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String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string

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CranstonSnord
Posted 2019-10-07 3:36 AM (#550024)
Subject: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string


Joined:
September 2019
Posts: 10

I just got a Celebrity CC245 in a trade and want to adjust the string action which is too high. I removed the strings and there was one shim, which is now out. There is a slight difference in the string action, but it is still too high. I forgot to put a straight edge on the neck when the strings were off to see if the neck was bowed, but have done a trick I saw on Youtube, and it seems flat. All this involved was holding down one set of strings on the 1rst fret, and the one closest to the guitar body and look at the string clearance in between. The neck does not seem to be bowed one way or the other. What is my next step? I replaced the strings with extra light ones. I have read on the web about adjusting the Truss rod, but the advice for this is all over the place from seeming like an easy adjustment, to leaving it to an expert if you do not know what you are doing. What are my options? Thank you for any information you can give me!
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seesquare
Posted 2019-10-07 8:09 AM (#550026 - in reply to #550024)
Subject: Re: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3165

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
It's sounding like a neck-set is in order. If it has a bolt-on neck, this is a relatively easy task. If it's glued-in, take it to the nearest guitar tech, who knows about Ovation adhesives. Best of luck!
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CranstonSnord
Posted 2019-10-07 3:03 PM (#550032 - in reply to #550026)
Subject: Re: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string


Joined:
September 2019
Posts: 10

seesquare - 2019-10-07 9:09 AM

It's sounding like a neck-set is in order. If it has a bolt-on neck, this is a relatively easy task. If it's glued-in, take it to the nearest guitar tech, who knows about Ovation adhesives. Best of luck!


You will have to excuse my ignorance, but what is a neck-set?? lol
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Love O Fair
Posted 2019-10-07 3:48 PM (#550033 - in reply to #550024)
Subject: Re: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1178

Location: What week?
I was thinking the same thing. Neck reset. It's when you go to the doctor and have your neck bent to a new angle so that when you look down at the guitar the strings appear to be closer to the fingerboard. But there's another way to go about it, too, and that is to leave your neck and head in place like you were born with and instead have the neck from the guitar removed and altered/reinstalled at a slightly new position that orients the neck and the bowl to an angle that work together to align the strings for a desired spacing and play action. Your choice, but I highly recommend the latter of the two. It's less of a pain in the neck and any decent guitar tech can make it work for less cost than a doctor. Some have bolts, and some used glue. Can you look or probe around inside of the bowl enough to see if there is a bolt head (usually two) in there at the base of the neck?
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FlySig
Posted 2019-10-07 4:58 PM (#550034 - in reply to #550024)
Subject: Re: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 3866

Location: Utah
Post some pictures.

The neck "relief" is the space between the top of a fret and the bottom of the string. Usually at the 6th or 7th fret. Use a capo on the 1st fret and then lightly use a finger at the 13th-14th fret to hold down one of the strings. There should be a very small gap, barely visible, above the 6th or 7th fret. You can find numbers on various websites and then use metal thickness gauges to measure the relief, but it should be nearly zero and barely visible.

If the relief is too low, you'll get fret buzzing when you play in the cowboy chord area, roughly the 1st through 5th frets.

Another adjustment is at the saddle. Since you've already removed the one remaining shim, you've done all you can do there.

An important adjustment is the depth of the string slots at the nut. Many guitars are poorly set up from the factory. Put a capo between the 2nd and 3rd frets. Or just use a finger or have a friend help. Now the string should be a straight line from the top of the 2nd fret back to the nut. In theory (but not practice), the nut is "Fret Zero" and should be the exact same height as the metal frets. Thus the gap above the 1st fret should be just zero. But in practice there has to be a very slight gap. Barely visible. About the thickness of the 1st string. If the gap is more than that, the action in the first few frets will be too high and the intonation will be bad. And, this carries over to the rest of the neck with the action too high.

You can easily adjust the truss rod yourself. Youtube will have many tutorials. Start with about 1/2 turn maximum adjustment the first day. It may only take 1/8 turn to make a pretty noticeable change. Righty tighty, lefty loosey. You'll want to tighten the truss rod to lower the action (if the relief over the 6th fret is too much). If you tighten too much you'll make the relief too little, and then you get fret buzz playing in the first 5 frets. Just loosen the truss rod back a bit if you get fret buzz.

Filing nut slots lower is something you can do at home, but it is really easy to go too far. Then you'll have fret buzz when you play open strings. If you do it yourself, buy a good set of nut slot files. A good luthier can do it for you for less $ than buying the files.

