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SONGWRITING

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DaveKell
Posted 2018-03-30 1:51 PM (#541945 - in reply to #541943)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING


Joined:
November 2011
Posts: 693

Location: Fort Worth, TX
Love O Fair - 2018-03-30 11:35 AM

Dave, if it's women you want to like the song-- while the part about shutting of the car and turning off the light in the dark with a stranger she just met may sound exciting from a typical drinking man's point of view.. I think it might come off sounding kinda scary-creepy for a typical woman's taste. Then again, if the listener is the type that normally leaves bars and gets into strange mens' vehicles, she may dig it.. lol. Depends on which women you're trying to reach, I guess. You said that you're into wording and phrasing suggestions.. so that's just my $0.02 worth.





Since I didn't get married until I was 26 (to a then 19 year old I'm still with 39 years later), I actually came across quite a number of those women. Society as it is all these years later, I'm sure they those women have proliferated to a great extent. And even then, it might appeal to other women's fantasies.
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Darkbar
Posted 2018-03-30 4:02 PM (#541947 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4500

Location: Flahdaw
"And even then, it might appeal to other women's fantasies."

Exactly! "Good" women habitually read trash novels that usually include some wayward rogue of a man (with a big chest and bulging biceps) who essentially rapes the innocent virgin in a night of half drunken debauchery. They eat that stuff up!
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-03-30 4:32 PM (#541949 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 894

Location: Spin axis of a California map
Okay, okay.. I should have said "ladies". But you said "women", so I digress to the part of my post that starts with "Then again...".

Or.. a new recommendation. Just reword it with something like, "rapes the innocent virgin in a night of half drunken debauchery". Wow, hey, I think I may be onto penning a whole new tune here! I'll get back to yas.





Edited by Love O Fair 2018-03-30 4:37 PM
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nerdydave
Posted 2018-03-30 9:53 PM (#541951 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING


Joined:
August 2011
Posts: 662

Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah
Only 39 years??
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Darkbar
Posted 2018-03-31 6:20 AM (#541954 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4500

Location: Flahdaw
Speaking of "a night of drunken debauchery", I fully expect the song "Duane's Eyes" to be revealing look into the twisted mind and gut-wrenching history of DaveKell. Otherwise I'll be extremely disappointed...
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-03-31 2:16 PM (#541957 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 894

Location: Spin axis of a California map
>>>twisted mind and gut-wrenching history of DaveKell<<<

Since it's an Allman thing, perhaps something about a whipping post?
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Darkbar
Posted 2018-03-31 4:35 PM (#541959 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4500

Location: Flahdaw
Now THAT'S funny!
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DaveKell
Posted 2018-04-01 10:13 AM (#541971 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: RE: SONGWRITING


Joined:
November 2011
Posts: 693

Location: Fort Worth, TX
Here's another of my latest lyrics. It's one I affectionately call DUANE'S EYES. Total time to write 13:11. Realizing it's on a public forum I had to show a lot of restraint (yeah, I know. I was surprised too).

He sat alone in the corner of a smoky dark bar
I watched him in my opioid haze
I said "man I know you from somewhere"
He said "I get that a lot these days"
He invited me to sit and placed his hand on my thigh
I wondered what was goin' on
He said "they call me Skydog & I've never known why"
Before I knew it daylight was gone
He said "let's go to my bus, it's parked out back"
In the dark I saw a sign on its side
With bad letter spacing cos the signpainter was a hack
With the All man Brothers Band I ride

DUANE'S EYES, WHEN HE LOOKED AT ME
I GOT A SHIVER UP & DOWN MY SPINE
IF I WAS TIED TIGHT TO A WHIPPING POST
THE FEELING COULDN'T HAVE BEEN MORE FINE
I TOLD MYSELF NOT TO WORRY, THIS IS ONLY BROTHERLY LOVE
WE DID THE TOUR BUS TANGO INTO THE NIGHT
BUT IT WAS GREGG I WAS DREAMIN' OF

Duane got pissed and said "you're batshit crazy
I'm the brother of your dreams
And if you try to bust my bubble again
Nobody's gonna hear your screams"
Trying to defuse the tension, I picked up his guitar
I said "brother do I have a song for you"
I ripped into one I wrote called Georgia in Atlanta
He said "is that the best you can do?"
I tried to put out his fire with another I wrote
A song called How Did We Get Here
He grabbed his guitar and said "we'll play it like this"
Then he opened me another beer

DUANE'S EYES, WHEN HE LOOKED AT ME
I GOT A SHIVER UP & DOWN MY SPINE
IF I WAS TIED TIGHT TO A WHIPPING POST
THE FEELING COULDN'T HAVE BEEN MORE FINE
I TOLD MYSELF NOT TO WORRY, THIS IS ONLY BROTHERLY LOVE
WE DID THE TOUR BUS TANGO INTO THE NIGHT
BUT IT WAS GREGG I WAS DREAMIN' OF

(tag)
I leaned a lesson that night, one I'm sure will take me far
When I find myself in an opioid haze I'll stay out of any dark bar

Edited by DaveKell 2018-04-01 10:16 AM
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-04-01 12:53 PM (#541977 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 894

Location: Spin axis of a California map
Boy, that's some racy stuff. Good job, Dave! But I can't remember for sure the details of the lyric challenge, so remind me.. was this supposed to be based on true fact.. or no?
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DaveKell
Posted 2018-04-01 1:08 PM (#541978 - in reply to #541977)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING


Joined:
November 2011
Posts: 693

Location: Fort Worth, TX
Love O Fair - 2018-04-01 12:53 PM

Boy, that's some racy stuff. Good job, Dave! But I can't remember for sure the details of the lyric challenge, so remind me.. was this supposed to be based on true fact.. or no?


