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Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration

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seesquare
Posted 2022-01-29 2:10 PM (#556975 - in reply to #556974)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3464

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
"Those who stand & wait, also serve". Thanks for the support 2WD! I called & emailed Al about a case. Hopefully, we make connection fairly soon. "Period-correct" may be an illusion of choice here. That may be all that's available for these models, anyway. And, I have put Bondo on old cases, in the past.
And, as evidenced by my prior gizmo fabrications, I could probably make some jigs for straightening & aligning a case, as well.

Edited by seesquare 2022-01-29 2:16 PM
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BCam
Posted 2022-01-30 10:06 AM (#556979 - in reply to #556707)
Subject: RE: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration


Joined:
October 2014
Posts: 256

What's going on? No progress or photos since 1/27? You're slacking off.
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seesquare
Posted 2022-01-30 4:24 PM (#556980 - in reply to #556979)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3464

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
Sorry for the sloth, fellas. The air brush rig is due for arrival on Tuesday. Crossing my fingers, anyway. Worked on leveling some spots on the top this AM.
Should have some new images of paint samples soon.
Had a reply from Al, too. He will get back with some cases info in a couple of weeks.

Edited by seesquare 2022-01-30 4:28 PM
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MWoody
Posted 2022-01-30 7:52 PM (#556982 - in reply to #556707)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13957

Location: Upper Left USA
You can never have too many tools! Looking good!
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seesquare
Posted 2022-01-30 10:47 PM (#556983 - in reply to #556982)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3464

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
High praise, indeed! Thanks, Mike. Glad to have you aboard!
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BCam
Posted 2022-01-31 8:50 PM (#556992 - in reply to #556982)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration


Joined:
October 2014
Posts: 256

MWoody - 2022-01-30 5:52 PM

You can never have too many tools! Looking good!


Especially clamps!
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seesquare
Posted 2022-02-01 6:58 AM (#556993 - in reply to #556992)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3464

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
"Especially clamps". I'm hip. Like, ones that have a 12" reach, too! I think my current count is hovering around 400. 'Course, that includes the clothespins.
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seesquare
Posted 2022-02-02 7:06 PM (#556995 - in reply to #556707)
Subject: RE: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3464

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
OK, I'm back in business. Got the new tool & will be practicing awhile. Bought some special additive for the paint which makes it stick to plastic better.



(airbrush- smaller image.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments airbrush- smaller image.jpg (92KB - 0 downloads)
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Love O Fair
Posted 2022-02-02 8:17 PM (#556996 - in reply to #556707)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1571

Location: When??
Oh, my. You just used the "p" word.
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seesquare
Posted 2022-02-02 8:54 PM (#556998 - in reply to #556996)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3464

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
Okay, “non-wood” surfaces. Is that more palatable? We do have some sensitivity about that issue. My bad. Mea culpa.
The first couple of test pieces look pretty good, anyway.
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DanSavage
Posted 2022-02-03 11:53 AM (#557000 - in reply to #556998)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2272

Location: Lake Forest, CA
If you want to sound really fancy, call the "non-wood" pieces, "composite."

Ooh... Ahhh...
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2022-02-03 12:39 PM (#557001 - in reply to #556707)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15592

Location: SoCal
Do what Kaman did and make up a name -- Lyrachord......
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seesquare
Posted 2022-02-03 1:03 PM (#557002 - in reply to #556707)
Subject: RE: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3464

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
Shot the first couple of black acrylic on the bowl. Got a couple of sags to be sanded out. Generally, going pretty well. Will shoot some clearcoat over the black. Then, cut & buff. Should be almost back to original, pretty soon.



(1st airbrush coat 1- smaller image.jpg)



(1st airbrush coat sags- smaller image.jpg)



(1st airbrush coat top end- smaller image.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 1st airbrush coat 1- smaller image.jpg (61KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments 1st airbrush coat sags- smaller image.jpg (63KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments 1st airbrush coat top end- smaller image.jpg (72KB - 0 downloads)
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Love O Fair
Posted 2022-02-03 4:38 PM (#557004 - in reply to #556707)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1571

Location: When??
That looks very nice! Definitely a strange shape to work with from every angle. What type of cut & polish pad/wheel will you use.. as in bench-mount vs. hand-held?
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seesquare
Posted 2022-02-03 6:11 PM (#557005 - in reply to #557004)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3464

