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Joined:
June 2004
Posts: 580
Location: NW NJ | Originally posted by MWoody:
I'm with Dave. a line of separation needs to be made.
I have also found a way to "tip" my contour the way I like it - like the roundbacks! Mike - How do you get yours to tip. I figured out a way on the 2080, but I'm always looking for a better one!
I agree with the line of separation notion as well. But I'm afraid what I want and what Ovation will do are diametrically opposed. I bet in the not too distant future New Hartford turns into a custom shop and everything else comes from Asia, or wherever the next cheap labor force rises up. If that happens, I think we'll have lost something very, very special. Don't know how many new axes I'd ever have the urge to buy again ... :( |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Geez Robbie... Your harshin' my buzz! :cool:
That sure would be a worst case senario. |
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December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | Originally posted by cwk2:
Al, the wire rims would look good on your truck.
Can you get them from this guy? nope the guy sold them long ago and I was not aware of it. |
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December 2003
Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA | Q: Mike - How do you get yours to tip? I figured out a way on the 2080, but I'm always looking for a better one.
A: I wear a strap, hold the instrument up at about 2 O'clock and right forearm the bout until the contour edge digs into my ribs. |
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July 2004
Posts: 812
Location: Hicksville, NY | In an interview with CF Martin IV that I read a while back -- when asked about the quality of the low end Martins with the high end ones -- he replied that he had said to people that the D-15 was the best bargain in the world, and that it's basically the same as a D-45 without the pearl inlays. Basically, it's "the same" guitar.
IMHO, in addition to the famed round backs, also make the contour bowls available to all high and low end Ovation and Adamas guitars. If the same quality control and the treatment to building, for example, a low-end balladeer is the same as that of a high-end custom legend, then that assures the buying public that every Ovation that they get their hands on is a very high quality instrument -- regardless of price. :)
here's the link about that interview with CF Martin IV:
http://www.modernguitars.com/archives/001426.html |
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Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | My D-15S (slothead) arrived today at Al's (trade plus $'s for Al's 2006C). The slothead D-15 is far and above the standard D-15. For a lower end guitar, the D-15S is a great guitar for the $'s.
As to the D-45, guess that is a good marketing statement...D-45 buyers won't be dissuaded, 1st time Martin buyers will be encouraged. Or, maybe he is admitting that the D-45 is overpriced?
Gee, if CFM IV decides to sell the D-45 "plain jane" for $1,300, I'll take a couple.
Going back to the topic...I would rather have a deep bowl non-cutaway...however, if a cutaway, I don't care. I go from a deep bowl to a contour and I don't notice the difference in playing position or comfort. Course, I wear a strap. Not sure of other guitars with the contour, but have been impressed with the projection and voice of the 2005 and 2006 Collectors. As to the Celebs, it should improve the guitar - however, side-by-side, doubt if the Celeb will ever be at the same level of a USA Ovation. The answer of separating the two lines is the logo...I see the Celeb as a Kaman guitar, not Ovation.
And, doubt if I would buy a non-textured top with contour. Cvt & SMT are great guitars but not in the league of an Adamas I, Adamas II, or U681T. |
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October 2006
Posts: 5575
Location: big island | from what i am hearing about the blueridge guitars from china, CFM IV is probably admitting the D-45 is overpriced. |
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April 2006
Posts: 1138
Location: CT | What's with you people? 5 years ago did you guys buy USA Ovations instead of Celebrities because the bowl is different? No. The materials, build quality and sound are superior. Let them put contour bowls on the lower end guitars if they want to. It's the same freakin' plastic bowl, with a DENT! I'm not going to ditch my Custom Legend for a Celebrity because it has a contour bowl. The same things that steered us to USA O's before will continue to do so if KAMAN put contours all over. For me, I'll take the round bowl any day. If I saw 2 otherwise identical Adamii or Custom Legends hanging on a wall, I'd take the round back any day. |
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Joined:
June 2004
Posts: 580
Location: NW NJ | Originally posted by MWoody:
Q: Mike - How do you get yours to tip? I figured out a way on the 2080, but I'm always looking for a better one.
A: I wear a strap, hold the instrument up at about 2 O'clock and right forearm the bout until the contour edge digs into my ribs. Yep, that's what I do too. Great minds? Thought maybe you might have come up with a new system to rival the popularity of Standing O's string tube or reflecive bowl paint breakthroughs ... :) |
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June 2006
Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | "If I saw 2 otherwise identical Adamii or Custom Legends hanging on a wall, I'd take the round back any day."
Right with ya, Brainslag! |
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Joined:
June 2004
Posts: 580
Location: NW NJ | Originally posted by Slipkid:
Geez Robbie... Your harshin' my buzz! :cool:
That sure would be a worst case senario. Yeah Brad - harshed my own buzz too! :(
My heart hopes that they don't do that, but with the quality and features of the celeb line continuing to more closely mirror those of the US line, what is the most likely conclusion? I think the thing that bugs me the most about the possibility is losing even more American hands building American things, in American plants in America.
I really do applaud Kaman and Martin (only because I've seen their operations on their tours - Taylor may be in the same situation) for doing so much to keep jobs here in the US plants. All that automation we see in the factories is a huge way the companies use to keep the plants open here. The machines are really good at doing the same thing over and over again with nearly 100% consistency. Over their useful lives, they are much less expensive that people to do the same job (by huge multipliers), and they do it consistently. On a global scale, the cost of raw materials is reasonably the same country to country because we have a global market for most materials. Labor, on the other hand varies widely which is why business chases cheap labor around the world for products that require a significant amout of human labor to produce. Look at clothing and electronics - NOTHING is made here, or any other developed nation for that matter. Automobiles on the other hand can be made here because the factories are SO automated. I think guitars fall in the middle somewhere. For a manufacturer to keep US guitar plants open, they have to really want to. I really hope Kaman wants to...
On the bright side (if there is one to my doomsday prediction), as global business continues to chase cheap labor around the world though, someday we'll be the cheapest labor force in the world and everyone will be wanting to do it in America again. It's just getting there that could be painful. :confused: |
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Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 793
Location: Texas | I think is time for a well designed wooden bowl.
Maybe flamed maple with a spruce top might sound the best, like the great arched top and back guitars, but any wood combination that they can find to build a top model wood roundback will catch the attention of many that prefer an all wood guitar.
And make it expensive. |
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January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | BINGO ! |
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Joined:
August 2004
Posts: 604
Location: Tampa, FL | Originally posted by worshipleader:
...
Mike - How do you get yours to tip.
...[/QB] I've found it effective to increaase the convexification of my front.
On a more serious note, I think Brainslag makes an excellent point. Before the contour bowl there was no diffrentiation between the bowls attached to USA models and models from elsewhere. The attempt to differentiate based on bowl shape would seem to be driven only by "because you want to" rather than "because you need to" or "because you should." From a business perspective, I expect the customer will differentiate Ovations as they always have, they'll buy what they think they want.
On the other hand, the contour bowl does offer a simple, slam dunk, so-easy-even-a-GC-drone-can-do-it answer to the question "What's different about his one vs. that one?"
Personally, I don't care a lot for the contour bowl, I really like the round-back deep and mid bowls. In terms of sound I really prefer my deep bowls but that IMO has much more to do with the top material (cedar and cracked spruce with A braceing vs. ES with LX bracing) than bowl shape. For me bowl shape is all about comfort and there, again IMO, the round bowls are preferable.
YMMV |
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contour bowl ? or no traditional bowl?
