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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | I was listening to Stonebobbo's son's MP3 (see 'more family fun') and explored more of Stonebobbo's songs on the site. What a great, distinctive voice. It got me thinkin about my lack of ability/talent in this area...
...again!
Many people can just SING. They just open their damn mouths, and the sound that comes out is magical. It annoys the hell outa me.
My question is - is there anyone out there who couldn't sing - couldn't get a decent sound out of their mouth, but took lessons and LEARNED how to sing?
Is it possible for me to LEARN how to sing, or is it a case of you've either got it, or ya don't?
(BTW, I'm not tone deaf - I've been known to tune a guitar to concert pitch by ear.)
PS. Stonebobbo, it that a 1768 in the photo? |
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Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | I used to be a very bad singer. But now I am really good. Nobody has actually told me that, but I know it's true.
I think it is possible to learn to IMPROVE anything - singing, playing, etc. But everyone has a ceiling and for some of us it is dangerously low. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try breaking through it.
Dave |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Matt Smith covers this in one of his clinics. Basically it's a long hard road and you only get so you can sing by doing it over and over.
I used to be horrible. Now after several months of working at it I'm just pretty bad.
So, now at the Saturday night of the Mike Dowling clinic when we all play and sing for each other we'll see who is telling the truth, Dave or me. |
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Posts: 815
Location: Colorado | Wow Dave!! You would make a great audition contestant on American Idol. I mean you would probably get five whole minutes of camera time including telling us all how good you were before you sang, then your rant afterwards as to why the judges just were against you from the moment you walked in the room.
The sarcasm in your first sentence was jumping off the screen at me. I couldn't resist. Sarcasm aside, Dave makes great points in the second paragraph. As Dirty Harry once said, "A man's got to know his limitations." Yeah, I know. We should all take our advice from Harry Callahan. But I think it fits along with what Dave said.
Some people are just born with it, others work hard to only become mediocre at it while being frustrated the entire time. |
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Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | When I put in my practice time, I always include songs with lyrics. Over time you just get better at it. I guess I treat my voice as a harmony instrument, basically getting into the range of the chord being played on the guitar, and then speaking at that chord level, and then changing with the chord changes. I'm a long way away from treating the voice as a lead instrument. |
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Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Individual voice lessons from a qualified voice teacher might help. They will assist in providing you with proper technique, but will not overcome a total lack of tonal quality. |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Just Do It (and keep doing it).
If you can arrange/afford a couple lessons from a vocal coach, it helps (at least with some of the basic "mechanics" of singing.
In the late 70's/early 80's, there was a school in Manhattan run by PaulSimon's brother, Eddie called the GuitarStudyCenter. Their policy was that if you enrolled in a class, you could arrange to "sit in" on ANY other class (providing there was an open chair). I signed-up for Voice classes, and audited a couple guitar classes over the course of the day (these were Saturday classes). I was already ABLE to sing when I took the classes, but I couldn't take the Advanced Class without taking this one, first (I never did "re-up" when the course was over). The class DID help with a lot of the phrasing, projection, etc. (a lot of "la-la-la, mi-mi-mi, ma-ma-ma, ti-ti-ti, ta-ta-ta, and so on . . .)
While I'm fortunate enough to have a pretty decent range, and there's not a lot of songs that I "can't" sing, whenever we we run through a new song that I've never sung aloud before, the first two or three run-throughs can have a pretty decent amount of "cringe factor" to them.
It's kind of like the "finger memeory" that you inherently develop to learn chord changes. The more you "do it", you start to feel/memorize "where" in your throat you have to "go" to hit a specific (or succession) of note(s). Practicing in an environment that has a bit of natural "reverb" to it helps you to develop, as well.
Just Keep Doing It.
(btw: singing into a microphone is a whole "nuther animal" altogether . . .) |
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January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by cwk2:
So, now at the Saturday night of the Mike Dowling clinic when we all play and sing for each other we'll see who is telling the truth, Dave or me. I'll be wrapping to a boom box. Dave
PS - Bill, do you have a boombox I can borrow? Saves carrying one on the plane. And a Fubu jacket? |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | ". . So, now at the Saturday night of the Mike Dowling clinic when we all play and sing for each other we'll see who is telling the truth, Dave or me . ."
Wish I could be a "fly on the wall" for THAT one . . . |
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Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA | Another helpful hint is to avoid "Bob Dylan Kareoke Night" at the Eagles Hall.
Less volume and more accuracy.
I have been out of practice for about a year. I might have to actually start an excersize program and get some instruction to get back into it.
Even if you only have two good notes - use them. |
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Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | Wish I could be a "fly on the wall" for THAT one . . .
Oh yeah!
