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February 2023
Posts: 7
| Hello club,
Nice to meet you, I share your passion for the these iconic instruments and love your site.
I am endeavouring to bring my first guitar back to life, Its a model 1112 sunburst from early 80's.
Ive spent the last month humidifying and repairing serious cracks plus installed a bridge doctor.
The neck is next, the truss rod seems to be missing a method or part to tighten.
Hopefully I can include an image, the truss access is through the body however all I see is a threaded rod, I assume Im missing a barrel nut or something has snapped off the end or the rod.
If anyone has encountered this issue could they please share a recommendation?
Many thanks,
Mikel
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 IMG_3337 3.jpg (50KB - 0 downloads)
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Posts: 3611
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Just send the photo image to OMA. He can repost it to this conundrum thread. OOPS! Too late. Thanks, though.
Edited by seesquare 2023-02-11 8:50 AM
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Hmmmmm........looks to me like the nut & washer were simply removed. Just get another one! |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | So, this critter is original to you? Baffling that the adjustment nut just disappeared. |
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February 2023
Posts: 7
| Thank you seesquare,
I appreciate the quick response.
This is the first time I have worked with a truss rod so wasn't sure if it was that simple.
I did see an image on this site which had a different looking rod and was wondering if something snapped off the end of the rod in my guitar.
I will search the internet for a part, is there a standard size on the threaded rod itself? A 10/24 nut will not spin on but close.
Thank you again, have a nice day!
Mikel |
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February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | @seesquare - >>>Hmmmmm........looks to me like the nut & washer were simply removed. Just get another one!<<<
Wouldn't adding a single nut and washer only compress-tighten against the heel and not allow the rod to turn at all? And how would one install something to loosen the rod? Perhaps two nuts locked against each other, and only turn the one closest to the neck to loosen the rod and the outer one to tighten? Would that suffice in this instance of bare threads as seen in the photo??
My 1112 is a 1981 with the Kaman Bar like this one, but it seems it has some sort of barrel connector over the threads with a female hex on the tip of the barrel connector, and locked onto the threads to allow turning both directions. I also believe the hex is a 5/16th (guitar is stored and too lazy to go dig it out to see). I do know that there is also a wrench pilot hole in the bracing in front of the rod tip to allow straight-on access to the hex.
Edited by Love O Fair 2023-02-11 5:22 PM
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February 2023
Posts: 7
| Thank you club members,
I appreciate you taking the time to help me.
I admit Im a newbie in guitar repair. You mentioned Kaman Bar.
Can you please help me understand the operation of the threaded rod, Im unclear if the threaded rod rotates or the barrel nut bottoms out at the heal and simply pulls the (non rotating) rod towards the bottom of the guitar.
In the case of the rod needs to rotate I could freeze a nut on the rod with permanent thread lock and turn that.
Ive included an image of parts to aid in discussion.
I should mention the neck presently is bowed at rest without strings.
Thank you again,
Mikel
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1112-1612 Cust Balladeer w Kaman Bar.jpeg (115KB - 7 downloads)
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | The truss rod does not turn. The bow in the neck will be corrected after you replace the barrel nut & retighten the restrung instrument to proper tension. If the 10-24 nut is close, it's probably 10-32. |
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Location: When?? | >>>The truss rod does not turn.<<<
Mikel-- at this point it is quite likely best that you pay no attention to the man behind the curtain (me) and do what Seesquare suggests.
Seesquare-- I am of the understanding that a K Bar rod (itself) turns freely inside an anchor that is threaded and fixed-attached at the headstock end while the metal trough the rod is enclosed inside of remains fixed in place (also fixed-connected to the headstock anchor) and thus having the trough provide the tweak of tension upon the wood. Is that incorrect?? And further understanding that to be the unique concept of the K bar design in providing tweak to a longer portion of the neck than that of traditional truss rods. Still incorrect?? I suppose that my understanding (stemming originally back into the K bar introduction) must be coming from seeing the string clearance (action) changing farther down the neck (toward the body) than I have ever experienced with a traditional truss rod adjustment. How far off base am I on all that??
