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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I may very well regret this in the morning.
Table of Contents:
Introduction
The Internet
Mission Statement
Moderators
The Old Guard
Newbies
Off Topic
Politics/Religion/Sex
Alter Egos
Where do we go from here?
Introduction:
This is just one man’s opinion and I’m not saying they are any more valid than any other member’s ideas. But I have been around here awhile and I have been active so please allow me a little leeway.
The Internet
It will help to understand my points if you use this analogy.
Think of the internet as the world. You hop on the highway, travel at the speed of light, and arrive at an address. Think of it as a typical house, on a typical street, in a typical town. You are invited in to this private house to sit down, chat, & enjoy what this unique home has to offer. It is not a podium in a public town square. It’s a place meant for a specific purpose. If you want politics, that’s two blocks down on the other side of the street. If you want to talk religion, it’s two houses down on the left.
And another thing about this house. It remembers everything you have ever said while you were in it. (Kinda like my wife! ;) )
Mission Statement
Ideally this site was meant to be about music, Ovation guitars, and the people who played them. And to be kind to each other. In the real world, after over 5000 members, and after many personal friendships have evolved, that ideal might vary. Just how much it varies should be a matter of concern, consideration and review.
Moderators:
This board is moderated. They were those two guys that opened the door for you when you came in off the street. They gave you a sheet with the ground rules for the house. This board is moderated so don’t be surprised if at times you are.... moderated. It’s not meant to be personal. It’s not an attack on your personal freedom of speech. It’s not a case for the Supreme Court. And it is certainly not an excuse to attack the moderator’s intelligence or way of life or accuse him of being a fascist nazi pig. He’s just the guy who is trying to keep a handle on what is going on in his house. He wants his party to go in a certain way. If you want the drunken frat house party it’s two streets over. The orgy? It’s three houses past that.
And there are other moderators that must be remembered and given the due respect and consideration. The folks at the factory, you know, the people responsible for the product that we love so much. The folks who’s job it is to run a professional, profitable business in a tough, competitive economy. They are the fine people who have given us unprecedented access to the purpose of our little club. The same people who taken some of our requests / dreams and made them into a reality.
The Old Guard:
Some members have been here a long, long time. To them even I am a “newbie”. The possible pitfall to that length of time at the wheel is that the Old Guard can fall into the “Heard it all before, Said it all before” mind set. Perhaps newbies would better grow into the club if one of us bit the bullet and answered the same question we have heard 2,398 times before about the tendency of the Ovation bowl to slip off the lap. I know it’s much easier to just say, “Do a search” but we have all had those type of questions ourselves at some time.
Let’s embrace those new minds full of mush and mold them to our liking. :D
Newbies:
Hopefully you were given a warm welcome soon after you first post. But be warned. You are coming fresh into a group with A LOT of history behind them. Be patient. It will take some time to get the feel of the place.
You may get the impression that the OFC is “clicky” and that there is an “in” crowd. Well… in a way you are right. But not “clicky” in the exclusion type of way and not “in” in a superior type of way. This is a group where members have traveled thousands of miles and have spent some big, big bucks to be with each other at many different types of occasions. This type of face to face gatherings breeds a higher level of friendship than can be had just out of a computer screen alone. So until you have made trips like that, or encouraged an OFC member through a serious illness, or anonymously and behind the scenes kicked in $20, $50, or $100 to help a family in need, don’t judge to harshly.
Off Topic:
With a group as old as this there has to be some level of off topic chatter to keep up the interest and because of the friendships that have grown. What concerns me lately is that the percentage of off topic stuff is rapidly growing. And much of it is coming from “newbies” who should still be more interested in the aspects of Ovation guitars than the mindless banter about _______ (fill in the blank).
You can say, “Well… don’t read it then!” The problem occurs when you have to pick through a number of posts to find one about guitars or music. And because the “Old Guard” goes off topic because of the level of familiarity, the newbies look at it as a free for all. Next thing you know we are looking more like a Howard Stern or Comedy Central fanclub rather than a guitar fanclub.
