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Very early red Breadwinner

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BKL71
Posted 2019-11-07 9:55 PM (#550396)
Subject: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
November 2019
Posts: 14

Location: Central Illinois
Hello,

I am new to this forum but I have always been a fan of Ovation guitars, especially the Breadwinner. I recently bought this from Reverb. It is a loaded body of a very early Breadwinner. It has pickups and hardware normally found on the Storm series guitars, and the back is solid unlike the later models. I am currently having a luthier friend of mine build me a neck for it. Can anyone tell me anything about this guitar?


/Users/christinelaukaitis/Desktop/breadwinner proto body.jpg
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BKL71
Posted 2019-11-07 9:58 PM (#550397 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
November 2019
Posts: 14

Location: Central Illinois
Sorry, my link to the photo doesn't work. I forgot to mention that the entire body is sprayed in red lyracord like the acoustics.
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Mr. Ovation
Posted 2019-11-08 10:43 AM (#550400 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7052

Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
If you could post the photo online somewhere and link to it, that would help.
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MWoody
Posted 2019-11-08 12:44 PM (#550401 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13908

Location: Upper Left USA
Interesting...
https://reverb.com/item/26998869-rare-ovation-breadwinner-prototype-...
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BKL71
Posted 2019-11-08 1:17 PM (#550403 - in reply to #550401)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
November 2019
Posts: 14

Location: Central Illinois


That's the one that I bought. I had it for a couple of weeks before I took it to a luthier friend to have a neck made for it.
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BKL71
Posted 2019-11-08 1:47 PM (#550404 - in reply to #550400)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
November 2019
Posts: 14

Location: Central Illinois
Mr. Ovation - 2019-11-08 10:43 AM

If you could post the photo online somewhere and link to it, that would help.


The reverb listing that is linked below your post has some excellent photos in it. I paid for and received the guitar, so I have no idea why the seller left it up.
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Mr. Ovation
Posted 2019-11-08 2:39 PM (#550405 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7052

Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
I don't want to rule out it being legit, but I'd pull the pickguard and see what's underneath. Original necks are still available from folks like myself, but there are so many questions I have about that body and the choice of hardware in general. Having said that, anything is possible, and we've seen just about everything... but I see lots of red flags at this point. Upon your response we'll update you to full member and move this thread into the main area where others, including possibly the person who built this (if it indeed was built at the factory) can post.
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BKL71
Posted 2019-11-08 7:12 PM (#550414 - in reply to #550405)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
November 2019
Posts: 14

Location: Central Illinois
Mr. Ovation - 2019-11-08 2:39 PM

I don't want to rule out it being legit, but I'd pull the pickguard and see what's underneath. Original necks are still available from folks like myself, but there are so many questions I have about that body and the choice of hardware in general. Having said that, anything is possible, and we've seen just about everything... but I see lots of red flags at this point. Upon your response we'll update you to full member and move this thread into the main area where others, including possibly the person who built this (if it indeed was built at the factory) can post.


What red flags do you see? According to the seller, he got it from a local guitar shop in the Phoenix area about 20 years ago. The owner took it in trade years before but never did anything with it. What do I need to look for under the guard? Also, I have tried Viper and Eclipse necks and neither of them came close to fitting. The neck from my '73 Breadwinner fit the neck pocket and the top two machine screws were the same, but the bottom two did not line up. I didn't want to part out a perfectly good Breadwinner, so I opted for having a neck made instead. I noticed that in the last season of the Partridge Family that a red Breadwinner identical to mine appeared in a few episodes. In fact, several Breadwinner were used in the show and ALL of them had the Storm Series pickups and hardware. The knobs on my guitar are not original. It had Peavey knobs on it when I got it but I swapped them in favor of the ones that are on there now. I would buy some original Ovation witch hat knobs if I could find them.
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Mr. Ovation
Posted 2019-11-08 7:35 PM (#550415 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7052

Location: The Great Pacific Northwest

So what you mention about the Partridge family is a possibility. Maybe it was a prop or one of the prop designs. I don't ever recall seeing a red one, but there was a white one and I thought blue as well, but mostly Storm Series guitars. But, if it was a prop, why not just grab a breadwinner body?  This one doesn't have the cavity on the back for the preamp. 

