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Location: SoCal | I was in the local GC today and as usual, the USA Ovations are high on the wall (they had a good selection of LX's -- you just couldn't play them without help getting them down) and the cheap ones were down low. This time I tracked down the store manager and asked how come I could play $3k Martins, Taylors, Gibsons, etc, but the only Ovations I could play were cheap imports? Hell, they've had an LX 12 string up high in corner for about 4 months. Nobody's going to buy it if they don't know about it and can't play it.
He told me that this was a problem to him as well, and that the corporate office dictated that the guitars were up on the walls in areas by price breaks. Cheaper guitars down low and more expensive ones up high. That doesn't explain the high end acoustic room. I told him that quite honestly, I've got Ovations at home that would knock the socks off of most of what what in the high end room (1537, 87 Collectors, Big Blue). He suggested that I call the Guitar Center corporate office. So I thought I'd pass along the number. If enough of us call......
818/735-8800
Let's make a few phone calls and complain. |
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Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | What explains the high end acoustic room is that everybody knows that the classy Martins, Taylors and Gibsons deserve their own room!!! (finger down throat gagging)
Seriously, it's obvious that if you can't play a guitar, you won't buy it, and that is probably why the high-end room exists. That logic worked on me when our local GC accidentally put their first 2005 Collectors in with the Martins/Taylors/Gibsons. If I couldn't have played it, I wouldn't have bought it.
They put the second 2005 Collectors up high....and it's still there, five months later......
Roger |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Interesting response. My local GC has all the Ovation LX's mounted head high and chest high when you walk into the acoustic room. They have a wall full of them with the cheaper models on floor stands. Across the room is the "high end" room which has the Martins, Taylors, and the new offering in the sub $1000 range, "The Pinnacle". |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Think of the high end room as high end in price. If Ovations cost $1500. - $3000. they would be in that room. I personally think Ovation would sell more of their upper end guitars if they charged more for them. If the Custom Legend cost $2500. it would get the credit it deserves. As dumb as this sounds, to the vast majority of buyers an Ovation can not sound as good as a Martin because it doesn't cost as much. Dave |
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| Just increadible ain't it? Logic goes right out the door when it comes to Ovations. We have three local shops that sell Ovations Two have dealership status one is a great little mom & Pop shop that always seems to have some interesting used Ovations Ric's and Gibsons! Not quite sure how they do this. Anyway the two "dealers" have a similiar setup as GC they have an acoustic room no Ovations in there! THey hang outside in the same area as all the used electric & acoustic guitars. The other store has Ovations but they do not have a seperate section like all the Martin,s & Taylor's The Ovations including the one Newer model Adamas they have hang in a line with the low end traditional and even the cheaper Fenders and etc.
My take on this ....IF anyone is listening at the Mothership???????????????? Send your salesmen or perhaps Corporate reps out to as many of your dealers as you can and shake the proverbial monkey tree a bit! I'll bet Taylor and Martin make sure these dealers do not put their guitars in poor sales areas. In fact I'd bet these reps have gone as far as to suggest to these dealers to set the Ovations off to the side and make them look like second rate equipment.
That's just my take on it,
My real problem is all the idiots who sell on ebay that only accept Paypal only as a payment option????? How stupid is this??????????????
Money is Money, what is the hurry? Why would anyone limit those who may want to bid by not accepting all normal forms of payment. Yes I have a Paypal Account but I do not keep much of a ballance in there. Just baffeled by this phenomenon!
Randy |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Randy,
If you've dealt with a lot of the idiot buyers on ebay, you know it's nice to get the dough right away. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Randy, I'm not trying to second guess your opinion wrt PayPal. But I don't follow your logic. You HAVE a PayPal account. But you don't keep much balance in it, that's fine. But if you win an auction and pay by money order, you have to go to the bank/store to buy the money order, right? So why is it any harder to instead just transfer that money into your PayPal account and complete the purchase using PayPal? Just curious, not trying to question your motives. Dave |
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Location: Tennessee | Do as Moody says and give them a call, or ...
email them. I had some issues and sent of a couple of nastygrams to the senior execs and I got nearly instantaneous response. These guys were on it and gave me a lot more confidence in Guitar Center as an organization. In fact, I bought some more stock as a result and it has tripled in 5 years.
So try these: Marty Albertson - CEO marty@guitarcenter.com
Maxx Galster - EVP of Stores mgalster@guitarcenter.com
Peter Schuelzky - SVP of Regional Sales pschuelzky@guitarcenter.com
State your opinion clearly, succinctly and try not to inject emotions into it. These guys will respond and get on it. They may not give you the anser you want, but they will listen and do the right thing. Chances are, they have no idea this is even an issue. It's our chance to make it one. Customer opinions mean far more to them than anything Ovation's marketing and sales team can ever express. |
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Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by Standingovation:
to the vast majority of buyers an Ovation can not sound as good as a Martin because it doesn't cost as much. Dave Yup. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Ours are almost all on one wall. There is no high end acoustic room. They are mixed around. The only problem lately is that they have so many cheap guitars on stands, you can't get to the ones on the wall.
