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Shutting Down the Tab Sites

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stephent28
Posted 2005-12-17 1:30 AM (#125823)
Subject: Shutting Down the Tab Sites



Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13288

Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066
and the record companies and affilitates wonder why we hate them........

Going after the tab sites
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Jeff W.
Posted 2005-12-17 6:52 AM (#125824 - in reply to #125823)
Subject: Re: Shutting Down the Tab Sites


Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039

Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub
These folks need to stop seeing the internet as a threat and embrace it. C'mon move into the 21 century.
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ignimbyte
Posted 2005-12-17 7:44 AM (#125825 - in reply to #125823)
Subject: Re: Shutting Down the Tab Sites


Joined:
July 2004
Posts: 812

Location: Hicksville, NY
I truly agree with you there Jeff. While I may use the web to obtain lyrics and chords for some of the songs that I like to learn (or try to learn), in the end however, I still end up in the music store to purchase the sheet music. The Internet is not there to replace the publishing company of printed music, but to co-exist as a resource for the musician or music enthusiast in mind.
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Designzilla
Posted 2005-12-17 8:18 AM (#125826 - in reply to #125823)
Subject: Re: Shutting Down the Tab Sites


Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 2150

Location: Orlando, FL
The labels are kicking themselves in the ass again by pissing off a large group of consumers of their product.

They need to find a way to help their customers, not look for new fights to pick with them. When I want to learn a song, my first step is to BUY THE SONG.

Grow or die people!
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Northcountry
Posted 2005-12-17 8:25 AM (#125827 - in reply to #125823)
Subject: Re: Shutting Down the Tab Sites
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487

I always thought it was aspiring musicians and working cover bands that were considered one of the greatest contributing factors to a big bands successful marketing of a new CD or back in my day "Album"! Now if the cover bands aren't promoting your music for free and the minions of musicians who want to learn this stuff are not able to find tab or other outlets cheap then they will not be working on your music and the whole structure starts to crumble. But hey what do I know ........Al is just a guy who sells guitars for a living.

Randy :D
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Jeff W.
Posted 2005-12-17 8:29 AM (#125828 - in reply to #125823)
Subject: Re: Shutting Down the Tab Sites


Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039

Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub
Originally posted by Designzilla:
Grow or die people!
....in the immortal words of George Land....
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Old Applause Owner
Posted 2005-12-17 11:06 AM (#125829 - in reply to #125823)
Subject: Re: Shutting Down the Tab Sites


Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 1922

Location: Canton (Detroit), MI
Guess I'll stop purchasing music and figure it all out myself from now on.....so much purchased music is CRAP anyway.

"I'm an outlaw....with a six-string gun....."

Roger
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Omaha
Posted 2005-12-17 1:26 PM (#125830 - in reply to #125823)
Subject: Re: Shutting Down the Tab Sites


Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 1126

Location: Omaha, NE
Short sighted wankers.

Remember Smith Corona typewriters? They were perfectly positioned to OWN the computer printer market, but they were too stupid to look beyond the "computers are a threat to our typewriter business" mindset. Now they are nothing.

Sony was perfectly positioned to OWN the on-line music business, but they were too stupid to look past their existing sales channel. Now Apple and others own the new on-line channel. More short sighted idiocy.

Jeff
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Prairie Dog
Posted 2005-12-17 1:51 PM (#125831 - in reply to #125823)
Subject: Re: Shutting Down the Tab Sites


Joined:
July 2005
Posts: 150

Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
What goes around comes around with these greedy idiots masquerading as music companies and music publishing. Reference the recent Sony copy protection and software boondoggle all to be sure that they not only control copying, but so they could also affect sales of their (inferior) portable music players. Both actions of a desperate company with more than one major product category lunch that has been snatched by the rest of the electronics world. I buy literally hundreds of CDs annually and purchased several of the copy controlled ones only to find out that it was impossible to load the tunes into my iTunes and iPod which I recently also acquired. Then to add insult to injury, nothing having anything to do with media in my players/burners in my computer functioned properly because of the quick time settings of the Sony spyware,etc. I was unable to use my iTunes for more than a month while I figured out how to un-install the crap from Sony. I will never again purchase anything from any artist on a Sony label again and I have lots of friends and engineers that work on Sony and affiliated labels so it will be difficult. The whole episode has totally killed a fondness for Sony products beginning in the early 70's for me. My household will be "Sony free" as soon as possible as a result. One must wonder why a company would so recklessly disregard existing and potential customers when their business in general is fragile to begin with? No marketing, just greed.