I don't recall stipulations. I incorporated every title Darkbar ascribed to me in another thread into the lyrics.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-04-01 8:37 PM (#541981 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 894

Location: Spin axis of a California map
@DaveKell - >>>I incorporated every title Darkbar ascribed to me<<<

Yep. I noticed that. Nice touch. I was kind of thinking you might toss us a curve and make the whole story content about a case of cataracts or macular degeneration.




Edited by Love O Fair 2018-04-01 8:45 PM
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Darkbar
Posted 2018-04-02 5:41 AM (#541990 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4500

Location: Flahdaw
I hate to admit it, and will probably regret saying this, but that was pretty good.

There, now I can go back to taking potshots and hurling subtle insults. Carry on.....
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DaveKell
Posted 2018-04-02 8:19 AM (#541994 - in reply to #541990)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING


Joined:
November 2011
Posts: 693

Location: Fort Worth, TX
Darkbar - 2018-04-02 5:41 AM

I hate to admit it, and will probably regret saying this, but that was pretty good.

There, now I can go back to taking potshots and hurling subtle insults. Carry on.....


It was only an exercise in the Sir Paul McCartney method of songwriting. I might have mentioned this before. I saw him being interviewed about it. He said something to the effect of "there are words and phrases swirling around us in the ether we exist in. You just have to open your mind to reach out and grab them", at which point in the interview he was raising his hand in the air looking like he was grasping something. In this case however, I had to wait for specific words and phrases to float by.

The best potshot of all time you took was our previous back and forth about the Allman's where I mentioned every song title on an album save for Little Martha. Of course you spotted it and zinged me good. I still read it when I need a good laugh.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-04-02 10:17 AM (#541998 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 894

Location: Spin axis of a California map
Darkbar & DaveKell... y'all crack me up. I can only imagine what it would be like if you two were kid brothers in the back seat on a long road trip. Mom trying to come up with road games and songs to sing, and Dad yearning for the late afternoon moment when a hotel with a bar appears on the horizon. Gotta love this family.
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DaveKell
Posted 2018-04-02 10:27 AM (#541999 - in reply to #541998)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING


Joined:
November 2011
Posts: 693

Location: Fort Worth, TX
Love O Fair - 2018-04-02 10:17 AM

Darkbar & DaveKell... y'all crack me up. I can only imagine what it would be like if you two were kid brothers in the back seat on a long road trip. Mom trying to come up with road games and songs to sing, and Dad yearning for the late afternoon moment when a hotel with a bar appears on the horizon. Gotta love this family.


Mom would've liked him best.
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Oddball
Posted 2018-04-03 11:16 PM (#542034 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING


Joined:
March 2007
Posts: 795

Location: CA
Last Gunfighter's Lament

It's a chilly wind that moans tonight
'Neath another dusty moon
Blows me down to a one-horse town
And the Silver Creek Saloon

Another chance to rest up from the game
With another game of chance
Another night to hope some young man
Don't want to do the devil's dance

Well I rode with Frank and Jesse
Back in '68
I was dealing cards when Hickok
Got his aces and eights

I knew John Wesley Hardin
Bill Bonney and the rest
Now the devils' the only one who knows
Which was the very best

Chorus
Well the West it ain't so wild no more
Except Bill Cody's show
The Injun wars are over
And there's no more buffalo
And the men who lived life by the gun
By the gun they fell
There's just one left to know the creed
Just one left to tell

Got my back against the wall
One eye on the door.
One hand 'neath the table
On my nickel .44

Red Eye whiskey's what we're drinkin'
Five-card is our game
And the barmaid she'a a smilin'
Cause someone told her my name

Chorus 2
Then the swinging doors swing open
And I catch the glimpse of steel
I see the smoke and lightning
And I hear the thunder peel
Now the .44's a jumpin
And a body hits the floor
Two lifeless eyes wide with surprise
And I hear the silence roar.

I'll be ridin' out 'for morning
For so long that's how it's been
With a heart a bit more empty
And a soul more full of sin

I know somewhere I pine box waits
And a bullet wears my name
And they'll lay me 'neath a dusty moon
Last loser of the game.
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nerdydave
Posted 2018-04-03 11:37 PM (#542035 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING


Joined:
August 2011
Posts: 662

Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah
Got a tune to go with it??
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Oddball
Posted 2018-04-04 11:32 AM (#543049 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING


Joined:
March 2007
Posts: 795

Location: CA
Tune, yes. Never knew much about recording, tho. One of these days...
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DaveKell
Posted 2018-04-04 11:46 AM (#543050 - in reply to #543049)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING


Joined:
November 2011
Posts: 693

Location: Fort Worth, TX
Oddball - 2018-04-04 11:32 AM

Tune, yes. Never knew much about recording, tho. One of these days...


