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Joined:
January 2007
Posts: 21
Location: TO, Canada | Hi, guys!
Hello from a deeply amateurish guitarist from Canada who has been acoustic all his life until purchasing himself a lovely 2077LX Legend black beauty on this New Year day!
I would be grateful for your advice on the whole new set of issues (totally foreign to me) about "going electric". What kind of amps, effects, cables, etc., will go well with my guitar? Which brands? Cost-benefit-wise, I don't want anything too fancy or too expensive, but neither want to use cheap stuff that will ruin the sound and make useless my new treasure.
I play basically blues, folk, some jazz, mainly at home or for a small group of friends. I am really excited to move into new electric land and many thanks in advance for your help with that! |
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Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 659
Location: Hiram, Georgia | Welcome Kass-2077, Congrats on a First Class Guitar!!! In my arrogant opinion you should match it with the BOSE . Just start with the best and you won't have to make excuses later... |
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Joined:
June 2005
Posts: 1320
Location: Round Rock, TX | Oh, Lord - the dam's busted. Amps, effects and cables!!!
If you want to afford it, the following is my recommendation:
Amp - Bose PAS with the bass module
Effects - Boss AD-8
Cable - Monster Acoustic
Another rig that I heard and love is
Amp - Rivera Sedona
Effects - H2O Chorus/Delay
Cable - George L (Red)
Amp option that costs less, but is still real good - Fishman Loudbox Performer
Really versatile amp option that costs even less - Marshall AS100D
Least cost amp option that I can recommend at this point - Roland AC-60
My advice (go ahead, take it. I'm not using it. Actually this time I am) is go ahead and get the good stuff. It's a lot more likely that you'll regret buying the cheap stuff than you will buying the good stuff.
And no, despite what your SO may say, we are not the devil. Although some of the photos that you'll see posted from time to time can be misleading (I won't mention SlipKid). |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA | Fender Acoustasonic Jr. DSP and forget the effects. Just grab a mic and play! |
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Joined:
August 2006
Posts: 2804
Location: ranson,wva | i cant offer any input here because i verry rarely play amp'ed. but i do own the roland ac-60 and a big ass marshal tweed that i cant tell you the model one because its in westvirginia and im in maryland. but i do know the AC-60 is a great amp for the money...jason |
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Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 659
Location: Hiram, Georgia | btw did I tell ya I was arrogant, nobody else knows about THIS . I got one for the kids for Xmas but they never get to play it, so I'm getting another for myself... less than $99! |
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Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | amps: Go into a PA. Something like an MS101, or a keyboard amp, or one of those fender portable units, or, a fender acoustisonic
effects: compressor, overdrive (or a sansamp at the end of the chain), reverb and/or chorus. Maybe an alesis 6 chanel mixer.
cables: Anything by Planet Waves
What will go well with my guitar? Which brands? Cost-benefit-wise?: You got a whole new universe to explore. The only way you'll know is if you go try these out and try out all price levels you can get your hands on. Sound is so personal, you gotta make up your own mind. Now, get off the computer and get out there! |
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Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Amp, a keyboard or bass amp or small pa system. Something other than an electric guitar amp. There's a bunch of Acoustic specific amps, most are OK
Cables, whatever your local store has that's readily replaceable.
Get the first two sorted out then worry about effects. A chorus is nice. So is a loop pedal. in line tuner. It depends on what you need once you get to that point. |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | Read cwk2's message for the necessary equipment, then read MWoody's post for the amp. You can't go wrong. |
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Joined:
January 2007
Posts: 21
Location: TO, Canada | Thanks, guys. It is indeed a whole new universe for me or maybe a Pandora Box? :-) ...Of course, I am gonna go out there and try the gear just as I did when I bought my Legend. But it is good to be prepared, because often sales people know as little as I do.
For me, one of the Ovation's unique features is its groovy (bluesy-jazzy) plugged-in sound. I heard it before and that is why I decided to go for Ovation. When buying, I was offered to test couple of Taylors and Martins of similar price range. They sounded OK and maybe even better in acoustic mode but after I plugged them in - it became clear that nothing can beat the Ovation in this league.
I will definitely check the models all of you suggested (though BOSE maybe a little too much), jus couple of clarifications from the ignorant.
-What is "PA"? Is it a system with battery? Are their rechgargable/AC powered ?
