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Stop! Okay?

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ovie26
Posted 2019-02-11 10:34 PM (#547005)
Subject: Stop! Okay?


Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 162

Location: Pittsburgh
Dear DW,

I appreciate all you've done. But please, stop with the new headstock shape! That's all. Just stop.

Signed,
An old guy with 4 guitar-playing sons
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Mike S.
Posted 2019-02-12 1:39 PM (#547007 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?



Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 563

Location: Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
Dear DW,
WHAT HE SAID! AND PLEASE, WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, NO MORE "CALIFORNIA" ALL-WOOD GUITARS, EITHER! "DON'T EVER DO THAT AGAIN!" (Jonny Depp- The Lone Ranger-2013 Version) THANK YOU!
Signed,
An even older guy,
Mike S.,
Ottawa, ON.,
CANADA
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MWoody
Posted 2019-02-12 4:22 PM (#547008 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13983

Location: Upper Left USA
And while you're at it... Viper, Deacon, Solidbodies.
Not. Eastwoods.
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Mike S.
Posted 2019-02-13 8:09 AM (#547010 - in reply to #547008)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?



Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 563

Location: Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
Hello, MWoody,
To the best of my knowledge, the ONLY reason Eastwood Guitars, which is, much to my chagrin, a CANADIAN company, BTW, can still make Ovation clones, is because the patents on the Ovation Breadwinner, and Ovation GP ran out some time ago. Yes, I do like some of the Eastwood models, but NO, I DO NOT LIKE the Ovation clones!! Eastwood is well known for making so-called, "tribute guitars", of all kinds, but I don't know if any guitar company at all, be it, e.g., Ovation, Gibson, Vox, Mosrite, Gretsch, Martin, Ampeg, Teieso, Yamaha, Epiphone, Airline, National, Silvertone, etc., etc., has sued them for making mucho copies of their stuff yet. The operative word is, "YET"! It very well could be that Eastwood Guitars actually got permission from the various other guitar companies to make these copies, but I don't know how this is done? Or was it simply just plain old industrial espionage? They will continue to make Ovation clones because they can, I guess.
Mike S.
Ottawa, ON.,
CANADA
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Mr. Ovation
Posted 2019-02-13 7:59 PM (#547011 - in reply to #547010)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7209

Location: The Great Pacific Northwest

Mike S. - 2019-02-13 6:09 AM Hello, MWoody, To the best of my knowledge, the ONLY reason Eastwood Guitars, which is, much to my chagrin, a CANADIAN company, BTW, can still make Ovation clones, is because the patents on the Ovation Breadwinner, and Ovation GP ran out some time ago. Yes, I do like some of the Eastwood models, but NO, I DO NOT LIKE the Ovation clones!! Eastwood is well known for making so-called, "tribute guitars", of all kinds, but I don't know if any guitar company at all, be it, e.g., Ovation, Gibson, Vox, Mosrite, Gretsch, Martin, Ampeg, Teieso, Yamaha, Epiphone, Airline, National, Silvertone, etc., etc., has sued them for making mucho copies of their stuff yet. The operative word is, "YET"! It very well could be that Eastwood Guitars actually got permission from the various other guitar companies to make these copies, but I don't know how this is done? Or was it simply just plain old industrial espionage? They will continue to make Ovation clones because they can, I guess. Mike S. Ottawa, ON., CANADA

The key is the headstock.  No one would "confuse" an Eastwood with an Ovation.  That's how they do it.  Many of the round-back clones get shut down immediately, no so much due to the round back, but they copy the headstock design and it could be confused from a distance easily.  

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Mike S.
Posted 2019-02-15 8:35 AM (#547020 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?



Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 563

Location: Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
Hello, Mr. Ovation.
Thank you for the information. To the best of my knowledge, and please correctmme if I'm wrong on this, Eastwwod deals with mainly electric guitar, and/or bass, " tribute copies"; and so far, has NOT been copying the Ovation roundback acoustic design as of yet, as many others who have tried, and failed miserably to this point. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, as they say.
Mike S.,
Ottawa, ON.,
CANADA
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FlySig
Posted 2019-02-15 3:18 PM (#547024 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4025

Location: Utah
Nah, the new headstock is fine on new designs. There's nothing wrong with updating to appeal to the new generation of consumers. Just don't put the new headstock on the old models. That would be blasphemous.

