pierced,hardrock crowd..... web page
I don't mean to imply that there aren't well respected and talented artist in the tattooed,pierced,hardrock crowd but of the 55 "artist" mentioned on Ovation's artist page....I only reconize/heard of about 8-10 people/bands(Maybe I need to get out more....) |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Al, you've really got to stop referring to yourself as "just an idiot who sells guitars for a living".
You are not just an idiot. You're ours.
You're also a pretty good guitar player. :D |
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March 2002
Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | This is an interesting discussion and one that the corporate office really needs to read.....
The type of ads that Taylor runs (I've talked about this before) are geared not to the performing superstar but to the people who play on the front porch and in small venues. Ovation needs let the world know that their guitars are built (and always have been built) for the working men and women, who want a great sounding, real world, guitar that can either be played on the front porch or plugged in at the local gig.
In the 1950's Fender also used this type of marketing, building a guitar that was not expensive, but was great for the gigging musician. Ovation needs to go after this type of market. Not just talking about how great the LX is in their ads, but showing why it's great and who is using it -- not superstars, but the average gigging player. Jeez, we just had a posting on the board about a local player who had a Taylor 12, heard a LX 12 and sold the Taylor for the LX. Stuff like that needs to be talked about.
I realize that Ovation is selling every LX they can build, but is the goal to just build to current capacity, or is it to increase capacity and build the company?
What the f*&k do I know? I'm just a professional thug who has a degree in marketing and 20 years experience running his own company...... |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | If the marketing people are interested in the Williamsburg / Brooklyn scene, I recommend this:
http://www.thedelimagazine.com/us.htm
I'm sure they'll send them a copy
According to my wife who analyses companies, Kaman isn't that big, so, I believe they should be nimble enough to adapt.
As for the latin market, Serge would be a great fit on the jazz / instrumental end, without doubt. Then if I were in marketing, I'd go after someone in the Border Music / Nortena area, then a mariachi player. That would be a pretty good base for the mexican market. I know they play guitars in mexico.
I don't think the people in marketing are lazy, we just have very lofty expectations for them and they're up against a fickle market and strong competation. For instance, I got to try those Babicz guitars and watch out (on the other hand Hamer has nothing to worry about from Peavey or Brian Moore) It's probably pretty tough because no matter what you do you're going to make someone unhappy. |
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Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 863
Location: Central Florida | I note at least one other glaring omission in those artist pages... Glen Campbell!
Granted, he may not be a "hot" artist these days in terms of airplay and sales, but he is well respected among other guitarists, and he is about to be inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame. But, beyond all that, he's THE guy who put Ovations on the map! Not to mention that while many of the other artists on those pages play Ovations off and on, Glen has remained loyal for nearly 40 years. I think, at the very least, he's deserving of some sort of "Endorsee Emeritus" status, or something along those lines. |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | In the same vein, Martin, Taylor, and Gibson all seem to put on a little meet & greet / demo type event at my local music store. Just by chance these seem to happen during the holiday buying season.
Hamer came in and did their thing...why not Ovation? There would be a ton of OFC support and assistance if they did. |
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Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 793
Location: Texas | Thanks to all for your kind words and support.
I can only speak for myself, but of course there are many great unknown players that play Ovations and are not on their Artist list.
I believe there are many aspects around this endorsement issue and the artist/company relationship.
The reality is that guitar companies are in the business of selling guitars, that is their main goal, and of course because we love Ovations we want to see our favorite players rave about them and play them just like in the past.
But Sheriff Al has a point about pluggin in now, so many pickups and preamps that any guitar can be amplified as oppose to the past when Ovation was the only way to go.
My viewpoint is simple, I hate that guitar snobs think Ovations are just plastic crap guitars and that if you play one is because you can not afford a real guitar, so what I want to see is the company putting the good models in the hands of todays real players, people that can play and have spent their life learning the instrument not just jumping up and down on stage posing with them. I am happy to say that when I play my Ovations, nobody gives me any shit about it, on the contrary, they are surprised at how it sounds when I play it.
Most of the roadwarriors I have seen in hotels lobbys and churches play Celebs and Applausse models, because they are cheap and they sound good plugged in, and unfortunetly that is what most guitar snobs see, the cheap import products.
Now, I know it is not easy to find an instrumental player with the status and chops of a Di Meola wanting to switch to an Ovation and Adamas and wanting to do workshops in the areas where he plays etc, that is why I am interested, because I already do it anyway and have done it for many years, briefley with Taks and other guitars, mainly Maldonados, an expensive Spanish maker of very fine guitars but they are a bitch to amplify, outboard preamps etc, I rather play a no hassle Country Artist.
If we play in San Francisco, Santa Fe, etc, we always try to do a workshop with the support of the local Flamenco Society or local acoustic store, and we get great players that are mostly into real playing, like Django stuff and bluegrass and New Flamenco etc, they want to learn new stuff and they are always interested in what kind of guitar we are playing, and most of the time there is at least one or two people that would buy it if the model I play is at the store.
I play mainly nylon strings with a pick, lead lines and rhythms as well, and the main reason I play nylon strings is because I also play hand rhythms that I have learn from flamenco and latin music that I could not play on a steel string, I would have no right hand fingers, but I also play a steel string, but it is a special kind of high playing a plugged in nylon string guitar, loud.
So it is a mutual support, I play your guitar and you help with promotion, the main goal for the company is to sell guitars and for me is to sell CDs and to get as many people to come to my show.
My current goals as a recording artist are mostly musical, I want to be a better player, play better in time, have a better touch, concentrate on being a good sideman when playing with my band or when I play with other bands, etc. So my instrument of choice is very important, as an instrumentalist it is my voice.
So, how can I see all the new Ovation and Adamas models locally to choose one to play? if there is not 1 store that has them? I can't, so I have to play all my vintage Ovations and just see photos of the new ones and read here about people buying them.
Kinda sad but, I am just 1 of many, I am sure. |
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