- If I go for a Combo (most likely I will), shall I consider the one with effects or buy them separately?
- Please don't laugh, but I even don't know what some of these effects are...like what is a chorus or a loop pedal? :-)) |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | Kass, do a search for acoustic amp on this board and you'll find a lot of other recommendations. Everyone raved about Genz-Benz for awhile. Definitely go with an acoustic amp, though. It won't have all the effects, but you probably won't use them anyway. Then if you decide you want some effects later, you can add pedals.
I really shouldn't be talking. I'm like Jason. I hardly ever plug them in. |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 1071
Location: Carle Place, NY | "What is a PA?"
Public Address system. It's the anchor of any good sound system. Is consists of a mxing board that usually has an amplifier built in and outputs for two main speakers (and monitors on the bigger units). The advantage of a PA is generally better sound and also you can plug more than one guitar into it directly as well as more than one mic and mix the relative volume, bass, treble, etc of each imput. Most modern PA's have reverb and an effects loop so you can add external effects.
An example of a small portable PA is the Peavey Escort which comes with everything, even mics. |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Reno, NV | Even the cheap acoustic amps sound much better for an acoustic guitar than an electric guitar amp. I have a Crate CA15 for just screwin' around with and I think it sounds good, especially compared to the Roland I have. The dynamics and clarity are lost using electric amps for acoustics. The Crate CA15 is the cheapest amp but the more expensive Crate I had before didn't sound any better, just louder and had a bunch of worthless effects that don't do much for acoustic anyway.
I don't play any louder than what my house walls will suppress, so the small practice amps are all I have tried.
You have to mention a budget when you ask questions like this. Otherwise we don't know what to suggest. When some say, "I don't want to spend a lot of money" ...to some thats $200, to others thats $2000. |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 1071
Location: Carle Place, NY | If you want the most sound for the least money something like this Crate Acoustic Amp might be a good choice. |
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Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Fender makes some nice portable pa'S.
If you get a little keyboard combo/amp like the MS101, you'll need something to sweeten the sound, either reverb or multi-chorus. It sounds OK dry, but we (or should I say I am) so accustomed when listening to amplified acoustics that it doesn't sound right if there's not a little bit of lushness added to the sound. Any other effect, like compression or overdrive is just gravey. |
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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4026
Location: Utah | Definitely get an acoustic amp.
There are 3 basic groups of amps: Digital, solid state analog, and tube. The newest are the digital, which can emulate all kinds of famous brands and sounds. The digital also can have built in effects, some of which are pretty good. Analog solid state is simply transistor. The tube has a warmer sound, but may or may not do anything for an acoustic.
We have a digital Roland Cube amp, which is not an acoustic amp. The effects are pretty ok for basic messing around and the kids performing in church/school. But honestly the effects would not be up to recording or playing professionally.
What do you want to do with the amp? Just goof off and play to your old records, record demos, perform live? |
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Joined:
January 2007
Posts: 21
Location: TO, Canada | Having also read tons of information from other threads I am more and more inclined to go for Roland AC-60. It is light, compact, stereo, has enough of effects but not too many, separate channel for a mike and it is not that cheap. At least I will put it in my test-list along with Fender Acoustisonic. The latter is around the same price, twice as heavy and I did not quite get this brown-wheat coloration.
In my search I also came across some cheaper fenders which apparenbtly could substitute the whole band - with drums, 100 of digital effects, sing along options, MIDI and so on for 350 or so. Sounds like loads of fun but not sure if it isn't just a cheap toy box. Any opinions on this Fender G-DEC 30 Guitar Entertainment Center ? |
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Joined:
October 2006
Posts: 51
Location: Arizona | Originally posted by Kass-2077:
Any opinions on this Fender G-DEC 30 Guitar Entertainment Center ? I have a G-DEC, will probably get a G-DEC 30 once they become commonly available. The G-DEC is GREAT! Tons of bang for the buck there, and the amp and effect models are quite good, plus a built-in tuner. The acoustic amp models are very good and I play my Elite and Strat through it all the time with very good results. You can get just about any sound you want out of that amp, and drum and bass tracks and MIDI capability and all that.