Another consideration is humidity. If you have a very dry or very humid climate it can change the shape of the top, which changes the height of the action. Ideally you keep the guitar in a humidity and temperature which are very steady. 45% humidity is about perfect. 30% is about the minimum, and 60% the maximum to keep it healthy. Constant % humidity is more important than the exact number if you are in that range.
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elginacres
Posted 2019-10-07 7:36 PM (#550036 - in reply to #550024)
Subject: Re: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string


Joined:
July 2005
Posts: 1380

Location: Colorado
FlySig - you are being very generous in the definition of the cowboy chords - you better ask Moody PI if anything beyond the third fret still qualifies as cowboy chords...maybe 4th fret when you add C# bass to a D or and A....
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CranstonSnord
Posted 2019-10-08 3:27 AM (#550042 - in reply to #550034)
Subject: Re: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string


Joined:
September 2019
Posts: 10

FlySig - 2019-10-07 5:58 PM

Post some pictures.

The neck "relief" is the space between the top of a fret and the bottom of the string. Usually at the 6th or 7th fret. Use a capo on the 1st fret and then lightly use a finger at the 13th-14th fret to hold down one of the strings. There should be a very small gap, barely visible, above the 6th or 7th fret. You can find numbers on various websites and then use metal thickness gauges to measure the relief, but it should be nearly zero and barely visible.

If the relief is too low, you'll get fret buzzing when you play in the cowboy chord area, roughly the 1st through 5th frets.



I did this last night and I think it is OK. When I held down one of the strings, I was able to put a thin light pick between the 6th and 7th fret and the string and it was held there. What size of Allen wrench do I need to adjust the truss rod? I think it is a metric size, but I am not sure. All I seem to have is standard. I do not want to strip the bolt!



Edited by CranstonSnord 2019-10-08 3:31 AM
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FlySig
Posted 2019-10-08 9:53 AM (#550044 - in reply to #550024)
Subject: Re: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 3866

Location: Utah
I don't know what size wrench you need for the Celebs. I have a wrench that came with one of my guitars and just use that. Hopefully someone here has an authoritative answer for you.
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nerdydave
Posted 2019-10-12 11:46 PM (#550105 - in reply to #550024)
Subject: Re: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string


Joined:
August 2011
Posts: 744

Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah
Try your standard wrenches. If none fit appropriately then buy a set of metric wrenches. Whichever wrench fits snugly and goes in all the way is the one you will use!
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-10-13 11:00 AM (#550112 - in reply to #550024)
Subject: Re: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1420

Location: Indy
I like the long handled/ball ended ones for working inside the body. Cheap at Harbor Freight.
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CranstonSnord
Posted 2019-10-13 12:42 PM (#550114 - in reply to #550024)
Subject: Re: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string


Joined:
September 2019
Posts: 10

It is not a 5mm! I tried it and it was too small. 6mm was too big, and 4mm was too small. Going to try my standard set and see what size it is.
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DanSavage
Posted 2019-10-13 1:08 PM (#550115 - in reply to #550114)
Subject: Re: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
3/16"
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CranstonSnord
Posted 2019-10-13 5:54 PM (#550118 - in reply to #550024)
Subject: Re: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string


Joined:
September 2019
Posts: 10

It is 3/16th for sure! Thanks! Two things..is it normal that it is real hard to turn, and do the strings need to be loosened before I do so? I only turned it maybe 1/8th of a turn.
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2019-10-13 6:26 PM (#550119 - in reply to #550024)
Subject: Re: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10428

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Most are pretty hard to turn.
If you are Tightening it, yeah.

But usually, you only want to turn it 1/8 or 1/6 of a turn.
Then wait to see what happens.
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nerdydave
Posted 2019-10-17 10:40 PM (#550182 - in reply to #550024)
Subject: Re: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string


Joined:
August 2011
Posts: 744

Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah
Not to change the subject but are you by chance related to Burple Snord?
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nerdydave
Posted 2019-10-21 10:41 PM (#550197 - in reply to #550024)
Subject: Re: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string


Joined:
August 2011
Posts: 744

Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah
That fine individual did run for president in 1972. I no longer have his position papers but I do remember his buttons (one of which read "BS in 72".
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Love O Fair
Posted 2019-10-22 2:19 PM (#550198 - in reply to #550024)
Subject: Re: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1178

Location: What week?
It's always best to loosen a truss rod just a little bit for the first move before tightening it beyond its original position, especially on older guitars that have not had an adjustment for a while (or ever). And who/what exactly is a Burple Snord?
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nerdydave
Posted 2019-10-22 11:40 PM (#550199 - in reply to #550024)
Subject: Re: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string


Joined:
August 2011
Posts: 744

Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah
Great question. Unfortunately that fine gentleman has crossed that river from which no man returns. And I no longer have his campaign literature. But he lives on in the memory of those of us who knew and supported him!! And he was also instrumental in introducing me to my present wife! Nixon and McGovern went on to supplant him as the main candidates and the rest is history!
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CranstonSnord
Posted 2019-10-23 10:17 PM (#550211 - in reply to #550024)
Subject: RE: String action too high on a CC 245 Celebrity 12 string


Joined:
September 2019
Posts: 10

Burple Snord?? Sorry. I am afraid Cranston Snord is just an alias and is not my real name. I used to read the BC comic strip and that name was mentioned there once and it kind of stuck with me!
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