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October 2021
Posts: 18
| Hello OFC, I am new to the club. I have a 12 string smooth back, not sure what year, it has a slight belly, much like its owner, and the finish over the rosette is lifting up, I think it got too warm where I was storing it, no cracks in the wood or finish. I don't know if it is worth fixing, any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.
Thank you,
WAK |
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Posts: 1769
Location: When?? | Hi, WAK. Welcome to the hut.
Just curious as to what you mean by "smooth back". Is it glossy-shiny? What does the inside label look like (shape color, number). Have any photos?
Odd that the finish on the rosette would lift from being stored too warm, yet have no serious wood/finish affected from it. How is the neck condition and height of the string action?
If it is a shiny-glossy back and a square inside label, not only would it be worth fixing, it may be worth jumping up and down about.. but, then again, I'm not too savvy on older 12-string issue and nomenclature. Someone here will know soon.
PS: To show photos click "Advanced Reply" which is at the lower right of the reply box below.
Check the box that says "Attach a photo or file after posting". Type your text and click "Submit".
Then another page and box will come up that allows you to select and post a photo.
Just follow the prompts.
Edited by Love O Fair 2021-10-13 3:02 PM
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Posts: 18
| Thank you Love O Fair, it is a shiny back, no electronics, has a square tag, no bridge lift, just a bit of belly behind it. The action gets higher towards the 12th fret, I have never tried to adjust it. I can see no cracks in the wood or finish, just some dings in the clear coat. I am just ticked that the finish lifted over the rosette, it is a beautiful guitar besides that. When I was preschool age, my brother who is 14 years older, owned this guitar. He kept it under his bed, when he was at school or work, I would open it up and lightly strum it, I thought it sounded so beautiful. When I became a teenager, he traded me for an electric guitar, I was so excited to finally own it. I am not sure how to go about getting it fixed or if it is even worth it, I don't know the value of it as is, compared to fixing it. Any tips, advice or suggestions are appreciated, I am posting some photos as well. |
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Posts: 18
| I tried to send photos but I think I messed up, I will try again. |
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October 2021
Posts: 18
| It says my photo files are too big, I don't know how to fix that.The square tag says 12 string serial B-186-A.
Edited by WAK 2021-10-13 8:03 PM
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Posts: 699
Location: moline,illinois | WAK that would be a 1968 balladeer 12 string I believe,very worth fixing,some what rare they only made the shiny bowls the first few years.
If you know a good luthier you could have them access it for you or you could contact Ovation they have a repair shop
Here's a link to info about your guitar
http://ovationtribute.com/Catalogues/12_Strings_Ovation_Brochure/12... |
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Posts: 18
| I think I figured it out
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Posts: 18
| Thank you 2wheeldrummer, I figured it was an early model, I just don't know what year for sure. I wonder if refinishing it would hurt the value, something is only original once. I know a real good Luthier, I don't know if he works on Ovations, I guess I should ask him. |
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Posts: 3599
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Fix it! That is a very worthwhile instrument to refurbish. Contact The Mothership in New Haven, to see if they are willing to do "the spa treatment". As to dating the instrument, there is a link to that tracing, in the General Info section of this website. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | "Reference & Frequently Asked Questions" |
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Location: Utah | I would be very hesitant to have it worked on other than a basic setup. Partially from a value standpoint, but primarily from worry it gets harmed in the process. The rosette is cosmetic, and it could be replaced or somewhat repaired. If it bothers you, get it fixed but do some research and reach out to some on the BFLG subforum here. As to the belly, that isn't abnormal. How bad is it? With proper setup it may be quite playable still.
Repairing the belly properly might be doable but a lot of effort. It may just be a loose brace to be reglued. It could need a new top. A neck reset or bowl-bend might be the correct fix.
A really good luthier who is trustworthy can advise you. However, I tend to be skeptical of most luthiers who don't have a lot of experience with Ovations. Your guitar is rare, and worthy of preservation and playing. I would advise to choose what makes you happy with it, and don't worry about the eventual selling price. |
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| Thanks seesquare and FlySig, it is hard to know what to do, I don't want to ruin it, but in it's current shape the playability is not the best. I can't tell if the rosette is "over" or "under" the clearcoat, it seems like it is under the finish. I would like it to be a pleasure to play but not hurt the value of it, but in its current state, I don't know the value of it versus undergoing repair. The rosette is cosmetic, it doesn't change the playability, it just doesn't look good if I ever wanted to sell it. |
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Location: Utah | Post some photos in the Bottom Feeders Luthier Guild forum on this site. Folks here have repaired or replaced rosettes and should have some solid info and advice for you. Also they can advise on neck reset vs bowl bend vs some kind of repair to the top.