The Mothership had some really nice stuff coming out just before it was closed down, including new aesthetics to please new generations. The American SX Main Street is a good example. A younger more raw aesthetic with Fishman electronics and Graph Tech Ratio tuning machines. Enough different to not be confused with "Your Grandpa's Era" but continues the brand motif of advancing technology and performance.
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alpep
Posted 2019-02-15 4:54 PM (#547026 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581

Location: NJ
I have to disagree about the fishman why buy an ovation then?
the ratio tuners can be problematic
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FlySig
Posted 2019-02-15 6:52 PM (#547030 - in reply to #547026)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4025

Location: Utah
alpep - 2019-02-15 3:54 PM

I have to disagree about the fishman why buy an ovation then?
the ratio tuners can be problematic


It comes down to marketing to the young uns. Fishman is a name brand used by many manufacturers and widely purchased after-market. Iirc, the VIP uses Fishman technology for the images. When a young adult goes into the store they may not know the Ovation name at all really, and perhaps the salesman doesn't know jack about the brand either. But Fishman may be known by both. Is it any better than an Ovation Op Pro? Maybe not at all. Same with Ratio tuners, they offer pizazz as a selling point which may be more important than offering a substantive improvement to the instrument.

It creates the image of the brand being fully modern, embracing the latest tech. Hanging on the wall next to other brands, the American SX Main Street appears to be just as up to date and applicable to the young musician.

Remember when we didn't trust anybody over 30? Guess what, now we are the old men! The stuff that was cool when we were young is no longer new or young, which means the young buyer sees it as stodgy old fashioned.

I'm hearing that the latest DW USA built guitars received significant improvements and were even better than the great guitars of 10 years ago. But to most buyers a "Legend" is an outdated 50 year old design. Adding new models and aesthetics to the product line seems smart to me, because we old guys can't buy enough guitars to keep the company afloat.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2019-02-15 8:43 PM (#547031 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1768

Location: When??
@FlySig...

+1
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guitarwannabee
Posted 2019-02-16 12:06 AM (#547035 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: RE: Stop! Okay?


Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 1476

Location: Michigan

+ 2

the dinosaurs could not accept change and that is why they went away .
not wanting to sound negative but i will bet you that most of us o.f.c. active members are edging up there in age and that we still post about how great the brand was and is and we need them to listen to us to put their business back into place. b.s.

ovation guitar co built a great instrument back in the days that was light years ahead of any guitar companies and became a player in the market , but as everything that was going so great back then

i think that they thought they could rely on their unique one of a kind cool guitar to stay profitable.

as the world evolves around change to sell and be profitable you need to change and look for a new generation of ovation fans to keep the company going forwards not backwards.

since the old folks are going away and not going to buy new guitars in the next 10-20 years or so the new generation is not impressed with the brand that ovation has  has portrayed in the last few years  so they have to change it 

and us old fa#*s  we don't have to like it       but we have to accept it.

i hope i don't get a vacation for this thread buy lets wake up its 2019.


sorry to sound morbid but it is true. GWB

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Love O Fair
Posted 2019-02-16 1:37 AM (#547036 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1768

Location: When??
+1 again, this time to guitarwannabee.

However.. as for the headstock element of the Ovation evolution equation-- I have to say that I'm on the traditional and historical side of the fence about that part. It is surprising that a company would so drastically change something that the guitar-playing world at large has for decades associated and identified with [any given brand]. A company's headstock shape is like the national flag on a navy ship. You don't just hoist new colors one day simply because the Captain feels like a change of motif. If DW were to create a new "brand", for example like Kaman did with Adamas, then it would seem appropriate (like the broccoli head), but for it to actually say "Ovation" on it.. hmmmm.. IMO there's just something askew about that.

Edited by Love O Fair 2019-02-16 1:45 AM
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FlySig
Posted 2019-02-16 9:26 AM (#547040 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: RE: Stop! Okay?



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4025

Location: Utah
I agree that the headstock should not be changed, but only on the existing models. New models can have different headstocks without damaging the brand identification. The new design does evoke the original design but is "fresh" and "new", too.

I think it looks great on my Adamas Custom Shop Viper.

http://www.ovationfanclub.com/megabbs/photos/get-photo.asp?photoid=...

http://www.ovationfanclub.com/megabbs/photos/get-photo.asp?photoid=...
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alpep
Posted 2019-02-16 3:13 PM (#547041 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581

Location: NJ
can you please explain to me why then the design of the martin d-18 d-28 d 45 does not have to change?????

your points are not totally valid.

remember when they put chevy motors in caddys? well what happened ? they switched back to caddy motors.

the fishman is an ok system some of them are problematic hence the problems with taylor guitars and plugging them in and martins for that matter.

I go to many open mics and gigs when ever I see someone with an ovation I ask why they bought it and most of these are players under 30... they tell me because it is unique and because it is NOT like the guitars their friends have.

the failure is not in the pickup system, not in the pickup, not in the headstock design, not in the contour bowl but in the marketing.
even the marketing of the imports has been sketchy.