I just figured that even thought the policy is to let you pick up and play whatever you want, they wanted you to ask for help to reach the really expensive ones.
Played a nice old Balladeer today. Great sound. |
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| Well Again I don't keep much of a balance in there I actually got robbed once! Yep Paypal made good on it but it took about three months to get my $350 back! No matter what anyone thinks about modern technology, firewalls and security protection; when you money is gone and they make you prove you had it, and did not take it yourself you'll have the same low opinion of it as I do in a hurry.
My point is nothing to do with easier or not I think we all know it's easier to use electronic funds transfers. My problem lies in the fact that if your selling a product why in gods name would you limit who can buy it?? I mean if your a guitar shop and a guy comes in to pay for a guitar and all he has is a credit card....well would'nt it be stupid not to be set up to take credit cards? and if you are set up for it would'nt it be even dumber to not accept them?
I mean really, there are still many many people who do not have a paypal account. If you found an Ovation on ebay and the only payment they will accept is bidpay... would you question the seller about taking another form of payment (hell money is money right?) or would you sign right up and get a bidpay account. I feel the seller has a foolish policy myself.
Now if your insinuating that all people who use money orders are shifty then your mistaken. And yeah I have had to wait for payment many times but only very rarely have they not shown up in the end. The other problem is it takes three business day's to transfer money into the account. By then the seller could have his money order cashed.
Just my thoughts bitter as they may be. Makes for conversation I guess.
Randy |
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Location: south east Michigan | I bet the GC executives would beg to differ with the opinion that Ovations are not well displayed.
This display is just outside of the acoustic room but it has it's own "steel wall" backdrop, informational plaques, and is placed in a high traffic area. I bet that GC is very happy with the under $1000 nitch that Ovation covers for them. And I bet Kaman is happy with the volume going to GC and MF.
As much as we want to find an AD-II or an Adamas on the wall, GC is just not interested in high end Ovations. The local store manager told me as much. Think about it. Do they want to have an AD-II that sells for $1500 next to an 800 series Taylor that that will sell for more than twice as much? If the folks who would never think about buying a guitar that is not in the "high end" room were given the chance to do a fair comparsion the people in Hartford would have even more to handle.
I had an idea to set up and man an "Ovation Fan Club" table for a day at our local GC just to see what responce it would get. But on a second thought it would be kind of "out there" a step and a half to far.
Now if you address a real problem....I got my holiday season Elderly catalog. Ovation has only one half of one page. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | But Brad, how exactly is someone supposed to get to (what appears to be) the Elite LX and the Legend 12 LX hanging on the wall ??? Those are probably the nicest two guitars in the photo, yet are totally out of reach. Luckily the Celeb 6 string is front and center, not to mention the double neck. Dave |
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Location: south east Michigan | I know we are not happy with it. But they are.
Want to spend an a few hours at an Ovation Fan Club display table with me???
"I'd love to change to world...but I don't know what to to." |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Brad, that looks very similar to our store, except there are 2 rows of Ibanez on the floor. They have too many guitars. I'll have to tell them that so they give me a couple. |
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Location: SE Michigan | Sorry Northcountry, I know it pisses you off but I am one of those "Paypal Only" Ebay sellers. You may be honest and straight up, but there are so many scams, and variations on scams, and twists on the variations. Paypal when used with a Visa card = protection. It's like an Ebay condem.
As far as Guitar Center and their display practices go, they would sell and display horse turds if they could make money at it. Do you really think they care whether they sell a Taylor or Squire or a Celebrity or a Legend? They are retail whores, all they want is cash flow.
The only thing we can do at the OFC is talk to store sales people and encourage people to try out the higher end O's. The rest is up to the mother ship, and I am beginning to wonder how badly they (the mother ship) wants to sell high end O's. |
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Location: North Texas | Too many Os. I don't think I'd wade through that pile. They all kinda look the same, anyway. In a way, I think the display cheapens the product, visually. Guitars R Us store. |
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| No problem I'll get over it I often just do not bid on those auctions. It ain't like I take the time to email every seller about it. It generally just seems funny to me that a seller would limit the amount of bidders on an auction??? The whole point is to make money or it would not be for sale? Right? If you have two or three people who can't or won't bid because you don't want to wait for a money order then your simply loosing money. Now that's bad business sense. As the seller your protected already? I don't see the issue if you sell something the buyer has to send you the money beofore you mail the item. So how can you get scammed? I've sold hundered of items some for over $10,000 on ebay? Money orders cash just fine for me?
Anyway, no matter, it's just an observation that leaves me confused but then again many things often do?????
Man hard to get to or not those Ovation sure look good in a group like that! Impressive to say the least.