A good setup might help playability a lot too. |
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Posts: 18
| Thank you again, I will do that. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | get it to play well and leave the rest
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Location: Indiana | I have one very close to that... A-347. Mothership did a beautiful refresh last year.
These old girls are definitely worth preserving. Mine has a bit of a belly, too. Par for the course for a 50+ year 12'er.
They are special.
Listen to Beal.
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| I have owned five # 5 12 strings exactly like this one, including # A-347 mentioned in the previous post.
Lifting of the inlaid rosette is very common, but unfortunately cannot be repaired. There is a clear coat of lacquer over a very thin sheet of plastic that has the oak leaf pattern heat stamped on it. The plastic is glued to a piece of foam material that has a pearl finish. So, the finished rosette consists of two distinct parts, in addition to the clear coat finish.
The rosette is seated in a shallow channel that has been routed into the wood, and this channel is the exact same size as a standard sized raised rosette from just about any period.
The best repair is relatively easy. Cut through the finish on the outside of the rosette with an Exacto knife, and follow the groove of the routed channel. Remove the old rosette and replace it with a standard sized Ovation rosette from eBay or an Ovation parts seller. The new rosette will fit perfectly in the groove.
With this repair the guitar will look aesthetically correct, and the value will not be reduced significantly, as this model is not particularly collectible and resell price will probably never be significant.
It is possible that the factory could replace it with a modern inlaid rosette, but the pattern is not the same and the repair would be more obvious.
However, unless aesthetics are very important to you, it would not be worth the investment of repair. It will not increase the resell value, but rather, could possibly reduce the resell value.
Edited by bobfrith 2021-10-14 8:31 PM
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Posts: 18
| Jonmark Stone, it looks beautiful! What did they do in the refresh, and if you don't mind me asking, what did it cost? Thank you Beal and Bob frith for your opinions and advice, not sure what I am going to do, the rosette problem bugs me, but I also understand it is only cosmetic. I am getting varied opinions about the value of the guitar from others, maybe it is best to just get it as playable as possible. |
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| This is serial # B-013 that had the inlaid rosette replaced with a raised rosette.
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| Looks good, did you do that yourself? |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | I dunno, but I judge any shiny bowl as collectible. Maybe, not as much as an original Adamas, but still……..it’s worth a few calls for repairs. I would take it in a heartbeat. |
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Location: Indiana | Bob, they did a great job repair on "our" guitar.
Yes, they used the later overlayed rosette. But they sanded it flush and it turned out beautiful.
Have it in my lap as we speak.
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Location: Indiana | WAK - 2021-10-14 8:39 PM Jonmark Stone, it looks beautiful! What did they do in the refresh, and if you don't mind me asking, what did it cost?
They over sprayed the top. Replaced the rosette. Buffed top and back. Checked the integrity of the top/bridge bracing. Total charges at that time under DW were under $300 plus shipping. |
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October 2021
Posts: 18
| Jonmark Stone, it turned out looking great, not bad on the price either. What does DW mean? I wonder if the action can be lowered, it gets higher towards the 12th feet, I have never tried adjusting it. Did you tell mothership what to do or did they suggest what to do?
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Location: Utah | DW was the previous owner of Ovation. DW Drums. They gave it a good try, resurrecting what was a sinking ship due to previous ownership decisions. Luckily the craftsmen at the Mothership (factory) continued to believe in the brand and products, putting out instruments as good as any in the past. I got one of (perhaps the) last Adamas 1687GT from the factory under DW and it is a fantastic instrument.
The history of KMC is a microcosm of modern American corporatism. An innovative entrepreneur builds a successful family run business that changes the state of the art, and builds a large very loyal customer base. A couple of generations of the family put their souls into the business which has their name on it. Then when they sell ownership the new cold-hearted owners start looking at accounting metrics, taking profits then selling it on to another soul-less conglomerate which bleeds it dry and breaks it up, which sells it to another owner that sees potential and who does their best to rebuild a respectable operation out of what the hedge fund types did to it. DW was that owner. They reopened the USA factory in New Hartford CT and introduced improvements to existing models. That was about 5 years ago.
DW ran out of steam and sold Ovation/Adamas to GEWA about a year ago. GEWA is a German company that has distributed Ovation for decades. They seem to be doing a good job, with the intent of growing into the future.
I've had a couple of guitars back to the factory for refresh, and they do a great job. Pricing was very reasonable, though figure in shipping in two directions adds quite a bit of cost. I wouldn't hesitate to trust the factory to work on your guitar, though I would abide Beal's advice. |
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12 string smooth back with a slight belly, is it worth fixing?