I'd look for what the routing is under the pickguard and maybe what the original color was. Maybe even the wood. The jack location is correct for an early breadwinner, but... if it was an early breadwinner, why the mid-fire on the screws... or... maybe that was it. Maybe it was designed as a prop, they goofed on drilling the holes for the neck, and stopped. Interesting for sure. I'm going to upgrade you to full member and move this to the main area where more people can respond.

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Mr. Ovation
Posted 2019-11-08 7:41 PM (#550416 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: RE: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7052

Location: The Great Pacific Northwest

Well ya learn something new every day...

Check this out..  It's listed as 1 of 12 of the prototypes (Not sure why that word is used so often)..  for the Partridge Family.

FWIW I am still curious why they just didn't use a Breadwinner in a different color but maybe there was a requirement to make it unique.   Maybe someone remembers...   VERY COOL FIND !!!!   

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BKL71
Posted 2019-11-08 7:54 PM (#550417 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
November 2019
Posts: 14

Location: Central Illinois
If you check out various Partridge Family videos on YouTube, you can see that at least 5 different Breadwinners appeared in the show, all of them equipped like the one above (and like mine). I have seen white, dark blue, red, brown sunburst (like the burst found on a Fender) and black. If you watch the video for "Alone Too Long" you will see David Cassidy playing a red Breadwinner exactly like mine. In fact, I have studied that video a lot and I am convinced that my guitar and the one in the clip are the same. I would love to know why the neck was separated from the body, but if these guitars were used as just props (and its likely) there may have been some parts swapped between guitars. If you notice, the same Breadwinner never appears after another color is used. I watched that show a lot when I was a kid and it got me interested in Breadwinners and Ovation guitars in general.
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BKL71
Posted 2019-11-08 8:20 PM (#550418 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
November 2019
Posts: 14

Location: Central Illinois
In one of the photos in the Reverb listing, the guard is pulled and it reveals red lyracord underneath as well. The routs look pretty clean, so it definitely wasn't an amateur job. I am really curious to know more about this guitar's history.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2019-11-08 11:04 PM (#550421 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1178

Location: What week?
My two cents.. the only Breadwinner I ever owned was like the body & guard in question here, same color red/white, and exactly like the one in the Partridge Family video, with the [butt ugly] red headstock and white TRC. This goes back to my induced mind fog of the early-mid 80's, and I purchased it used (1983, I think) in Salt Lake City. I cannot recall exactly what the knobs were, but it seems they were more alike to the ones on the gold body shown above than the silver ones on yours. My niece and I traded it back and forth for a few years, and the last time I saw it (1987, I think) the neck's rigors of wear and beaterhood were starting to set in. I don't know where you are located, but we lived in Pismo Beach, California at that time, and the person she eventually sold it off to was named Todd. I believe Todd eventually took it to Las Vegas/Henderson. We also had a wood grain Deacon that I always just thought was another Breadwinner (induced mind fog again) and later learned the differences.. but that's a whole other story. Anyway, I'm not sure if any of this even remotely applies to your history and nomenclature quest, but there ya go.

Oh.. PS.. the case that came and went with the Breadwinner was also exactly like the one for yours in the Reverb ad.

Edited by Love O Fair 2019-11-08 11:27 PM
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BKL71
Posted 2019-11-09 5:15 AM (#550423 - in reply to #550421)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
November 2019
Posts: 14

Location: Central Illinois
Love O Fair - 2019-11-08 11:04 PM

My two cents.. the only Breadwinner I ever owned was like the body & guard in question here, same color red/white, and exactly like the one in the Partridge Family video, with the [butt ugly] red headstock and white TRC. This goes back to my induced mind fog of the early-mid 80's, and I purchased it used (1983, I think) in Salt Lake City. I cannot recall exactly what the knobs were, but it seems they were more alike to the ones on the gold body shown above than the silver ones on yours. My niece and I traded it back and forth for a few years, and the last time I saw it (1987, I think) the neck's rigors of wear and beaterhood were starting to set in. I don't know where you are located, but we lived in Pismo Beach, California at that time, and the person she eventually sold it off to was named Todd. I believe Todd eventually took it to Las Vegas/Henderson. We also had a wood grain Deacon that I always just thought was another Breadwinner (induced mind fog again) and later learned the differences.. but that's a whole other story. Anyway, I'm not sure if any of this even remotely applies to your history and nomenclature quest, but there ya go.