This can also happen mid-thread which makes it even harder for both the Old Guard and the Newbies to read and learn about Ovation guitars. For instance…. Andrew’s recent thread. Here a man comes on with a serious, heartfelt concern. It’s maybe one of the most serious threads written in the last 12 months. Within a few posts some suggests that someone tell a joke. From there the thread is a wash in extensive talk about the human digestive system. If I was Andrew and I checked back in to see how my serious thoughts were being received I just might find myself comforted with my decision to walk away from here.
Politics/Religon/Sex
Politics…. Please… not here. Despite the good intentions it never ends well. Go to the party 3 doors down. They love it there.
Religion…. More of a gray area. Praise and worship musicians are a big part of this board. And personally, I think they have been very tolerant. Perhaps tolerant to a fault with what goes on here but yet they stick around. I think the P&W members have shown much more care and consideration not to offend than the non P&W members.
Sex….. To be honest, as much as I love sex, I mean really love sex in it’s proper format, I’m getting tired of it here. The TV show Threes Company went on for years with T&A and sexual innuendo. I think the OFC makes Jack, Janet and Chrissy look like rank amateurs.
It’s not that I am offend or shocked, though I am sure some are. I’m more concerned with the bigger picture. How many women who would make a valuable addition to the OFC have been driven off? How many parents who have kids that are interested in guitars look at this board and say, “No way!” Do you post things that you would not want your wife or children to read? Do you post things that you would not speak out loud in a crowded shopping mall? If your response is, “Well if they can’t take a joke, than f&%k ‘em” please give it another thought.
Do you expect our friends at the factory to sift through all that nonsense in search of what features we might like for next years collectors series? Don’t you think it sad that and executive at Kaman cannot have his female secretary scan the board or him? Do you expect your requests and suggestions to still be taken seriously?
Now I’m not saying that we need to be reduced to the level of Mr. Rogers. There is nothing wrong with an occasional reference. But come on guys, let’s practice just a little moderation and consideration for others.
To sum it up, a “F^%$ YOU! YOU F*&KING F*&^WAD!” gets a smiley face while a simple “God Bless You” is looked on with scorn and suspicion. Is something wrong here?
Alter Egos:
We are probably not who we seem to be. Two reasons.
ONE…. When you read this you are perceiving it sifted though your own voice, ideals, agendas and prejudices. Most of you know me only as some flickering letters in a TV screen.
TWO… It might not be the real “us” making the post. Instead its that alter-ego, super-ego, Mr. Hyde guy. The guy who has had just about as much crap as he can take for the day and needs an outlet. The clown, the agitator, the tuff guy.
I have met a good number of OFC members face to face and have been surprised how different some of them are from their screen personna. And then there are some who are just what you would expect.
So..Where do we go from here?
First, thanks for hanging in with me. Instead of the usual 2 cents I have spent at least $189 and some change. I’m almost done.
Suggestions….
1) Let the moderators moderate. Expect the moderators to moderate. If need be, ASK the moderators to moderate.
2) If the owners of the house feel that they have to take you to task, be gracious. They will probably take the effort to do it in private. Respect that. They deserve at least as much respect as your best OFC buddy and lately they have been getting a hell of a lot less than that. I’m not saying that you have to kiss butt and worship at the alter of Miles and Al, just treat your hosts for what they are… your hosts.
3) Always concider the bigger picture. Take two steps back and think about what you are typing. Do you really want to say that to the folks at the factory? Do you really want member # 2874’s 13 year old daughter to read it? Is it really YOU making the post your crazy alter ego?
4) If 85% of your posting is not about guitars or music,is this really the place you want to be or is the OFC the only forum you know that will put up with it?
5) If the OFC makes you miserable and crazy and you are just not getting what you need, please….. walk away. It will be better for everyone.
6) Play your Ovation more often.
Thanks everyone.