Randy |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | BTW, last weekend I ate at Chumley's in NYC. It's a former speakeasy and pretty nice place. The first thing you see when you enter is a sign that says "Cash Only - NO Credit Cards". Didn't seem to hurt their business at all. I don't have a problem with "PayPal Only" on eBay and 99.9% of time prefer it. I think it's the safest method of making and receiving payments. Other will disagree. The potential buying market on ebay is so huge that I doubt PayPal Only auctions turn away much business at all. Dave |
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Location: SE Michigan | Northcountry, the reasons I dont want money Orders are:
(1) I have to wait for the buyer to get a MO, then wait for snail mail to deliver it. All this time my item is off the market and the buyer may back out, and I am left waiting.
(2) Money orders can bounce, I have read numerous accounts of sellers getting screwed, that even a week after deposit a money order has a problem and bounces.
(3) When I do get a money order, I have to go out of my way to go deposit the damn thing into my bank. With Paypal I can move funds around right from my laptop.
(4) People who dont have charge cards and Paypal accounts usually represent the bottom of the economic barrel (bad credit scores, etc.,). Not to be a snob, but I only want to sell to people who will pay promptly and hassle-free.
A fast easy sale and prompt payment along with the buyer and seller protection is well worth the small percentage paypal charges. |
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Location: SoCal | At my local Guitar Center (La Mesa, CA), they have US Ovations in the acoustic room, courteous and helpful sales staff, etc. They will take anything down from the wall for me. Sure, in 2004, they had the 30th Anniv CL way up high - didn't take long before it was in a very prominent position (eye level, eventually sold five.) The 30th CL bumped a couple of nice older Martins. Sure, the "high end" room has Martin, Taylor, and a couple of Gibson but you get to it through the acoustic room. And, I notice a reluctance of many to spend any time in the "high end" room. US Ovations have the majority of space in the acoustic room.
They have several small "quiet" rooms where you can take the guitar into.
Sure, have to walk through an obstacle course of amps, guitars on stands, and kids playing Fenders, Epiphones, Ibanez, Celebs, etc. to get to the acoustic and "high end" room.
When Ovation has come out with a display (i.e., the LX), placed it in a prominent position near the acoustic room. At least several of the sales staff go to NAMM each year and have checked out the Ovation offerings.
So, don't have much to criticize...especially when I haven't bought a guitar from them. Yet, as Al knows, I have bought a number of O's & A's from him.
GC is a business...majority of guitars are in the $300-$600 range. Yet, they give us a fair amount of quality space to display guitars in the mid to upper range. Don't blame the retailer for placing the US Ovations to Martins in a more controlled area (acoustic & high end). None of us would want to buy a guitar that was scratched by 12-18 year olds that spent their Saturday afternoon at a guitar store.
Only critique of this store is that there are no Adamas...a U681T or a reissue would have been a good measure against the Martin/Taylor grouping. Yet, with reissues limited to 100, may not have been practical for GC to bother.
Again, although I would like to see "our" guitars take a more prominent position, I haven't bought from them. Wonder how many OFC'ers would... |
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Location: Le Havre (France) | Hello everybody !
It is fun to read you complaining about the difficulty to access to an Ovation hung too high on the wall or behind other stuffs !
Why is it funny ?
Because in France, when you enter a GC with the thinking of "today I'll test a LX / let's try the new Collector / how damn could sound the Adamas anniversary models", well the best attitude is : keep out ! Stay in the street !
Because you'll be very disappointed !!
There is no Ovation (I don't even mention Adamas :D ) in french GC !
When you find one, it's low price enter models...
There's nearly only one shop where you can see Ovation and Adamas guitars : it is in Paris.
For example, I never played the 2005 Collector ! Because never seen !
Last WE, I was very happy because I had the chance to play on two Adamas Anniversary (1581-5 and U681T-5).
Finding an Adamas in a GC is like finding a pearl in an oister !!!
:D
EDIT : by the way, I agree with Tony. I bought all my guitars out of GC's. My post was just to try to show you how it is on the other side of Atlantic ;) |
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| Had to edit that one! Enough is Enough!
Brian you might want to edit your comment about those who are not as economically uppercrusted enough to have a paypal account! Not Cool Dude. I'll leave this one at that. whistle, whistle, whistle,..........
So anyway how bout those Ovations in the store?????????
Randy |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I just bought 2 guitars from GC after being a regular visitor since the first of the year. Both were low end guitars for 2 beginners. They don't really try to sell the O's here. I could probably sell more when I'm in there than they do. They don't tune them either. I tell them I'm going to start charging them to tune their Ovations.
Most of the salesman are kids who like the electric stuff. They also sell to a lot of kids and beginners, so they cater to their market. |
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Location: SE Michigan | I have an idea, from now on when any member of the OFC visits a Guitar Center, lets make it a point to ask to play one of the higher end Ovation models from up on the wall, then when the sales person leaves the area, put it in the high-end acoustic room! If we keep doing it maybe GC will just give up and leave them there!
And Northcountry, I dont know what I said that is offensive, you were the one all upset about Paypal-only. I am just telling you the truthful reasons why sellers do this. And it's not about being upper-crusty, it's about being responsible! Almost anyone can open a Paypal account. |
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Guitar Center -- bah
