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Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...

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DanSavage
Posted 2018-12-02 6:45 PM (#545992)
Subject: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1815

Location: Lake Forest, CA

A few of you may remember the previous 1617 I retopped. (See: 1978 1617 Legend Rebuild...)

It was bought by a fellow OFCer, Paul. He absolutely loves that guitar. He asked me once how I managed to squeeze a Martin HD-28 into an Ovation body. He said he knows what the HD-28 sounds like because he's got one and he loves the 1617 better.

In the course to talking to him recently, he said he was playing the 1617 so much he was wearing it out and wanted me to build him another one just like it. We talked about it and I suggested using torrefied Adirondack top and braces.

He sent me an unremarkable 1977 1117-4 to use for the project. This was a perfect candidate because other than the VT-8 braces, it was in very good condition. The neck angle was perfect and there was only one small ding at the top of the head stock.



One of the key features of the 1617 was the brace pattern. It's a modified Martin X-brace. There were two distinct periods in this brace pattern -- pre-war and post-war. Pre-war uses what is known as forward-shifted braces and the post-war uses rearward-shifted braces. This guitar uses the pre-war braces.

There were two changes I wanted to make to this guitar's braces to more closely duplicate the true Martin pre-war braces. One of the changes Martin made to the post-war braces to help reduce warranty work was to use thicker wood for the X-braces and the two tone bars. On pre-war these were 1/4" thick. Post-war were 5/16" thick. This guitar's braces are 1/4" thick.



And, here's where we are today.



Paul really likes the look of the ebony bridge on the 1617. I was unable to obtain one to use so he asked me to stain this bridge black. He also asked to use the abalone Custom Legend rosette.

I used a different finishing system on this guitar. I decided to use Eastwood 2K Urethane rattle can paint directly on the wood and I'm very happy with the result. Not only is the finish water-clear, but it's also almost as hard as the original Ovation polyester.

I converted it to acoustic/electric by installing an Ovation OP-Pro Studio preamp. I used a Fishman thin undersaddle pickup. The guitar originally had a nylon-ish saddle, which seemed like it was deadening the sound a little bit. So, I replaced it with an unbleached bone saddle.



Paul also asked to change out the gold tuner knobs for ebony.



In short, the guitar sounds every bit as good as it looks. The light brace pattern makes the guitar responsive to the lightest touch, but also able to be driven hard without running out of head room. It is very bright and very, very loud.



Edited by DanSavage 2018-12-02 6:55 PM
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MWoody
Posted 2018-12-02 7:04 PM (#545993 - in reply to #545992)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13873

Location: Upper Left USA
Awesome job!
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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2018-12-02 7:34 PM (#545994 - in reply to #545992)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 417

Location: moline,illinois
Beautiful guitar,I had to go back and read the thread for the first 1617 just for the fun of seeing your work.
One wonders how you wear out a guitar in a couple of years that you need a replacement,he must have played it a lot!!!!

Where did you get a custom legend rosette,I've got an old 1119 I got for cheap off ebay that needs a new rosette and and other minor repairs??

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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-12-02 7:38 PM (#545995 - in reply to #545994)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1327

Location: Gnashville
Beautiful Dan.
Excited to be #1 on the runway!
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-12-02 7:49 PM (#545996 - in reply to #545993)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1815

Location: Lake Forest, CA
MWoody - 2018-12-02 5:04 PM

Awesome job!


Thanks!

I always love it when I finish a guitar because that's when the fine-tuning begins and a large part of that process is playing it -- a lot!
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-12-02 8:08 PM (#545997 - in reply to #545994)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1815

Location: Lake Forest, CA
2wheeldrummer - 2018-12-02 5:34 PM

Beautiful guitar,I had to go back and read the thread for the first 1617 just for the fun of seeing your work.
One wonders how you wear out a guitar in a couple of years that you need a replacement,he must have played it a lot!!!!

Where did you get a custom legend rosette,I've got an old 1119 I got for cheap off ebay that needs a new rosette and and other minor repairs??



He's a gigging musician so, yeah, he plays it a lot.

I did some luthery work a while ago and got that as part of the deal.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-12-02 8:28 PM (#545998 - in reply to #545995)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1815

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Jonmark Stone - 2018-12-02 5:38 PM

Beautiful Dan.
Excited to be #1 on the runway!

Thanks, Jonmark!

