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How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?

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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2018-08-23 11:03 PM (#545040)
Subject: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 408

Location: moline,illinois
Hey guys I'm venturing into the world of learning about repairing Ovation/adamas guitars,a friend of mine who owns a music store and is a luthier is offering classes on guitar repair and we started my first project tonight.
I recently accquired an adamas 1588-7 and the action on it is high and you can see the neck dives down as it crosses the body,we took the neck off tonight and it looks like someone else tried to do a neck reset but got the geometry wrong,I took in my adamas 1688-2 that had been reset at the mothership along with the 1588-7 so I could show Matt(my friend who runs the store) a sample of what the proper setup of an adamas I was and I explained to him the floating fretboard setup you can see on the 1688-2 where there is a small lift on the fretboard extension as it crosses the body helping to keep the neck angle correct as it goes toward the bridge.
Has anyone created the floating fretboard effect when resetting a neck and what material did you use,it looks like epoxy on my 1688-2 but to do it properly do you build it up on the body?build up under the fretboard extension? or do you think they had some kind of jig/mold they used at the mothership when they put the necks on to create the proper thickness and shape of the resin under the fretboard extension.


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noah
Posted 2018-08-24 9:28 PM (#545055 - in reply to #545040)
Subject: RE: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 1667

Location: SoCal

 

Are you referring to the secret, magic black filler?

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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2018-08-25 10:18 AM (#545056 - in reply to #545040)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 408

Location: moline,illinois
Yes,I want to recreate the effect when I reattach the neck to the 1588-7.
Attached are pics of my 1688-2 that I'm using as a guide.



(IMG_1583.JPG)



(IMG_1587.JPG)



(IMG_1588.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments IMG_1583.JPG (35KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1587.JPG (41KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1588.JPG (36KB - 0 downloads)
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-25 1:34 PM (#545057 - in reply to #545056)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1805

Location: Lake Forest, CA
To create a floating fret board, you could just not glue the fret board extension to the top.

That's what I did with my Frankenvation.
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-08-26 10:09 AM (#545060 - in reply to #545057)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1317

Location: Gnashville

My Adamas II is fairly early... 83. The extension is not attached/glued to the top at all. Truly floating. For many years, I played winters in Colorado and the rest of the year beach side. Each time I returned to the humidity, the tip of the extension would curl down and vibrate against the top so I used a thin strip of felt there. When I got back to the thin air in the mountains, it would straighten out again. Could be why the mother ship eventually started attaching them? Anyway, not an answer. Just an observation.



Edited by Jonmark Stone 2018-08-26 10:13 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-26 3:45 PM (#545063 - in reply to #545060)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1805

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Jonmark Stone - 2018-08-26 8:09 AM

My Adamas II is fairly early... 83. The extension is not attached/glued to the top at all. Truly floating.



I did that intentionally to my Frankenvation because I'd planned to eventually use the 1537 neck on another rebuild and I didn't want to hassle with separating the neck from the 1778T body.
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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2018-08-26 3:55 PM (#545064 - in reply to #545040)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 408

Location: moline,illinois
Thanks for the input,I understand you don't have to have the fretboard extension fixed to the top I'm just concerned about creating a weak spot where the extension meets the body and I don't want the neck to be able to shift if theres nothing holding it to the top.
I looked at my 1688-8 which I don't think has ever had the neck off and the last few frets don't have anything under them but it is affixed to the top where the fretboard crosses the body from about the 14th fret to the 20th fret but not the full width of the neck,this is a 1994 model.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-27 1:12 PM (#545068 - in reply to #545064)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1805

Location: Lake Forest, CA
The fret board is pretty stiff on its own, so you don't really need to worry about a weak spot.

Even with a single neck bolt, such as are used on super shallow bowls, once the bolt is tightened, the neck isn't going to move, twist or shift.

There's way too much friction between the neck and the body for that to happen. It's a pretty solid affair.

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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-08-27 1:43 PM (#545069 - in reply to #545040)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 929

Location: What week?
... and when you learn how pluck it and make it twang.. well.. just think of the possibilities.
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MWoody
Posted 2018-08-27 2:47 PM (#545070 - in reply to #545040)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13869

Location: Upper Left USA
I just caught up with this thread, here's some thoughts.

Can you remove material from under the fretboard and make a floating neck? Maybe... I would add epoxy and and a strip of carbon fiber.

If a floating neck starts to buzz? I have stuffed felt strap washers, credit card shims and picks underneath as a quick fix. Eventually humidity and normalization will fix it, everything moves on occasion.
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MWoody
Posted 2018-08-27 2:53 PM (#545071 - in reply to #545040)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13869

Location: Upper Left USA
Extra thoughts:

I had a 1537 that showed the "12th fret hump" and had the frets filed down to nothing as the fix. I worked with a local Luthier to pull all frets, re contour the neck and refret (required cutting deeper fret slots on the end). He wasn't familiar with a floating fb and frowned a lot until he "got it".