I will now hit the “Add New Topic” button and hope for the best. |
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Joined:
March 2004
Posts: 629
Location: Houston, Texas | Holy smokes! You expect me to read all of that?
Ok. But it better be good. |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | It's a MANIFESTO.
It's supposed to be wordy. |
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August 2006
Posts: 2804
Location: ranson,wva | well done..that just ate up a good 3 1/2 mins to read..jason |
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Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Well thought out and well written...which leads me to one smartass retorical question.
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH THE REAL BRAD!
j/k unless this is really BrianT using your OFC name. |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | WHICH house was it again that's having the orgy??. . . |
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Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Cliff,
Just look for Jeff W hanging outside in a tree! |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | :D
So far I'm pleased with the responce.
Thanks |
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September 2004
Posts: 1180
Location: Vermont USA | Your a good man Brad. Well said
Paul (Pauly) |
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March 2002
Posts: 15652
Location: SoCal | I read it and boy is my mouth tired.....
Well said Bradley. |
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November 2002
Posts: 3599
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Very erudite, Brad. Thank you. I know something about group dynamics & social development, and true to form, and on schedule, this is it, folks.
People will decide, and they will reach a new equilibrium.
Just keep the dialogue open, and park your ego at the door.
AND, play your "O" til you reach higher consciousness, and serenity. |
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Joined:
March 2004
Posts: 629
Location: Houston, Texas | Brad, you make some very valid points. Over the last month or so things have definitely moved a bit closer to chaos than I've ever seen it here. And that does tend to be self-perpetuating. However, the entertainment factor is something that makes this board sort of unique and I think we would all feel the loss if that disappeared. But I agree that things probably need to be toned down a bit.
Now if I could only get THE picture out of my head. |
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Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4809
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Brad, I like what you wrote...even if it is a little too PC for my basic nature.
..............................................
Or maybe the hockey analogy. (A Canadian, even one like me who doesn't follow hockey, can make hockey an analogy for everything.)
The moderators are the ref and line officials. It is their game to call, yours to play. Argue with, or touch the ref, you're ejected from the game.
If the ref doesn't see it, it's not a penalty. You can ask the ref, once, for a call on the play. Ask again and you might get a bench penalty.
Some hitting, spitting, and swearing is expected. But if it's caught on camera, you'll look stupid.
It's just a game.
It's the greatest game in the world.
The guy you punched in the heat of the game?
You owe him a beer. |
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Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | sHIRLEY yOU dIDn't EXpecT ANy sERIous REsPONseS. |
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March 2002
Posts: 15652
Location: SoCal | Interesting that this could only go 11 posts before going off in an inane direction...... |
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August 2006
Posts: 3145
Location: Marlton, NJ | I like the lyrics... have you put it to music yet?
Seriously, while it is entertaining to read through some of the OT stuff, it does tend to go on a bit too long. Maybe there should be a whole other section just for OT stuff - stick it under SELL/TRADE on the menu bar. When you look under the S/T header, you're pretty certain to come across posts about selling/buying/trading. The YouTube thread is a perfect example - even though it's only a single thread. You go there and you know what you're in for.
FWIW,
Mike |
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August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | What JN said is what I would've said if I was better educated, and
Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
Interesting that this could only go 11 posts before going off in an inane direction...... It's now up to 15 replies and only one mention of guitars.
I've only been here for 16 months and only have 300 posts up my sleeve, and I think I'll ALWAYS be a newbie. I've gleaned a lot of information from other people, given information when I've known something, (rare, but hey...) and been thoroughly entertained by a lot of the off topic stuff.
I originally joined this board for information about my favourite possession, but now I find myself coming here for the entertainment value. I can't go somewhere else for that off topic banter as this board's got something that no other board has got, the OFC membership. What a bunch of silly, intelligent, welcoming, humble, arrogant and damn funny individuals. Oops, I left out GENEROUS.