Yeah, buddy!

It's gonna be fun. Dualing Parlors!

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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-12-02 8:49 PM (#545999 - in reply to #545992)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 946

Location: What week?
Magnificent as always, Dan! Questions about the finish.. the Eastwood 2K rattle can. You said directly on the wood. Nothing else first? And the finish we see here is the final result? How many coats? Buff between coats? Again, your craftsmanship continues to stun me.
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2018-12-03 3:46 AM (#546000 - in reply to #545992)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10273

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Nice work. Nice Rosette.

Your Dueling Parlors caused me to dig out my 5741 for a strum.
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-12-03 8:43 AM (#546002 - in reply to #545992)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15232

Location: SoCal
Beautiful! But I wasn't invited over for the initial test flight?
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d'ovation
Posted 2018-12-03 8:56 AM (#546003 - in reply to #545992)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...


Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 727

Location: Canada
Congrats on another successful enhancement project - she sure looks sweet.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-12-03 11:14 AM (#546006 - in reply to #545999)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1815

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Love O Fair - 2018-12-02 6:49 PM

Magnificent as always, Dan! Questions about the finish.. the Eastwood 2K rattle can. You said directly on the wood. Nothing else first? And the finish we see here is the final result? How many coats? Buff between coats? Again, your craftsmanship continues to stun me.


Thanks, Al.

Nothing else first. I used to spray Minwax rattle can polyurethane, first as a 'primer' underneath the EW2K, then later just the Minwax. One of the things I didn't like about the Minwax was that it as fairly soft, like lacquer. This is because both are evaporative finishes. EW2K is a true two-part finish, so it cures to a harder final state.

Yes, this is the final result.

I spray coats differently than most. It's usually recommended to spray two dusting coats, then a fill coat. That is considered one coat of finish. I spray only fill coats. I usually will spray three fill coats on, alternating direction and letting the finish flash-off for 10-15 minutes between coats. Then I let it dry for 24 hours. Once dry, I'll wet-sand it with 400-grit to level the finish and remove any orange peeling. I will repeat this process until sufficient thickness is built up.

With Minwax, this took several days because of how thin the finish was once the solvents evaporated and the finish fully hardened. With the EW2K, it only takes 6 coats over two days. Because it's a 2-part finish, nothing evaporates and as a result the finish stays the same thickness as it was when it was sprayed.

As I wrote, it's a lot harder than the Minwax, so it's more scratch/scuff resistant. But it sands really nice and polishes up to a nice luster.

Edited by DanSavage 2018-12-03 11:36 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-12-03 11:37 AM (#546007 - in reply to #546000)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1815

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Old Man Arthur - 2018-12-03 1:46 AM

Nice work. Nice Rosette.

Your Dueling Parlors caused me to dig out my 5741 for a strum.


Thanks, Art.

Yes, I played Paul's 5741 after I received it and I like how these sound.
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jay
Posted 2018-12-03 12:13 PM (#546008 - in reply to #545992)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1199

Location: Texas
Once again...beautiful Dan...
What is JonMarks project?
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-12-03 1:19 PM (#546009 - in reply to #546008)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1815

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Thanks, Jay.

A re-top of the 5741, on the right in the above photo. I'm going to be re-topping mine, on the left.

His will get torrefied Adirondack and mine will get torrefied Englemann. Both will be A-braced with torrefied Adi spruce.

Both will get shell purfling, his probably abalone and mine maybe black MOP. His will have tortoise-shell binding and mine plain cream.

His will have the standard 5741 rosette. Mine will have an inlaid Custom Balladeer rosette.

Lastly, I'm thinking about glossing my neck/head stock. His will remain stock.

Neither will be sunburst.

Edited by DanSavage 2018-12-03 1:20 PM
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-12-03 1:49 PM (#546010 - in reply to #545992)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 946

Location: What week?
Thanks for the good info, Dan. Funny.. I went to read more about the Eastwood 2K and saw your review and the 1117 photos on their site posted "an hour ago". Looks like we're both having an Eastwood day. Thanks again for the tips.






Edited by Love O Fair 2018-12-03 1:52 PM
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arumako
Posted 2018-12-04 1:31 AM (#546012 - in reply to #546009)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 803

Location: Yokohama, Japan
DanSavage - 2018-12-03 3:19 AM

Thanks, Jay.