Now it is a new neck.
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FlySig
Posted 2018-08-28 6:49 AM (#545077 - in reply to #545040)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 3796

Location: Utah
Woody, any feedback on how the 1537 fretboard wood was to work with. My understanding is it is the same resin impregnated walnut as an Adamas. My frets are starting to show some wear, and I prefer slightly larger frets to the factory ones, but don't know if there's anything different to be aware of in terms of the wood.
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MWoody
Posted 2018-08-28 3:36 PM (#545081 - in reply to #545040)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13869

Location: Upper Left USA
It went quite well. This resulted in reducing material in the fretboard tail so I was concerned.
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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2018-08-28 11:03 PM (#545085 - in reply to #545040)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 408

Location: moline,illinois
I had my next lesson/class tonight we cleaned up the neck heel and body where the neck attaches,whoever did the previous neck work put some kind of rubber cement on the neck heel and some little shims that looked like they were cut from the same kind of material as the saddle shims you see on most ovations,once these were removed and the black gunk cleaned up the neck fit almost perfect.
To create the floating fretboard effect Matt suggested we put a small shim under the end of the extension(about the 23rd fret) to help compensate for the dropoff,the shim was spruce and about .050 thickness and lifted the fretboard extension just enough that it created the same string spacing as I have on the 1688-2 I brought as an example,we glued the shim to the bottom of the extension then used epoxy to attach the fretboard extension to the top and fill the gap created by creating the floating fretboard effect with the shim.
The action looks like its going to be excellent all the way up to the 24th fret,were letting the epoxy setup and will continue thursday checking the level of the frets and hopefully stringing it up.
Dan:Matt agreed the neck bolts will hold it in place securely the epoxy was just to fill the gap under the fretboard extension.
MWoody: carbon fiber would have been cool to use but I was working with what was at hand so spruce and epoxy was our choice tonight but if I ever do it again I'll have to check into getting carbon fiber strips.
Attached are pics of the disassembled neck and reassembled guitar,I meant to get one of the shim but got to involved it getting the neck back on tonight,



Edited by 2wheeldrummer 2018-08-28 11:13 PM




(IMG_1589.JPG)



(IMG_1594.JPG)



(IMG_1591.JPG)



(IMG_1593.JPG)



(IMG_1595.JPG)



(IMG_1598.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments IMG_1589.JPG (72KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1594.JPG (59KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1591.JPG (65KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1593.JPG (48KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1595.JPG (47KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments IMG_1598.JPG (51KB - 0 downloads)
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-08-31 8:28 PM (#545102 - in reply to #545085)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1317

Location: Gnashville
Don't think I've ever seen a bound Adamas fretboard.
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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2018-09-01 4:38 PM (#545109 - in reply to #545102)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 408

Location: moline,illinois
Jonmark Stone - 2018-08-31 8:28 PM

Don't think I've ever seen a bound Adamas fretboard.


I don't recall seeing bound fretboards on any other adamas I's but if you noticed it's also ebony with the elite style abalone inlays so I'm guessing this was a custom order guitar.

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MWoody
Posted 2018-09-01 8:09 PM (#545112 - in reply to #545040)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13869

Location: Upper Left USA
Nice!
It has that look of a custom order with the Elite Ebony neck but in an excellent way.
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DetlefMichel
Posted 2018-09-12 5:32 AM (#545215 - in reply to #545040)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 519

Location: Muenster/Germany
That´s another dream guitar. Even for someone who already has some of the kind.
I would consider changing the golden metal machine knobs to white or pearloid, would match the overall colours of the guitar better and makes it less head-heavy. And the machines would look better in satin chrome then gold. Btw the new Schaller M6 mini will fit exactly and habe a better ratio (1:18).
I changed the golden machines on my black 1885 to black Schallers with rosewood knobs and on my black 1687 to Schaller M6 ruthenium with ebony knobs. I work in the fashion business and I must say Ovation never had the sure instinct for colours.
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DetlefMichel
Posted 2018-09-12 9:39 AM (#545218 - in reply to #545040)
Subject: RE: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 519

Location: Muenster/Germany

Here the Adamas with the black schallers

Before: typical golden type, and the axles were too long! Schaller makes different lenghts, the new ones will make a better string angle on the nut. (Remember that´s why many people prefer slothead guitars)

And after:

I think when I have a high-end guitar I may take a closer look at those things.

 

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kentrookie
Posted 2018-09-14 10:22 AM (#545234 - in reply to #545040)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?


Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 194

Location: Seattle
Detlemichel .....question. What is the red wrapping on some of the strings?
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DetlefMichel
Posted 2018-09-19 10:07 AM (#545276 - in reply to #545040)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 519

Location: Muenster/Germany
kentrookie: These are Thomastik "plectrum" strings and that is the standard wrapping of the wound strings for the .11-.50 set. I use these strings because of the very low tension and the low noise they make when you change chords and the balanced, mellow sound. You can see that even the G or the A octave string are flat roundwounds. Really the best on 12string guitars.
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-09-20 5:28 PM (#545290 - in reply to #545276)
Subject: Re: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1317

Location: Gnashville
Those black tuners look great. I've got a -5 Adamas I may have to try that on.
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DetlefMichel
Posted 2018-10-26 12:28 PM (#545646 - in reply to #545040)
Subject: RE: How do you create the floating fretboard effect when resetting an Adamas I neck?



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 519

Location: Muenster/Germany

DOn´t forget to order the shorter axle type, see pic of the Schaller M6 ruthenium machines on my Adamas:

Better string angle!


Before:Too long, I don´t understand why Ovation ordered these for their guitars.



Edited by DetlefMichel 2018-10-26 12:36 PM
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