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
Hand-held. I have some mild orange peel in the overall surface, and it will be unacceptable. I will sand it smooth again, and adjust the airbrush setting. I tried some small areas of clear finish, but didn’t remedy the problem. Persevere.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2022-02-03 9:51 PM (#557006 - in reply to #556707)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1571

Location: When??
Just a suggestion if you haven't gone there yet with the re-sand.. have you considered using green pad to rescue light orange peel? And I mean the light texture green pad like you find on the back of the little yellow cleaning sponges, NOT the coarse weave type like you get when buying just the green pad alone (you can buy the sponges in the grocery store cleaning aisle). We refinished an antique stove some time back that had light to moderate orange peel using rattle can epoxy appliance paint, and the light weave green pad knocked it down quite well prior to the final coat. It does not remove as much of the paint's base as sanding does if you meter the pressure oh-so lightly in circular motion. It's best if used damp-to-wet, and work the pad a bit first to soften it up.

Edited by Love O Fair 2022-02-03 10:16 PM
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seesquare
Posted 2022-02-04 8:58 AM (#557007 - in reply to #557006)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3464

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
Thanks for the suggestion, Al. I have already sanded off most of the offending surface but will get some of those light texture green pads. I really don't want this to take forever, i.e., "How many times do you have to put your hand on a hot burner?!"
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seesquare
Posted 2022-02-04 1:17 PM (#557011 - in reply to #556707)
Subject: RE: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3464

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
Greetings,
I may need some advice here from experienced airbrush artists. The paint I airbrushed had some orange peel surface, likely my fault- either paint too thick/thin or not correct air pressure. As I was sanding it off with 1200-grit, the paint came off mighty fast & easily. My question being, is this paint too soft, and should I be using another paint type, like a solvent-based enamel, or even lacquer? I have had fairly good results with rattle-can enamels in the past, which were solvent-based aerosols, and set up fairly hard in about 3 days. Did I sand off the acrylic too quickly?
As I noted previously, I really don't want to repeat this fiasco. Einstein was probably right.
And, another issue. This acrylic didn't have a very glossy finish. Is that what I can expect with this type of paint product? I used the proper thinner, too.

Edited by seesquare 2022-02-04 1:24 PM




(airbrush paint front label- smaller image.jpg)



(airbrush paint rear label- smaller image.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments airbrush paint front label- smaller image.jpg (92KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments airbrush paint rear label- smaller image.jpg (87KB - 0 downloads)
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DanSavage
Posted 2022-02-04 5:24 PM (#557014 - in reply to #557011)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2272

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Acrylic paint, like all water-based paint is pretty soft. There's not too much you're going to be able to do that will 'harden' it.

Even solvent-based one-part paint (enamel) can be pretty soft. Generally speaking solvent-based paint will 'harden' up as the solvent out-gasses. Like lacquer, you need to let it rest for at least a month.

Orange peeling can be caused by several factors. It could be the area was too cold, the paint was too thick, (excessive viscosity) too thin of a coat that prevented the paint from self-leveling or was sprayed from too far away from the surface.

I would suggest trying again, but on a practice surface.

Knowing that you'll have to level and polish the surface requires quite a build-up of paint to prevent burning through the finish.

I apply paint to guitars slightly different than what the instructions say. The instructions call for a light dusting coat, let the solvent flash off for 5-10 minutes. Apply another dusting coat, let it flash. Then, spray on a final wet coat. This method can lead to orange peel.

I spray on a wet coat and let it flash. This usually comes out pretty level. Then I spray another wet coat, which orange peels. Finally I spray on a heavy wet coat to level the surface again. The final coat fills most of the orange peel from the second coat. Even though I sprayed three actual coats of paint, I consider this to be a 'coat.'

When I was spraying with Minwax Polyurethane, I would spray on a 'coat' in the morning, let it dry until the afternoon, then sand it level to prep for another 'coat' the next morning. I would usually lay on 7-8 'coats' of paint, which would be the equivalent of 21 coats done the conventional way.

As I say, it takes about a month for the solvents to out-gas and the paint to harden.

I like using Eastwood 2K paints because they get really hard, really quickly. Since it's 2-part finish, there are no solvents to out-gas, so the finish doesn't really shrink like 1-part paint.

Lacquer is a good, hard finish, but the coats go on really thin. You'll need to put on about 15-20 coats, then let it rest for a month. One of the nice thing about lacquer is there's no need to sand between coats because the new coats melt into the previous coats. The problem with lacquer is that it's chemically delicate. Lots of modern plastics and rubbers will out-gas solvents that 'melt' the finish.

