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A confusing old Balladeer...

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ajkula66
Posted 2021-07-28 9:30 PM (#555946)
Subject: A confusing old Balladeer...


Joined:
July 2021
Posts: 9

Sheer curiosity on my end...

Several years ago I bought this beaten up Custom Balladeer which plays great and records beautifully. Probably staying with me till the bitter end since it has zero street value and a huge utility value...anyway...

The serial puts it at '84, which sounds about right given that the truss rod adjusts from the soundhole. The tag identifies it as 1112 Custom Balladeer with no dashes or numbers after that one.

Every single 1112 I've come across was a purely acoustic model. This one has the "old school" electronics with concentric knobs which would - to the best of my belief - be reserved for a 1612.

Mis-labeled at the factory ? Or am I missing something ?

Thanks for any and all wisdom you might be willing to offer.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2021-07-28 10:18 PM (#555947 - in reply to #555946)
Subject: Re: A confusing old Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1473

Location: When??
Probably retrofitted with electronic by a prior owner. Converting the 1112 was a pretty easy process when using the knob configuration you describe along with basic pickup strip beneath the saddle. I also have an 1112 (-1 burst) that I bought new in 1981 and hope to keep until the bitter end. The original frets are a bit worn and not planned to replace, so I tend to play it less for longevity than my other Ovations, but when I do the sound just jumps right out as being so very distinct and wonderful.
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ajkula66
Posted 2021-07-30 10:17 PM (#555953 - in reply to #555947)
Subject: Re: A confusing old Balladeer...


Joined:
July 2021
Posts: 9

Love O Fair - 2021-07-28 10:18 PM

Probably retrofitted with electronic by a prior owner. Converting the 1112 was a pretty easy process when using the knob configuration you describe along with basic pickup strip beneath the saddle. .


Thanks for replying.

That thought has crossed my mind but this - including the battery compartment - looks like a factory job.

I might post a picture or two once I get a chance.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2021-07-31 1:48 PM (#555957 - in reply to #555946)
Subject: Re: A confusing old Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1473

Location: When??
So it has a battery... but only the stacked knob controls and no others? What do the battery leads connect to??
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seesquare
Posted 2021-07-31 8:55 PM (#555958 - in reply to #555957)
Subject: Re: A confusing old Balladeer...


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3309

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
As I recall, the stacked knobs are for volume & tone, wired into a powered preamp circuit. There should be a separate battery clip, attached next to the knobs, wired into the preamp.
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ajkula66
Posted 2021-07-31 9:21 PM (#555959 - in reply to #555958)
Subject: Re: A confusing old Balladeer...


Joined:
July 2021
Posts: 9

seesquare - 2021-07-31 8:55 PM

As I recall, the stacked knobs are for volume & tone, wired into a powered preamp circuit. There should be a separate battery clip, attached next to the knobs, wired into the preamp.


Correct.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2021-07-31 10:26 PM (#555960 - in reply to #555946)
Subject: Re: A confusing old Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1473

Location: When??
Back to square one I guess.
Assuming that the knob set is in the typical 1612 location on the upper bass bout pointing slightly upward from the neck?
I'm trying to picture a 1612 with stacked knobs. I thought they (circa 1984) came factory with just one volume knob. Or maybe they issued them in both configurations?
How wide is the saddle? Narrow like the 1112, or wide like the 1612? The two saddle types are not interchangeable without changing or seriously modifying the whole bridge (again, I assume). I recall the retrofit I mentioned above only using a slim pickup placed beneath the original 1112 saddle.
Photos if you can.

Edited by Love O Fair 2021-07-31 10:56 PM
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2021-08-01 9:47 AM (#555964 - in reply to #555946)
Subject: Re: A confusing old Balladeer...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15518

Location: SoCal
The guitar was probably retrofitted with electronics. Who knows where. By 1984 all Ovations (or almost all) had their electronics installed at the waist of the guitar as cutaways were being built. Factory 1612's had, I believe, the FET preamp (looks like the OP24) at the waist. Also, as noted above, the type of saddle with tell a lot. Bet it has the narrow acoustic saddle with a piezo underneath it. If it has the Ovation standard p/u of the day, the mystery will just deepen........
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ajkula66
Posted 2021-08-01 10:43 AM (#555965 - in reply to #555960)
Subject: Re: A confusing old Balladeer...


Joined:
July 2021
Posts: 9

Love O Fair - 2021-07-31 10:26 PM

Photos if you can.


Thanks for replying.

I'll do my best to get to it sometime later today.
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ajkula66
Posted 2021-08-01 10:52 AM (#555966 - in reply to #555946)
Subject: RE: A confusing old Balladeer...


Joined:
July 2021
Posts: 9

OK here we go



(IMG_20210801_1146246.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments IMG_20210801_1146246.jpg (43KB - 0 downloads)
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ajkula66
Posted 2021-08-01 10:57 AM (#555967 - in reply to #555946)
Subject: RE: A confusing old Balladeer...


Joined:
July 2021
Posts: 9

And some more...



(IMG_20210801_1146431.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments IMG_20210801_1146431.jpg (62KB - 1 downloads)
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Love O Fair
Posted 2021-08-01 2:29 PM (#555969 - in reply to #555946)
Subject: Re: A confusing old Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1473

Location: When??
@Moody P.I. - >>>If it has the Ovation standard p/u of the day, the mystery will just deepen........<<<

And deep we go.