These companies don't even consider the repercussions of their "witch hunts". Going after the tab sites is another act of desperate companies. They don't know what to do as artists let their contracts expire and make independent records or go to smaller labels who are not greedy. Just look at new releases in the stores; a wasteland. (Major labels are more than ever just giving us lowest common denominator crap that is still overpriced no matter where you purchase it). Then check out independent releases and it is a breath of fresh air. I go look at those tablature sites once in a while and use 'em to learn a tune, but I too end up buying sheet music or songbooks, which Heaven help us, we must not copy either lest some 23 year old publishing executive will recommend that we go to jail 'cause we gave a copy to the bass player. Maybe that guy would be better advised on figuring out how to make a piece of sheet music cost a buck or two instead of the stupid expensive prices charged now. The good Doctor Thompson's quote was true you know: "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where pimps and thieves run free and good men die like dogs. There is also a negative side." For right now, the whole music business deserves what is happening to it, 'cause it's all their own doing.

All right now. Hope I have not frightened anyone, but the topic hit a nerve.
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schroeder
Posted 2005-12-17 1:56 PM (#125832 - in reply to #125823)
Subject: Re: Shutting Down the Tab Sites


Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 4413

Exactly what he said. Exactly.
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Omaha
Posted 2005-12-17 2:31 PM (#125833 - in reply to #125823)
Subject: Re: Shutting Down the Tab Sites


Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 1126

Location: Omaha, NE
One more other thought...

I hate the nature of the sheet music that is available. Most of the time, all you get are piano and vocal parts, with guitar chords. That does me no good.

Now, if a music company wants my business, they will sell music that has guitar tabs AS PLAYED BY THE ARTIST. If they aren't selling that, what good is the music to me? I may as well go onto OLGA and have the benefit of having someone else work it out by ear first. I'll take that version, work on it, and come up with one of my own.

If they want my money, they need to deliver some value.

Jeff
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cliff
Posted 2005-12-17 5:17 PM (#125834 - in reply to #125823)
Subject: Re: Shutting Down the Tab Sites


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14836

Location: NJ
Some of the Hal Leonard versions of various albums include tab (at least some of the more "guitar-oriented" ones). I'd picked up Clapton's "Me & Mr. Johnson" a while back, and it's all in tab . . .

The only problem I find with OLGA sometimes is that even though it's "posted" it might not neccesarily be correct. Your often subject to how much of a "cloth ear" the person posting it has.
(Did I use that term correctly, "mates"?? :-)
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BrianT
Posted 2005-12-17 6:49 PM (#125835 - in reply to #125823)
Subject: Re: Shutting Down the Tab Sites


Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 338

Location: SE Michigan
When I buy CD's or song books I usually find them on Ebay for pennies-on-the-dollar. The internet and TAB sites were a huge boost to my personal guitar playing, I have picked up and expanded my material many times over since I started really getting into the internet.

The horse is out of the barn as far as music publishing goes. Even if they succeed in shutting down some of the sites, others will pop up.

I also agree with all the comments about Sony. I bought a Sony mini-disk player only to find I can not copy many songs from my PC onto it, songs that I purchased legitimately from sites like Walmart.com. That really pissed me off. I agree, no more Sony products for me or my family either.
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Omaha
Posted 2005-12-17 7:49 PM (#125836 - in reply to #125823)
Subject: Re: Shutting Down the Tab Sites


Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 1126

Location: Omaha, NE
Originally posted by cliff:
The only problem I find with OLGA sometimes is that even though it's "posted" it might not neccesarily be correct.
That's right. Most of the OLGA stuff is best described as an amateur's intepretation of a song. Which it seems to me would give music publishers a problem if they try to go after them legally. How can I be prevented from posting a message to a discussion group that says "here's how I play this song"?

Jeff
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dmkozak
Posted 2005-12-18 9:44 AM (#125837 - in reply to #125823)
Subject: Re: Shutting Down the Tab Sites


Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 232

Location: Phoenix, AZ
Originally posted by Omaha:
That's right. Most of the OLGA stuff is best described as an amateur's intepretation of a song. Which it seems to me would give music publishers a problem if they try to go after them legally. How can I be prevented from posting a message to a discussion group that says "here's how I play this song"?