GC (at least around here) often has one out for people to play with, which I'd recommend if you're at all interested. |
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Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 1126
Location: Omaha, NE | I get a really good sound out of our PA. We run a 16 channel board into a 2000W amp, and then into our mains that each have two 15's and a horn. We also use a crossover to feed the low end through a separate amp and then into a pair of 18's, but I don't think much of the guitar signal gets there (its mainly for the bass and the kick drum). For effects we use an Alesis Midiverb. The result is just stunning sound and clarity. I've never heard a stand alone amp that can match the fullness and presence of a proper PA.
That's what's so great about acoustic: The whole idea is "clean" so you can just go straight into the board and you're golden. With electric the amp is as much a part of the instrument as the guitar, and that opens up a lot of issues.
OTOH lugging the PA around is not particularly fun. |
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Joined:
January 2007
Posts: 21
Location: TO, Canada | The G-DEC looks promising from the learning and versatility point of view, and I generally like gear with a lot of features, meaning choice. My only concern is that when you have too much of something in one unit, the system may get too complicated with resulting problems with quality, controlability etc,.
As to PA, I don't think I need it at this stage.
BTW, my guitar, which I bought in a GC, has a slightly different pick-up control panel as compared to the one in the manual/ Ovation website. Mine (OP-PRO/STUDIO) has two knobs, a smaller left one DRIVE and a larger GAIN to the right and also a "fourth EQ" to left of three main called EXPRESSOR with MIN and MAX positions. I presume the big knob is volume, but what are all their exact functions?
Maybe I should wait till I buy the amp? :-) |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 1421
Location: Orange County, California | The "Expressor" is a built in compressor. It should be labeled "fat" at the top, "skinny" at the bottom. Somewhere around 75% is the sweet spot The "drive" knob is a low frequency boost that should be labeled "growl". It's only effective on the compressed signal. In other words, if you run the pre-amp "dry" with no compression, the drive knob doesn't do anything. The other thing to remember is that the EQ is always effective, regardless of the compressor/low boost settings. It's nice to dial in your eq "dry" then "fatten" everything up with the expressor. Also, if you "dime" the Expressor and Drive at fairly high gain, you will sometimes hear some "clipping distortion" (depending on the amp, pre-amp, or board you're running into). This is because this pre-amp's output is very "hot". Under normal conditions, "piezo-quack" is completely non-existent. Even at VERY high gain settings.
I love my OP-Pro/S |
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Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 327
Location: Houston, TX | Re: Keyboard amps, I'm considering the Roland KC-350. I haven't used this one myself yet but I've heard positive things about it from a couple of acquaintances and I've read many articles and reviews. Sometimes I get the distinct impression that I'm reading and talking about music too much instead of playing. Research geek.
I'm coming at this from a different angle than you are, because I play primarily solid body electrics. I have an effects processor and amp modeler that I really like (Line 6 Podxt Live)as well as a Roland GR-20 guitar synth, so I'm just looking for a clean amp that doesn't color the sound. Lets the processors do the work.
I'm not sure I've helped at all. I think you were right about Pandora's box. Be careful what questions you ask! On the upside, trying to determine what gear to buy is always a fun problem in my book.
I think you have 2 paths. 1- What CWK2 said: keyboard amp. You can buy a couple of effects pedals (chorus, looper) and run them on the front end or through an effects send/return on the amp. 2- Acoustic amp. Just about everybody makes them now, with a ton of onboard features. Fender, Carvin, Marshall, Peavey, Behringer, Crate, Roland, Ibanez, SWR, Ashdown. Choices will fly out like a Jack-in-the-Pandora's box.
Good luck in your quest, and let us know what you get and how it works out. |
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Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Dont' forget the third path, you can get one of those self powered PA's from Yamaha, say 40 watts and then add a sans amp and a reverb pedal; or, 4th path, one of those self contained 150 watt fender PA deals. Or some combination thereof.
It all depends on where you are playing. I think you have enough options now to get really confused. Good luck. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Two words..
Trace Elliot |
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Joined:
January 2007
Posts: 21
Location: TO, Canada | The "box" must be empty by now. :-) and here is my update.
I very much like the idea of Fender DEC-30, but if I understand it right it is not an acoustic amp? Is the difference with my second (theoretical) best choice, the Roland AC-60, that great? I mean, will I end up with cool digital toys but lousy sound? Will it matter, (be noticeable) for a novice like me?
Questions, questions... it is time to cut off and go to the shop to do the "sound-check"! )))) |
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Going Electric!
