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January 2007
Posts: 21
Location: TO, Canada | After some of your messages on my previous threads and having put together couple of facts about my O purchase in GC I got curious (if not suspicious) about the deal. Again, will rely on your experience and knowledge to confirm or reject my concerns. (and sorry for the long posting)
1. I wanted to buy a Legend or Custom Legend LX with mid-or-deep bowl and preferably in black finish. The shop had the 2077 model hanging on the wall and the salemsman said it was new.
Of course, I understand it was not a virgin, customers could try/test it, that is fine. It did look shiny new, though there were couple of dark spots on the 3rd and 4th strings. The guy said, it was because of humidity in the premises.
2. Then, as you know, it turned out there was no case for it. He was saying that the Ovation sends to them guitars and cases separately which I thought was a complete rubbish.
3. After my request for manuals he went to look for them and brought me a generic Ovation Owner's manual and a brochure for the OP-PRO preamp which was not quite what I had on my guitar (OP-PRO-Studio).
4. I just now checked the manual that has this cut off registration card, to be sent to Ovation. The guy said it would be a good thing to do, in case there is a theft and so on. There are two handwritten entries on this card for MODEL and SERIAL NUMBER and to my surpise against the model it is written 1778T-5 ??? Isn't it an ELITE model??? The serial number of the back side of the machines is also different from the one in the manual.
5 Finally, when I looked inside the guitar to check where was the tension rod adjuster, I noticed that there were traces obviously left by the Allen key, as if someone was not finding the location from the first attempt. Nothing serious, just a few lines resembling a child's drawing.
My questions:
- What is it? Is it normal or there is something fishy here?
- Was I just given the wrong papers or someone wanted to screw a Canadian :-)?
- Is it possible to identify thru the serial number when the partucular guitar was manufactured and if it had a past history, if any (like they do it with cars)?
- Can it be a simple incompetence on behalf of GC or a case (with no case :-)) of a deliberate attempt to sell a second-hand guitar as new?
I will be definitely calling them but before that would like to have your comments and advice. I need to be prepared, especially if my suspicions are wrong - I don't want to accuse them wrongly.
Many thanks in advance! (Pandora forever) |
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Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | That store is completely screwy. They gave you the registration material from a totally different guitar (the meck adjustment for the 1778 is at the base of the neck, in the bowl --- the adjustment for yours is under the truss rod cover), the wrong owners manuel, and the wrong case. Take the guitar back and demand that they make it right or take the guitar back and get your money back.
If need be, talk with the manager of the store. You are getting screwed and he needs to know about it. |
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June 2005
Posts: 1320
Location: Round Rock, TX | OK, this just ain't right. I'm not saying anybody's being dishonest here, but I gotta tell you (having reread the other thread) - all my O's came with cases, in new condition (except for one I bought off the wall. It, too needed new strings, but there was no disingenuous "humidity" excuse) and I got at least $100 off the sticker price.
I will repeat my advice about getting the number of the regional office and laying your story out for them. GC doesn't need this kind of salesmanship. |
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Posts: 1320
Location: Round Rock, TX | Although, screwing a Canadian is, of course, a time honored practice. ;) |
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Posts: 629
Location: Houston, Texas | I don't know that you are necessarily getting screwed. If you consider how GC does business, it could simply be a case of circumstances and a little incopetence. GC sells alot of guitars. And they sell alot of Celebrities.
I know the foreign made guitars come in a cardboard box. I was with my friend when he bought a Celebrity a year or so ago, and they brought out a sealed cardboard box which had not been opened and a case seperately. It is entirely possible that the cases and foreign made guitars are shipped seperately. The cases are probably drop shipped from the casemaker and the foreign guitars shipped from whatever distribution point Kaman uses.