Jeff
I wonder the same thing myself. Actually, wouldn't the interpretation be the interpreter's intellectual property? And, would the interpreter's posting, effectively, release any rights the interpreter has to his interpretation, leaving me and others free to use his interpretation?

I am waiting for people to band together, pool their money, and use this and similar arguements against the MPA. Maybe, everyone posting their interpretations, excepting the lyrics which are provided only for a frame of reference, should copywrite the same and then release the copywrite. If they're not profiting, I don't know if the MPA could prevent use of the copywritten lyrics for reference purposes only.

I fully understand the copywrite violation of posting the published music/songsheet, but I have yet to see a complete published music or songsheet in a tab site.
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Northcountry
Posted 2005-12-18 10:18 AM (#125838 - in reply to #125823)
Subject: Re: Shutting Down the Tab Sites
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487

Yep What Jeff said Sheet music is almost worthless to me. My keyboard player is always complaining because he can only seem to play when he has music in front of him? I find this amazing having never learned to read a note. Yet he tells me the written music usually follows the guitar and it is not what the guitarist is playing it is just a basic chord notation. THe expensive shet music is nothing more than a guide that you will have to rewrite in order to use it.
Non of it does me any good. anyway. I always play around with the strings until I find the simplest place to do a run that will place me as close to the next chord I will need to strike at the end. This takes forever sometimes but when I find it I remember it forever as well.

I know I can see the record industries complaints... I know if I wrote some fantastic music and for the first time in my life had a product that might be valuable to me in the form of a music CD and I found out all my creative efforts are being sent across the internet as free to the taking. I'd be a little less than pleased. As for the rest of the producers complaints they are just seeing the writting on the wall. But all this open transfering if information could ultimatly stop musicans from making great music! Why bother right...there ain't no money in it! I say they should make a huge fine for any web site that is downloading music less than one year new. and the fines go to the producers and musicians them selves? Perhaps this is naive? but it seems there must be some way to track the culprits and this may help to keep the music industry and the musicians who we love to listen to alive and kickin.

Randy
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BrianT
Posted 2005-12-18 10:40 AM (#125839 - in reply to #125823)
Subject: Re: Shutting Down the Tab Sites


Joined:
January 2004
Posts: 338

Location: SE Michigan
The music industry had better wake up and realize that the Jinnee is already out of the bottle and you can’t get it back in. With computers and the Internet and hundreds of different nations involved there is no way you will ever litigate people into complying with copyright laws. It’s just too darn easy to duplicate and move electronic data these days.

Like someone mentioned about the Smith-Corona Type-Writer company missing the boat, foolish companies will cling to the past while smart companies will find a way to embrace and profit from the future. Why aren’t there legitimate licensed TAB or sheet music sites where I can download legitimate material? (Maybe there are such sites I and just don’t know about them).

Like others have said, open TAB sites often have butchered versions of songs that are flat out wrong. I wouldn’t mind paying a REASONABLE fee (say 2 or 3 bucks) for an accurate, licensed, and professional copy of a song.

But instead the music publishers still seem hell-bent on publishing the old glossy music books that cost 20 bucks or more a piece, and then I have to drive to a music store that probably has a limited selection anyway.

I for one will dance a jig on the grave of the old-school music industry.
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Omaha
Posted 2005-12-18 11:00 AM (#125840 - in reply to #125823)
Subject: Re: Shutting Down the Tab Sites


Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 1126

Location: Omaha, NE
Ok, last post for me on this.

What bothers me the most here is the blind stupidity of the music industry. I am a businessman. I own my own company. My ability to survive is based on my ability to see a market need, and then fill it. That's how you make money.

In the current context, any decent businessman would look at OLGA etal and say "hey! There is real demand for guitar tablature out there". Instead, the pin headed lawyers at the music companies see OLGA and think "UNLICENSED COPY!!! SUE!!! SUE!!! SUE!!!".

To what end? There is no money at OLGA. There is nothing to recover. They might succeed in shutting down the site, but how does that do them any good?

What I see is an opportunity to create the "iTunes of Tab" site. It is obvious from this thread that people will gladly pay money (I'd guess between $2 and $4 per song) for a PROFESSIONALLY produced, accurate and complete tab of a song.

It is insane that the music companies would rather punish their fans (after all, it is the fans that are creating, sharing and downloading all the 'bootleg' tab) than make more money.

Stupidity is infuriating.

Jeff
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