Edited by DanSavage 2022-02-04 5:28 PM
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Love O Fair
Posted 2022-02-04 7:36 PM (#557015 - in reply to #556707)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1571

Location: When??
@Dan - >>>I like using Eastwood 2K paints <<<

Since the first time I saw you use an Eastwood 2K finish I have researched it and seen photos that others have posted of Eastwood product results. The stuff seems to be the Cadillac of spray cans (oxymoron, I know) and I have seen and read nothing but good about it. I had intended to use it on a 5' table top, but it is a bit pricey and tongue-in-cheek for such a large surface spray application, and opted instead for brush-on.. so my post here may be a lot to say for someone who has yet to actually use it on anything, but I tend to trust the reviews and photos when they are all so positive.
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seesquare
Posted 2022-02-04 8:34 PM (#557017 - in reply to #557015)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3464

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
Hmmmmm.........the Eastwood 2K looks like a good product. What I'm curious about is whether the can is a one-time use, after you release the activator agent in the can. It covers 10-to-16 sq. ft, which will be plenty. Pot life is 48 hours, per product description. So, do you shoot a couple of coats within that 48 hours?
I have used the Minwax Poly in the past, for a clear coat on guitar tops. My protocol has been similar to yours. A couple of coats, let it set up a couple of days, sand it level, shoot a couple more coats, sand, and then (usually) a finish coat.
I think I may be barking up the wrong tree with the acrylic. It is easy to use & clean up, but it really isn't going to get me the finish I desire.
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seesquare
Posted 2022-02-04 9:11 PM (#557018 - in reply to #556707)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3464

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
Yeah, the bowl surface was probably too cold, also. I probably am not willing to wait until April for warmer weather, either.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2022-02-05 6:17 PM (#557019 - in reply to #556707)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1571

Location: When??
@seesquare - >>>I probably am not willing to wait until April for warmer weather, either.<<<

Uh-oh. Now you're sounding like I do when it comes to hurry-up anxiety on projects like this.. which, realizing my own history, is definitely not a good thing. You know.. haste and waste and stuff. And certainly not intending to wag an amateur finger at a seasoned crafter.. but.. I know someone with a career in human behavioral matters, so let me know if you want their number and maybe they can talk you into waiting. Either that or fire up your nifty heater bender gizmo and warm the shop for a day or two. Another option is to wait for wife to go out, then quickly mask off the kitchen and take chances with lingering odor and brow beatings by said wife (been there, too).
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seesquare
Posted 2022-02-05 8:06 PM (#557020 - in reply to #557019)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3464

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
Thanks for the reality check. Actually, SWMBO asked if there was somewhere inside the house I could paint. As I will probably switch to another type of paint, which will probably stink up the joint, probably not an option. And, I have been guilty of rushing projects, with less than ideal outcomes.
I suppose waiting a few weeks for better weather might be the best option. I know, my viewers will be disappointed with a delay. But, it may be the right choice for now. Actually, it will afford an opportunity to get the instrument set up and find out what it’s playability issues are.
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DanSavage
Posted 2022-02-05 8:47 PM (#557021 - in reply to #557017)
Subject: Re: Pandora II- The GCDB Restoration



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2272

Location: Lake Forest, CA
seesquare - 2022-02-04 6:34 PM

Hmmmmm.........the Eastwood 2K looks like a good product. What I'm curious about is whether the can is a one-time use, after you release the activator agent in the can. It covers 10-to-16 sq. ft, which will be plenty. Pot life is 48 hours, per product description. So, do you shoot a couple of coats within that 48 hours?


Yes, it's a one-time use. But there are caveats.

You can extend the pot-life of the activated urethane by putting it into your refrigerator between uses. The low temps will retard the catalyzing process.

What I do is to get the guitar ready to spray -- sanded, de-greased & tack-ragged. Activate the finish and spray my three-coat regimen in the morning. Then, put the can into a zip-lock baggie and into the fridge. That afternoon, level the finish and clean with naptha.

Next morning, pull the paint can out of the fridge and into a small container of hot water to heat the finish in the can to room temperature. Once it's warm, give the guitar a quick swipe with a tack rag, then repeat the three-coat regimen and stash the paint can back into the fridge when I'm done spraying.

I'll repeat this process until I'm happy with the thickness and look of the finish.

I've had a can of finish last for a couple of weeks this way. Even in the fridge it will eventually catalyze, but you will have had plenty of time to finish a guitar.
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