Edited by Love O Fair 2023-02-12 4:41 PM
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Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | PS to next-above post-- Part #8 in the diagram is the barrel nut I was referring to.. and assuming is locked onto the threads to have positive grab in both directions.. though now not so sure about that lock as further thinking that the good engineers at Ovation would have made the barrel and rod one piece if that were the case. And speaking of locked.. perhaps it would be best if they locked me away somewhere before I ruin someone's guitar neck, and shall hereby cease any technical suggestions until released (if ever) from said locked away place.
Edited by Love O Fair 2023-02-12 5:12 PM
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | TR is always fixed and doesn't rotate. It doesn't matter whether it's a conventional TR or a KBar TR.
The nut only applies tension to the TR to pull the neck backward against string tension.
Only a two-way TR can pull the neck forward. |
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Location: When?? | So if the rod does not rotate then my wonder and amazement of the K Bar system as being some type of revolutionary miracle is now, decades later, shattered, as I suppose I assumed it functioned as a two-way rod that rotated into a female-threaded anchor at the base of the headstock. At least that's the way I must have ever interpreted a schematic of the thing. Which brings the question-- does a two-way TR rotate.. and/or.. has anyone ever heard of development of any type of rotating rod design that I describe here in my own, awry concept of physics?
PS: Mikel, sorry to report that threads here sometimes get sidetracked into the great beyond.. and I hope that you are succeeding nicely with your project :-)
Edited by Love O Fair 2023-02-13 7:06 PM
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | A two-way TR is just two TRs stacked one on top of the other.
When you tighten one rod, it pulls back. When you tighten the other, it pulls forward.
To my knowledge no TRs rotate inside the neck. In every case, one end is fixed and the other is threaded. Here's a cut-away photo of a neck showing how a TR is installed. 
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February 2023
Posts: 7
| Thank you all ,
I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
I proved concept by stacking machine washers, installing a 10/32 nut and used a nut driver.
It worked well so Im staying with it, the catch is once string tension is applied you have to remove strings to adjust.
Presently, with strings off I have .008 inch relief and with strings on its tripled to .025 inch. (8th fret)
"Ok where is my nut driver?"
Thanks again,
Mikel
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IMG_3615.jpg (34KB - 0 downloads)
IMG_3616 2.jpg (29KB - 0 downloads)
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Location: When?? | Mikel... from the serial number in the photo I see that both of our 1112s are 1981s, (yours slightly newer than mine by probably a month or so), and both are the -1 sunburst. Mine was the first brand new Ovation I ever purchased and shall forever remain the coddled baby of my entire guitar collection. The top wood has seasoned so very nicely and produces incredibly rich tone. Aside from string changes its setup remains 100% as it came from the factory 42 years ago and still plays wonderfully with light action and feel. Though still waiting for some buzz to come about from fret wear, so far so good with none. When that happens I hope that Dan will accept it into his shop for new ones.. and speaking of whom...
Dan & Chris-- Thank you for setting me straight on the [non]rotation aspect of the K Bar design. I guess I merely interpreted the whole reason for the K Bar trough being to allow free rotation in both directions and away from the wood.. walking away satisfied with that notion for decades.. and have now moved on to interpret the only reason for the bar trough being essentially for wood stabilization all the way down the neck.. unless I am wrong about that part, too, in which case I will simply play and enjoy my K Bar Ovations and not much further ponder (or pontificate) the internal guts of it all.
Edited by Love O Fair 2023-02-14 12:07 PM
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Posts: 755
Location: Muenster/Germany | BTW don´t forget to always !! loose the strings before you try to tighten the tr nut. No screw loves to move when it´s under tension. |
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Model 1112 refurbish, missing truss rod parts