Either a highly modified 1112--- or as you originally pondered, a mis-labeled 1612. Or.. I will give my own example using a house.
The developer built a few hundred of the same houses around town for 10 years. A nicely varied model selection with many options. Around 5 years after they stopped offering those models they built just 27 more of them in a new neighborhood using materials they had left over and stored from the originals (cabinet sets, bathroom vanities, shower configurations, etc.) that were unique to fit only in those original-build floor plans. So If you ended up with one of those final 27 (me), you got a mix-match-potpourri of parts and pieces from the originals no matter which floor plan you chose. Nice houses, yet a total mystery (and pain) years later for repairs and remodel work. Point being, perhaps Ovation arrived at that same juncture around the time this guitar was made.

Edited by Love O Fair 2021-08-01 2:47 PM
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ajkula66
Posted 2021-08-02 12:21 AM (#555974 - in reply to #555969)
Subject: Re: A confusing old Balladeer...


Joined:
July 2021
Posts: 9

Love O Fair - 2021-08-01 2:29 PM

Point being, perhaps Ovation arrived at that same juncture around the time this guitar was made.


I've owned instruments made by some other famous manufacturers that resembled your house in that respect...so yeah, it certainly could be the case.

Edited by ajkula66 2021-08-02 12:22 AM
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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2021-08-02 5:56 PM (#555978 - in reply to #555946)
Subject: RE: A confusing old Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 627

Location: moline,illinois
ajkula66 - 2021-07-28 9:30 PM

Every single 1112 I've come across was a purely acoustic model. This one has the "old school" electronics with concentric knobs which would - to the best of my belief - be reserved for a 1612.

Mis-labeled at the factory ? Or am I missing something ?



You guys are making a mountain out of a molehill IMHO

Simplest answer is the purchaser sent it back to the factory to have electronics installed ,probably pretty easy and common during the 80's for them to retrofit the preamp and install a pickup.

Here is a recent listing from reverb that says its an "1187" which should be acoustic only but it clearly has the proper electronics for that period
https://reverb.com/item/41996703-ovation-adamas-1187-2?show_sold=tru...

So not an uncommon thing to see it seems


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Love O Fair
Posted 2021-08-02 6:11 PM (#555979 - in reply to #555946)
Subject: Re: A confusing old Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1473

Location: When??
@2WD - >>>You guys are making a mountain out of a molehill IMHO<<<

But heck.. at least it's fun 'playing' detective!
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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2021-08-02 7:11 PM (#555980 - in reply to #555979)
Subject: Re: A confusing old Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 627

Location: moline,illinois
Love O Fair - 2021-08-02 6:11 PM


But heck.. at least it's fun 'playing' detective!


LOF if you really want to try playing detective get out your magnifying glass and find the serial number on the preamp then trace that to which year that lot was made at which point you'll know if/when it was sent back to the factory...Caveat *unless somebody stole the electronics out of another guitar *


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Love O Fair
Posted 2021-08-03 4:52 PM (#555983 - in reply to #555946)
Subject: Re: A confusing old Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1473

Location: When??
@2WD - >>>Caveat *unless somebody stole the electronics out of another guitar *<<<

And you really think that would resolve it?? Slippery slope. Then it would be necessary to know what guitar it was stolen from. and, of course, if it was original equipment in that guitar as well.

I may check more about it later.. but right now they are here to pick me up for today's session.
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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2021-08-03 6:42 PM (#555984 - in reply to #555983)
Subject: Re: A confusing old Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 627

Location: moline,illinois
Love O Fair - 2021-08-03 4:52 PM

@2WD - >>>Caveat *unless somebody stole the electronics out of another guitar *<<<

And you really think that would resolve it?? Slippery slope. Then it would be necessary to know what guitar it was stolen from. and, of course, if it was original equipment in that guitar as well.

I may check more about it later.. but right now they are here to pick me up for today's session.


LOF "is that an electro shock therapy session" or
"how to be OCD and still keep the white coats away"

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Love O Fair
Posted 2021-08-03 9:37 PM (#555985 - in reply to #555946)
Subject: Re: A confusing old Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1473

Location: When??
#1 is correct. Tuesday is high-voltage day.. then they treat me to cheese sticks and bourbon afterward.
FYI-- I was perfectly normal until you told me that if I outlive you I still wouldn't be included in your will for the Caddie Green 1769. That was the day I folded. Thanks a lot.
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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2021-08-03 11:58 PM (#555986 - in reply to #555946)
Subject: Re: A confusing old Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 627

Location: moline,illinois
LOF I think you had a little to much bourbon and not enough cheese to soak it up.
I've read your posts for years and your about as (ab)normal as the rest of us eccentric round back fanatics.
I tell you what I've got a fat homely spinster sister,marry her and I'll leave her the caddy green 1769 so if you outlive us both its yours LOL

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Love O Fair
Posted 2021-08-04 10:31 AM (#555987 - in reply to #555946)
Subject: Re: A confusing old Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1473

Location: When??
>>> fat homely spinster sister<<<

Excellent timing. My wife filed papers just yesterday. So heck yes.. if she can recite scripture while changing my diaper on Tuesday evenings and wash/wax a Kenworth, then you got a deal... bro.
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