They sell alot more foreign models than they do the USA models. When they put an American made O on display they have to put the case in the back, probably with the all the Celebrity cases. The people they employ probably don't know one case from another and don't care. And have no idea that the USA models come with registration materials that already have the model and serial number on them. Even if they had a case that fit your guitar, you're pretty much garaunteed not to get the same one it came in. So, if they end up with shipments of foreign made O's and cases unsynchronized, they could run out of cases and wouldn't have the one that yours came in because it already went with another guitar half an hour ago or whenever.
It's their incompetence that they didn't have a case that fit your guitar, but they gave you a hundred dollars off because of it with your agreement. You said they had a case that was too small and it may have been that it was for a shallow bowl Elite T that was somewhere else on display. You may have gotten the case candy from it.
Now all that being said, it doesn't mean you didn't get a new guitar that had been returned by somebody else for whatever reason. But you knew it was on display and had been played, and the lifetime warranty should be good. If the guitar is good and you are happy with it then it shouldn't matter. Put the correct model and serial number on the registration and return it. If you've found something wrong with the guitar, then return it.
Call Al, or your nearest O dealer and have them order you the correct case. |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | "Whoa, Dude, Don't sweat! I'll find ya' a case. Hey, here's one. And it's got paperwork and stuff too. You'll be cool...
Is it break time yet? Meet me out by the dumpster and we'll get mellow, man." |
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Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Kass, I've dealt with a couple of Guitar Centers....here's how they do business.
They consider the case that DOES COME with every U.S.-made Ovation to be a separate item that they can sell separately if they wish to. If a customer comes in and wants to buy an Ovation hard case, (like maybe for a Celebrity) well, whoops, the case for a guitar that is there is grabbed and sold. Too bad for the ultimate buyer of the guitar. All that matters is that Guitar Center sold a case.
If the paperwork in the case was for a guitar they still had, well, again, too bad for the ultimate buyer. He doesn't get his correct documentation and warranty coupon.
They don't care if the case you get (if you even get one) is that case that the guitar came in. This CAN work to your benefit....I bought a 1771LX Balladeer at my local GC a year and a half ago....the case for it was long gone....but the sales guy gave me the only Ovation case in stock, a case for a new Custom Legend they had. That was a nicer case, so I made out.
There was no intent on their part to dupe you...they don't give it that much thought!!!! It's just a matter of "move that product, any which way, as fast as possible".
Someone else that bought a guitar prior to you has your case, manual and warranty paperwork.
Guitar Center isn't the only ones who do this....I bought an Ovation case from a shop here in Michigan and it had the manual and paperwork for a Legend in the compartment (and they didn't have any Legends at that time).
I'd change the serial and model numbers on the card and just send in the warranty....it should be OK.....(any dealers or someone from The Mothership care to disagree??? I'd be interested to know if that is a problem)
ANYHOW.....what you've laid out is "normal operating practice" for Guitar Center. I doubt you can get anything changed.
Roger |
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July 2003
Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Arthur, THAT'S FUNNY!!!! You've obviously been in a Guitar Center!!!!! :D
Roger |
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November 2005
Posts: 1126
Location: Omaha, NE | In a way, I have a fair amount of sympathy for retailers in this area. The simple process of keeping track of matched cases for dozens and dozens of guitars on display would be a significant effort. Factor in the cost of wasted space, and its a big expense.
In the present situation, I still think the the OP should demand the correct factory HSC from GC, at no additional charge. I have to think they will come through once he gets high enough up in the organization. Of course, the one he gets may very well be pilfered from another guitar in their inventory, so the cycle will just repeat itself... |
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Posts: 375
Location: Rocky River, Ohio | You can register your guitar online at Ovation's website.
This is what I would do if the paperwork didn't match. Just be sure to keep your sales receipt as it will have the serial number on it for any warranty work needed.
Ernie |
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Posts: 1922
Location: Canton (Detroit), MI | Omaha, any replacement case will absolutely be pilfered from existing stock. They just won't bother with any other way.
I'm having a similar issue with a Guitar Center right now on something else. I bought a Fender Blues Deluxe amp from them, and the should-have-been-included cover is MIA.....they're supposed to be getting me one (they didn't have another Blues Deluxe to steal one from).