And although I'm not a prude or PC, I can see the point about welcoming young children and females to the 'family' and I for one will in future endeavour to think more deeply about my choice of adjectives.
Bloody hard for an Australian, though! |
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Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 2150
Location: Orlando, FL | Wow! Life gets busy. I stay away for a while, and when I check back, Brad is posting a Manifesto? Brad you're not going Ova-bomber on us are you?
I am gonna have to start reading all the old threads to see what the hell happened. String tube accident resulting in a lawsuit maybe?
No serious injuries I hope! |
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November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Luv your heart, Brad.
That you took the time to write extensively to us, shows both, your commitment to this site and your expectation to be taken seriously as an active, concerned and might I add, cornerstone, member of this site which, is really the expression of a group of people who realize, the essence of this virtual community is made by people making REAL connections.
That being said..
I think the; "Don’t you think it sad that and executive at Kaman cannot have his female secretary scan the board for him?", is highly sexist?
Please, stop your assault on our female membership by relegating them to broad subordinate status... At least edit your Manifesto... As our female members may not be the same sort as we male members, but every bit, every bit*, our equals.
*(I was gonna say "every bit and more our equals," but I didn't want to offend the lesser bright of of our "species") |
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November 2005
Posts: 4809
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Clever Brad, I had to go back and read slowly. That was your intention, right?
Re: final bracketed sentence.
Are you trying to infer that your president actually hangs here with us!?  |
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Posts: 3408
Location: GA USA | Gave me a thing or two to consider. Thanks for taking the time, Kid. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Brad, two words...
THANK YOU.
I will read it again, but I'd like your permission to incorporate it into a more complete "who we are" statement I've thought about for awhile. It will be credited to you as I think it holds more weight not coming from the founders.
I think one small addition to work into the house analogy is that inside the hosts house everything you ever said is laying out and will be laying out for everyone in the future to read and re-read.
Again, unlike the soapbox on the corner where once you say your piece it's forgotten, or at least no record... here, everything you say, positive and negative, every praise, every fowl word, will be here for years to come. There's nothing quite like that sinking feeling you get when someone qoutes something very uncomplimentary you said 7 or 8 years earlier in haste that had no validity 5 minutes after it was said... but here you are.. 8 years later, getting it thrown in your face. Trust me, it's not pretty.
Well again thanks for the thoughts and taking the obvious time it must have taken to compose. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | Very thoughtful, Brad. You and Stonebobbo spend way too much time thinking. I'm glad that if somebody had to do it, it was you.
I have bought Ovations because of advice from this board, learned songs I gave up on 20 years ago because of help from this board, bought Ovations from this board, met up with a couple who happened to be in Boise, carried the Wooden Roundback to another board member and visited a few OFCers at their homes. Most importantly, this board is responsible for resurrecting my love for music that took a back seat to other things years ago. I have shared that love with my family and my 2 daughters now play guitar. All in less than 2 years since I found the OFC.
I didn't even mention the entertainment from reading what is often pure nonsense. I think it would be tough to find a website that has provided so much.
Now I need to stop. If I get as longwinded as Brad, he might catch me on the post count. |
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October 2005
Posts: 5327
Location: Cicero, NY | Uh, yeeah...(urp!) can someone pass me another Heineyken while this one plays out..?
Just kidding, Brad. As much as I'm as I'm probably as offensive as some and more than most, I would agree that sometimes all of us need to stand down and consider both our posts and our neighbors (including The Man) from time to time.
Good show. And I mean that sincerely. |
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August 2006
Posts: 3145
Location: Marlton, NJ | Mark - I didn't think about that aspect of it (long lost love of music) but that's the case with me as well. And like you, both of my sons are now playing the guitar - the older one has a show tomorrow at his highschool (all original songs) and the younger one is now a month into lessons and playing all the best parts of Layla, Crazy on You and Day Tripper.
And if I ever get the cajones up to sing I'll blame that on you guys too :eek: |
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The current state of the OFC / The Slipkid Manifesto