Oh.. PS.. the case that came and went with the Breadwinner was also exactly like the one for yours in the Reverb ad.


I am located in Illinois, but the seller is located in Arizona. He told me that the shop he got it from acquired it many years before but nothing was ever done with it. He said the shop was located in the Phoenix area. The shop owner has since passed away, so sadly he isn't around to ask for more info. The silver Peavey knobs were installed by the previous owner. I have since swapped them out. The pots have solid shafts on them so my choice of knobs is limited. The case I have also has various military patches glued to the bottom of it. Were these patches there when you bought it or did you (or your sister) put them on there? Also, did your guitar have a neck plate on it? There is evidence that one used to be on my guitar, but it is such an odd size that I will have to have one made if I want to replace it. It is very possible that I have your old guitar. Thanks for posting, by the way!

Edited by BKL71 2019-11-09 5:45 AM
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Mark in Boise
Posted 2019-11-09 9:53 AM (#550425 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12658

Location: Boise, Idaho
You really belong here. You have to be a real Ovation Fan to have studied every Partridge Family episode for guitar research purposes. I'm intrigued almost enough to binge watch the whole series, but I'm afraid someone might catch me and have me committed. This thread has also got me wishing again that I hadn't passed up that red Deacon that was hanging on the wall at Guitar Center a few years ago.
Keep it up. This is interesting. At least to some of us. BTW, now that you're a full member. Figure out how to post your own pictures so we have a better idea of what you're talking about.
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Standingovation
Posted 2019-11-09 12:10 PM (#550428 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner



Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 5900

Location: Phoenix AZ
We need to track down that long-ago member "xbj" who orchestrated a whole Partridge Family tribute band complete with all the original instruments and amps. He even had the prop Ovation speaker cabs and OPAS pa system. He was located in Las Vegas.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2019-11-09 5:58 PM (#550435 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1178

Location: What week?
@BKL71 - >>>Were these patches there when you bought it or did you (or your sister) put them on there?

Actually it was my niece I shared it with, and Todd, the friend she sold it to, was young back then too (gee, weren't we all).. but no.. what I meant in my post was that the case was the same model, not necessarily the same particular case. Ours had no stickers on it, but a latter owner may have put them on there if it is per chance the same case.
>>>Also, did your guitar have a neck plate on it?<<<
Yes. Chrome, I believe.
>>>It is very possible that I have your old guitar.<<<
Yes, quite possible, especially considering that you found in the southwest part of the country after being in storage for so long.
>>>Thanks for posting, by the way!<<<
My pleasure. Nice to meet you. Welcome to the OFC.

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Mr. Ovation
Posted 2019-11-10 2:52 PM (#550442 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7052

Location: The Great Pacific Northwest

I'm so glad my spidey sense was wrong. It's great to find that after almost 20 years of these forums, something "new" about an old Ovation can pop up. There has been talk on and off over the years of building a breadwinner again. The usual "limited run" deal for some special moment in history. In just a couple of years will be the 50th anniversary of the release of the Breadwinner. What a cool tribute to replicate this one !!! Unlike building just a "special" Breadwinner that would end up costing way more than just finding a used on eBay, and unlike making a "tribute" using parts that would have NEVER appeared on an Ovation from the factory, they really could reproduce this one rather affordably. Being able to get it to a price point where people could buy it for the novelty.