A re-top of the 5741, on the right in the above photo. I'm going to be re-topping mine, on the left.

His will get torrefied Adirondack and mine will get torrefied Englemann. Both will be A-braced with torrefied Adi spruce.

Both will get shell purfling, his probably abalone and mine maybe black MOP. His will have tortoise-shell binding and mine plain cream.

His will have the standard 5741 rosette. Mine will have an inlaid Custom Balladeer rosette.

Lastly, I'm thinking about glossing my neck/head stock. His will remain stock.

Neither will be sunburst.


WOW! Been away for a couple of days and look at all that's gone down! That 1117-4 rebuild is beautiful, and your information about Martin bracing was insightful and informative. As usual thanks for the thoroughly entertaining write-up. Did you use hide glue for the braces or Hysol 0151? Would also love to hear your opinion regarding torrefied X-bracing verses torrefied A-bracing...would the difference between standard X-bracing verses standard A-bracing (over a torrefied platform) apply here? Sure wish I could get those super cool urethane and poly finishes "in a can" that are available over there! Sounds like it makes easy work of an otherwise difficult task.

Your Dualing Parlors project sounds exciting. The specs look really impressive! Jonmark Stone's in for a real treat. Thanks for sharing Dan!
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-12-04 10:50 AM (#546013 - in reply to #546002)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1815

Location: Lake Forest, CA
moody, p.i. - 2018-12-03 6:43 AM

Beautiful! But I wasn't invited over for the initial test flight?


Thanks!

Yeah, the initial stages are pretty boring. Mostly a lot of tuning, de-tuning, make a change, tune, de-tune, etc...

But, all of that is done and if you'd like to stop by for a visit I'll be home every night but tonight.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-12-04 11:11 AM (#546015 - in reply to #546012)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1815

Location: Lake Forest, CA
arumako - 2018-12-03 11:31 PM

WOW! Been away for a couple of days and look at all that's gone down! That 1117-4 rebuild is beautiful, and your information about Martin bracing was insightful and informative. As usual thanks for the thoroughly entertaining write-up. Did you use hide glue for the braces or Hysol 0151? Would also love to hear your opinion regarding torrefied X-bracing verses torrefied A-bracing...would the difference between standard X-bracing verses standard A-bracing (over a torrefied platform) apply here? Sure wish I could get those super cool urethane and poly finishes "in a can" that are available over there! Sounds like it makes easy work of an otherwise difficult task.

Your Dualing Parlors project sounds exciting. The specs look really impressive! Jonmark Stone's in for a real treat. Thanks for sharing Dan!


Hi Ken,

Yes, I used hide glue, specifically, Old Brown Glue, for the braces.

Yep. The difference between X-brace and A-brace is the same regardless of whether they're torrefied or not. The torrefied examples just sound better.

YVW.

Dan
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-12-04 5:09 PM (#546019 - in reply to #546013)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15232

Location: SoCal
DanSavage - 2018-12-04 8:50 AM

moody, p.i. - 2018-12-03 6:43 AM

Beautiful! But I wasn't invited over for the initial test flight?


Thanks!

Yeah, the initial stages are pretty boring. Mostly a lot of tuning, de-tuning, make a change, tune, de-tune, etc...

But, all of that is done and if you'd like to stop by for a visit I'll be home every night but tonight.


This may not be the best week. No band practice. Sunday I'm making a mad dash to Phoenix to give Witko his torrefied GC. But next week.....
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arumako
Posted 2018-12-05 4:10 AM (#546022 - in reply to #546019)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 803

Location: Yokohama, Japan
DanSavage - 2018-12-04 8:50 AM
But, all of that is done and if you'd like to stop by for a visit I'll be home every night but tonight.


moody, p.i. - 2018-12-03 6:43 AM
This may not be the best week. No band practice. Sunday I'm making a mad dash to Phoenix to give Witko his torrefied GC. But next week.....


Post video post GC delivery (if it's not too much trouble), please... which brings up an interesting question for moody, p.i. - is the GC a Savage O or a Mother O?


Edited by arumako 2018-12-05 4:12 AM
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-12-05 6:13 AM (#546023 - in reply to #545992)
Subject: Re: Paul Soltys' 1977 1117-4 Legend...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15232

Location: SoCal
Mother O. fall of 69 - early 1970, winged bridge. Same as in the 1970 catalog.....
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