Most players think ovation went out of business years ago.....lack of stage time, lack of advertising, lack of inventory in stores, etc etc etc.

the main reason why younger folks don't buy the guitars is because they don't know about them......

taylor made a big deal about the bolt on neck...ovation did that years before.....in fact I bet most don't even know the neck is bolted on.

the innovations that ovation made were not utilized to the brands advantage.

finally most younger players can only afford imports.... and more seasoned players are looking for bargains on the used market. .....

the exotic top series a great idea but the first generation of those guitars were far short of what they should have been..... no matter what hype you have heard or read. The tops were REALLY thick ....they fixed that this year....but you have a couple of years worth of guitars out there that are sub par IMHO....that could draw in the new player.

the preamp module should have been explored more... interchangeable preamps!!!! what a concept...keep developing the VIP... keep developing the idea... but what happens? they get abandoned and other companies pick up the ball.

remember the vxt? check out the new teleacoustic....basically the same technology but 10 years later and for much more $$$$$$$

I get it companies have to look forward and I have no issue with changing logos or pickup systems or whatever BUT you still have classic coke...along with the dz new flavors.... keep the flagshiip line pure but change in the lower level stuff.

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BCam
Posted 2019-02-16 4:20 PM (#547043 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?


Joined:
October 2014
Posts: 266

I would think that, with the right marketing, the technological uniqueness of Ovations would be attractive to younger buyers.
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BCam
Posted 2019-02-16 4:22 PM (#547044 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?


Joined:
October 2014
Posts: 266

I would think that, with the right marketing, the technological uniqueness of Ovations would be attractive to younger buyers.
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FlySig
Posted 2019-02-16 5:56 PM (#547046 - in reply to #547043)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4025

Location: Utah
BCam - 2019-02-16 3:20 PM

I would think that, with the right marketing, the technological uniqueness of Ovations would be attractive to younger buyers.


Agreed 100%. Ovation has continued to innovate even in their existing models. Fender really fell down on the job with marketing, perhaps quite intentionally, with Ovation/Adamas/Hamer. DW picked things up a bit but not enough. I do see more effort in the social media sphere to reach younger new customers. Back in the day there were full page ads in guitar magazines, plus many high profile artists playing O/A.

It looks to me like DW is expanding the line with new products like the Street series and the cajons, and incorporating different ideas into those instruments.

I think they need to tout the traditional line more, emphasizing the continued technological leadership and innovation of the brand.

And I hope they get a new USA factory online soon. The most recent production out of NH is very impressive.
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alpep
Posted 2019-02-17 11:48 AM (#547049 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581

Location: NJ
the marketing actually was faltering when it was with KMC.

when fender got it they just abandoned the brand
dw is trying but I don't think their heart is in totally in it... at least as much as usa stuff is concerened
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Standingovation
Posted 2019-02-18 7:27 PM (#547069 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?



Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6191

Location: Phoenix AZ
DW needs to do whatever they have to in order to turn a profit selling guitars. What they look like, where they are made, what kind of woods or electronics they have ... none of that stuff matters to DW. They bought the brand to make some business out of it, NOT to placate a bunch of nostalgic old fruggers like us. The Ovation we once knew and loved is in the rear-view mirror. Get used to it and cherish your memories.

If you want answers, look no farther than those famous lyrics by Bob Dylan ...

"The answer my friend, is p*ssing in the wind. The answer is p*ssing in the wind"
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nerdydave
Posted 2019-02-20 11:36 PM (#547100 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?


Joined:
August 2011
Posts: 887

Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah
And while you are at it cherish the old Ovations which many of us have. We need nothing more!!! Who cares what is coming out now? We already have the best!!
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jay
Posted 2019-02-21 10:35 AM (#547104 - in reply to #547069)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1249

Location: Texas

Amen Dave! 

"...none of that stuff matters to DW. They bought the brand to make some business out of it, NOT to placate a bunch of nostalgic old fruggers like us. The Ovation we once knew and loved is in the rear-view mirror. Get used to it and cherish your memories"

My Dylan response would be:

People are crazy and times are strange
I’m locked in tight, I’m out of range
I used to care, but things have changed

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moody, p.i.
Posted 2019-02-22 7:56 AM (#547112 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15651

Location: SoCal
"Time Passes. Things change."
J.D. Souther
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Darkbar
Posted 2019-02-22 4:28 PM (#547115 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4535

Location: Flahdaw
"The past is forgotten, the present a blur, and the future unknown. So drink my friends....drink and be merry."
Weaser
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Weaser P
Posted 2019-02-22 6:09 PM (#547116 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?


Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 5327

Location: Cicero, NY
Wow, I never sounded so eloquent.

Must have been a scotch night...
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ovie26
Posted 2019-02-23 10:55 PM (#547129 - in reply to #547005)
Subject: Re: Stop! Okay?


Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 162

Location: Pittsburgh
I get your point Flysig, but I don't agree. That's why I included "4 guitar-playing sons" in my post to DW. They range in age from 18 to 31 and they love the distinctive design of the Ovation headstock. DW can experiment with anything else, as Ovation did, but please, don't mess with the headstock. Al gets it when he references the Martin D-18, etc.

By the way Flysig, I really like the American SX Main Street mahogany top!
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