Roger |
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November 2004
Posts: 1330
Location: ms | When I got my 93 colectors new it was shipped to me separate from the case. The guitar was in fine shape but it would have been safer and cost them less to ship them in the same box. The sales guy said since it was being shipped direct to me thats just how they did it. |
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January 2007
Posts: 21
Location: TO, Canada | I like the guitar, it's just these strange small mishaps that confuse me. Maybe they were unavoidable in this travel-across-the-border-for-a-day purchasing mode. But it was worth it - I could buy the model I want and at least 50% cheaper than here in Canada.
Just registered for the warranty in O. website. To my utmost suprise the receipt showed correct model and serial number :-) GC are not that bad after all :-) |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Kass, I don't know that it's a good idea to confess to bringing undeclared goods across international borders on a public forum... |
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September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by The Wabbit Formerly Known As Waskel:
Kass, I don't know that it's a good idea to confess to bringing undeclared goods across international borders on a public forum... "Comin' into Los Angel-leez..." -Arlo |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | You shouldn't have any problems. The Canandian customs people (at least on the new york / montreal route are really cool. It's the Americans that are inquisitive. Funny thing was, last time we told them we were bringing back some cheese and they asked me if I was bringing back more than $10,000 worth. I looked in the back of my honda civic hatch and said no ma'mam. That was it. |
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Posts: 1320
Location: Round Rock, TX | Originally posted by Kass-2077:
GC are not that bad after all Actually, my local GC is at least as good as the local ua guitar shops, with the exception of in store set-ups. The guy who runs the acoustic room is excellent and prominently diplays high-end O's (along with high-end Martins, Taylors, Gibsons and Breedloves, to name a few) He knows what he's talking about, is eager to help and has done me right as to price and follow-up and service.
Come to think of it, the guys in Pro Audio and Accessories all know what they're talking about and are always helpful - and willing to deal.
The more I read on here, the more blessed I feel about having this one near me. |
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January 2007
Posts: 21
Location: TO, Canada | The Wabbit, tho said it was undeclared? Ovations are rare in Canada for some reasons and therefore expensive. Because I could not find the one I wanted here and I did not want to buy it online I went to the States (just an-hour drive). And the volume sales in GC is the price lowering factor. And don't forget I had to pay 8 % of local, NY state tax too. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Sorry, I didn't mean to imply anything. I thought when you crossed into the US and bought things you had to pay the Canadian national and provincial taxes on it as well when you took it home. |
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Posts: 4816
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Originally posted by Kass-2077:
... or someone wanted to screw a Canadian :-)?
Of course! 'Cause we're just soooo damned sexy!
(pull my finger) |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | wilblee--"Actually, my local GC is at least as good as the local ua guitar shops, with the exception of in store set-ups. The guy who runs the acoustic room is excellent and prominently displays high-end O's"
I figure that the folks you meet in places like this must Love their jobs. It sure ain't the money!! |
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June 2005
Posts: 1320
Location: Round Rock, TX | Actually, I figure that it's the most natural way for them to supplement their musical performance careers (which more than a couple of 'em are doing). Of course you should know how to give a customer good service, which is not necessarily a prominent part of a musician's personality - present company excepted, of course. :rolleyes: |
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Posts: 1320
Location: Round Rock, TX | Of course they must love it to some extent, 'cuz they do it well. |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | The kids working at my local guitar center are pretty uneven. Some are pushy little knowitall snots, others are hovering security guard wannabes. Others are OK.
Let's face it, we (or should I say I) don't go to guitar center for customer service, the only reason to go there is to try gear, that you can't demo anywhere else. |
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January 2007
Posts: 21
Location: TO, Canada | The Wabbit,
That's all right...
You don't always pay taxes on foreign goods brought into Canada. It depends on the number of days you were absent and the value of goods. Alcohol and tobacco have separate special rules/limits. |
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SUSPICION!