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Beal
Posted 2019-11-10 6:43 PM (#550443 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner



Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 13970

Location: 6 String Ranch
yep, partridge they were red white and blew
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BKL71
Posted 2019-11-11 10:25 PM (#550452 - in reply to #550442)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
November 2019
Posts: 14

Location: Central Illinois
Mr. Ovation - 2019-11-10 2:52 PM

I'm so glad my spidey sense was wrong. It's great to find that after almost 20 years of these forums, something "new" about an old Ovation can pop up. There has been talk on and off over the years of building a breadwinner again. The usual "limited run" deal for some special moment in history. In just a couple of years will be the 50th anniversary of the release of the Breadwinner. What a cool tribute to replicate this one !!! Unlike building just a "special" Breadwinner that would end up costing way more than just finding a used on eBay, and unlike making a "tribute" using parts that would have NEVER appeared on an Ovation from the factory, they really could reproduce this one rather affordably. Being able to get it to a price point where people could buy it for the novelty.



Back in 2005, you almost got your wish. Ovation had the Samick factory in Korea build a couple of Breadwinners to test the waters to see if there would be any interest in a reissue of the model. I have one of these guitars; it was my very first Breadwinner. I purchased it off eBay from a seller in Minnesota. His "Buy It Now" price was so reasonable that I just bought the thing. My guitar is pictured elsewhere on the internet with a brown tortoise shell guard and truss rod cover. I requested that the seller put the original black guard (along with the stock pickups) and truss rod cover back on before shipping. If someone will tell me how to post pics, I will post some here of this guitar.

Edited by BKL71 2019-11-11 10:30 PM
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Love O Fair
Posted 2019-11-11 10:38 PM (#550453 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1178

Location: What week?
Posting pictures--
1. Below/right of the reply box where you type your post here at the bottom of the page is an option titled "Advanced Reply". Click it.
2. It will open up a new page with a space to type your text. Below that space is a box that says "Attach photo or file after posting". Click that box (which will put an check mark in it).
3. Type whatever text you may want in your post, and click "Submit".
4. At that point another page will appear that lets you browse for whatever photo file(s) you want to display.
5. Once you have chosen your file selection, click submit and both the text and photo will appear in your new post.

At least that's how it looks and works on my computer.. and I hope it does on yours, too, since we'd like to see that 2005 Breadwinner model.

Edited by Love O Fair 2019-11-11 10:47 PM
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BKL71
Posted 2019-11-12 6:26 AM (#550459 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: RE: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
November 2019
Posts: 14

Location: Central Illinois






Edited by BKL71 2019-11-12 6:29 AM
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BKL71
Posted 2019-11-12 6:29 AM (#550460 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: RE: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
November 2019
Posts: 14

Location: Central Illinois
Here it is.



(Ovation Breadwinner 2005 Prototype.jpg)



(Ovation Breadwinner 2005 Prototype.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Ovation Breadwinner 2005 Prototype.jpg (57KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments Ovation Breadwinner 2005 Prototype.jpg (57KB - 0 downloads)
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BKL71
Posted 2019-11-12 6:33 AM (#550461 - in reply to #550396)
Subject: RE: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
November 2019
Posts: 14

Location: Central Illinois
Here's the back.



(breadwinner prototype body.jpg)



(breadwinner prototype headstock.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments breadwinner prototype body.jpg (52KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments breadwinner prototype headstock.jpg (27KB - 0 downloads)
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BKL71
Posted 2019-11-12 6:36 AM (#550462 - in reply to #550461)
Subject: Re: Very early red Breadwinner


Joined:
November 2019
Posts: 14

Location: Central Illinois
I would like to point out that this guitar was originally equipped with the jack on the side of the guitar like my red one. The previous owner thought it got in the way while he was playing while sitting down, so he removed the coil tap on the front of the guitar and put the jack there instead. I still have the original jack plate and coil tap switch; I may put them back on at some point. Also, the truss rod cover that was supplied with the guitar is too short down at the bottom. At some point I need to have one made that is the proper size. The body has a textured finish but the neck does not. Also, it is hard to tell from the photos but the end of the fretboard has the "mustache" like the originals. It plays and sounds really good, in my opinion. It's a shame that Ovation didn't go through with their plans for a full-on reissue.

Edited by BKL71 2019-11-12 6:44 AM
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