Clifford's right on his points. Working at it can make you a better, more confident singer. I remember reading a Rolling Stone article 20 some odd years ago on Huey Lewis. When he was in college, he was so bad and wanted to sing with anybody that would let him. Trouble was, nobody would let him. But he stayed with it and made a million bucks from his singing.
The other factor involved, tho', is what I call the "it" factor (Bill's talked about this with guitars). And that's a pressence that some people just have. I'm pretty certain that it can be developed, like your voice, but if you've got it, it can make good singing great and if you don't, it can make great singing just mediocre. Clifford's got "it". He draws people in when he plays and sings. In all honesty, I don't have it ("Man's got to know his limitations"). People listen politely but that's it.
There's a whole lot more to good singing than just being blessed with a good voice...... |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
There's a whole lot more to good singing than just being blessed with a good voice...... Remembering the words helps, too... |
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Posts: 389
Location: RI. That small State out East | Having watched... Coached 3 different garage bands out of my house. I give this advise.
The cover song you play is "yours". Make it yours.
You can whisper, slurr, talk your way through a lot of music. You do "need" tone... (IE not tone deaf)
A teacher will do good things with breathing and projection. As for range... Not so much.
In my past life I had a First Tenor (high male choir voice)that was going to win me a scholarship
to Purdue University. My Junior year in HS I had my tonsils out and... I became a boring avg 2nd tenor baratone.
Lot's of "big" entertainers "can't" sing... But, deliver one hell of a show. ie Neal Dimond comes to mind.
Get the "me-me-me-me" projected out of the voice box. Take a swig of your favorite beverage and let it rip.
Woz |
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Posts: 1225
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | I hate to actually be nice to Cliff, but his saying that he has a "decent" range is quite an understatememt. He's got a gift that many of us (myself included) would love to have a little of. The guy can f___in' SING.
As for myself, I think I can say that I have a "decent" range, but to expand on the discussion of "knowing you limitations", I try to pick songs that fit my voice and range, or to change keys in order not to blow my voice out with 2 hours of a gig left to do.
If I were doing a studio project, I would be much more likely to "push it" more, but when I have to do a 3 or 4 hour gig, I'm constantly thinking about conserving my voice as much as I can. |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | ". . Less volume and more accuracy . ."
Sorry Mike, but I kinda' disagree . . .
I'm a firm believer of singing to "the back of the room".
Singing with a degree of volume invokes assertion & confidence, and that in itself gives you the ability to "stretch" and/or make corrections in your pitch. Once you've achieved that, it's easer to "reign yourself in" (and still retain that accuracy) at quieter volumes.
When Rick & I first started playing together, he did a MINIMAL amount of singing. When he did, he shyly sang at low volume focusing at just staying "on pitch". I was constantly whispering "sing louder!" to him out of the side of my mouth while he was singing. It got to the point where I would literally (at gigs,) swipe him in the back of the head to sing louder.
Recently his bro-in-law came to see us, and was utterly AMAZED at how well Rick now sings.
His singing has improved exponentially (though I still publicly tell him he sucks). |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | "I hate to actually be nice to Cliff . . ."
WHY is it that so many sentences around here begin with that?? . . . . |
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December 2003
Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA | Attitude!
The key ingredient. I should have finished my thought. When it comes time to practice you should conserve, as John says.
And let the amplification do its job. Good monitoring can save a lot of pain.
But a good smack off-side the head can be good... for the Giver at least. |
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January 2004
Posts: 1225
Location: Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey | Originally posted by cliff:
"I hate to actually be nice to Cliff . . ."
WHY is it that so many sentences around here begin with that?? . . . . I, for one, have taken enough abuse from you to use that "intro" at will ........ |
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March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | ". . But a good smack off-side the head can be good... for the Giver at least. . ."
If you've never seen Rick & I together, you have NO idea how true that statement can be . . . |
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Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | I don't hate to be nice to Clifford, I can be nice or mean as the situation calls for. It's just that the situation doesn't call for nice very often..... |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | It IS what it IS . . . |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by cliff:
"I hate to actually be nice to Cliff . . ."
WHY is it that so many sentences around here begin with that?? . . . . You have to ask???
(Nice quiet political statement, btw! I don't agree, but I was feeling the very same way about 01.20.81, 01.20.95 and 01.20.01.) |
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Location: NJ | (I have absolutely NO idea what you're alluding to, but)
It IS what it IS . . . |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | ...I believe that depends on what your definition of is is...... |
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November 2005
Posts: 4820
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Bob Dylan
Leonard Cohen
Doug Bennet
Neil Diamond
If these people can get paid to sing, so can you.
Join a choir for a little while to learn pitch and harmony. Learn what your range is, and how far you can push it.
Singing is almost as important as laughing. Do both every day, especially laughing. There is always some kind of sound that you can make with your face that will be entertaining...go find it. |
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singing