All I can say is WOW!!! Being in Texas, I've had some ideas for a western song to write. I don't see much point in it now. This is great. Thanks for getting involved in the discussion. Mind if I try to set it to music to play at my jam this Friday?
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-04-04 12:40 PM (#543051 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 894

Location: Spin axis of a California map
Good one, Oddball! I enjoyed the lyric read. I hope we get to hear it "one of these days". Kind of reminds me of Glendon Swarthout's "The Shootist", when J.B. Books turned the corner into the 20th century and finally found a bullet with his 19th century name on it.

Speaking of which.. movie buffs may be interested to know that while the film version story took place in Carson City, Nevada.. the original book version was in El Paso, Texas.




Edited by Love O Fair 2018-04-04 12:49 PM
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DaveKell
Posted 2018-04-06 8:41 AM (#543075 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: RE: SONGWRITING


Joined:
November 2011
Posts: 693

Location: Fort Worth, TX
I was at a songwriters circle last night at a local coffee shop and when I went in and heard the first couple of guitarists I instantly felt my guitar would serve me better if it was busted up for kindling wood in my fireplace. As I listened to one of the most awesome fingerstyle players I've ever sat across from playing a song he wrote I was struck by the fact that his lyrics had no impact on me or anybody else there. In fact, every song he "wrote" seemed to be for the purpose of adding background to his incredible guitar chops. I reluctantly played my first song as my turn came and to my surprise the gathering came alive. In fact, a long period of discussion followed it. I was, as I continually am, amazed at the range of praise I get for what I write. Now if I had just learned to pick like THAT guy!

I honestly have no idea why I even attempt this anymore. The world is overpopulated with songwriters and literally thousands of songs collect dust on every publishers shelves in the world. Maybe if I was still a younger guy with a fire in my belly I'd allow myself the thought that this might be worth pursuing. As it is now though I have no idea why this compulsion to write persists. Hell, even at my age if I could sing like Darkbar I might feel there was a point to it.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-04-06 9:42 AM (#543080 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 894

Location: Spin axis of a California map
Wow, Dave.. was that a suicide note?
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DaveKell
Posted 2018-04-06 9:57 AM (#543084 - in reply to #543080)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING


Joined:
November 2011
Posts: 693

Location: Fort Worth, TX
Love O Fair - 2018-04-06 9:42 AM

Wow, Dave.. was that a suicide note?


Haha. THAT is a comment I'd expect from Darkbar! No, it's just me trying to talk myself out of this compulsion I have to keep writing. I see no ultimate purpose for it and have no idea why I continue with it. There is the fact that two people have expressed an interest in including a song of mine on their next recording session, but neither of them are names anybody would recognize with the exception of a rising star in Texas music circles. So what? I've already learned from a friend of over 40 years in Nashville who has had some good songs recorded by top names that there is incredibly little money to be made from the pursuit. Dog grooming is infinitely more lucrative. The old guy who puts on the jam I go to every week got me started on this and at times I'd like to punch him in the mouth for it. Maybe my dad was right when he laughed at me for it.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-04-06 10:34 AM (#543089 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 894

Location: Spin axis of a California map
I guess it all depends on if you go into it as an artist or an entrepreneur. Funny thing about art-- so many people consider it as a worthy endeavor only if others see/hear/read/approve it. That's very wrong. At least in my opinion it is. What turns out as my best work is always.. always.. what makes ME happy. If someone else likes how it sounds, then dandy. If not, then it just isn't THEIR fancy. TFB. It's still art. Now, I've read you time and time again as saying that you are not into music to impress others or to gain fortune or fame. So which is it? I mean, haven't you ever painted a sign that just blew your mind in the end, but ended up getting "meh" reviews from others? I'd bet so. But you knew that it was you who was right because they aren't sign painters, right? Same thing here. It sounds to me like you need to take that guitar and go art yourself.

Edited by Love O Fair 2018-04-06 10:44 AM
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Mark in Boise
Posted 2018-04-06 1:03 PM (#543093 - in reply to #541785)
Subject: Re: SONGWRITING


Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12623

Location: Boise, Idaho
I basically write for a living and it's really boring. I can also edit my work or someone else's work until I get tired of it or a deadline comes. I could do the same with songs and I'm sure I'd eventually find that to be boring. I agree there are tons of great songs out there already. We have a local songwriter's group that I've considered, but I just don't know that I want to spend the time writing my own stuff. I have figured out that I'm happy playing and I'm happier playing and singing. If performing didn't make me happier still, then I don't see the point, unless performing was a key motivator for me to keep playing and singing.
My point is, if writing makes you happy, do it. If your group motivates you to keep writing, great. If you think at 65 you have time to become a commercially successful songwriter, get real. When I get to be 65 (next week), I want to do what makes me happy.
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