The Ovation Fan Club
The Ovation Fan Club
Forum Search | Statistics | User Listing Forums | Calendars | Albums | Language
Your are viewing as a Guest. ( logon | register )

Random quote: "It's much too late to do anything about rock & roll now ..." - Jerry Garcia / Grateful Dead



Jump to page : 12
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
Another bad guitar shipping moment

View previous thread :: View next thread
   Members Forums -> General PostingMessage format
 
ProfessorBB
Posted 2017-05-15 12:47 PM (#535174)
Subject: Another bad guitar shipping moment



Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5727

Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains

I sold a 21 year old very lightly played last of the US models Guild Starfire IV to a guy in Wisconsin. Bought a box and packing materials from UPS and shipped it off insured. When it arrived, the box had two big holes punched in the side and there was little doubt there had been a bad blow to the carton. The buyer claimed that the neck was cracked as a result. He had two guitar repair shops inspect it. One said he couldn't fix it, the other said he could but wouldn't guaranty it.  The buyer shipped the guitar back to my local UPS office and I refunded his money, then initiated a claim. Three months passed while UPS kept denying the claim and asking for more information. They sent it out to a reputable guitar repair shop which reported back that it was just a finish mark and no damage. I had a second shop inspect the guitar and they reported that it was definitely a crack caused by a sharp blow. They said they could repair the slight cosmetic mark, but advised against doing anything more unless and until the break was more apparent. They said the headstock could snap off with nothing more than a slight nudge against a microphone stand, or it could go another 50 years and never break. It was my expert witness against UPS's.  Since the crack is almost invisible, I decided to accept UPS's offer to reimburse me for the cosmetic repair plus a refund of the shipping charges. I'll keep the money and the guitar is going back up on the wall.  I'm not impressed with UPS and their insurance claims department, although this was my first negative experience in this regard. Hats off to Al and all you others who regularly ship guitars around the states and across the borders. I admire your patience and confidence with shippers.

Top of the page Bottom of the page
2wheeldrummer
Posted 2017-05-15 5:43 PM (#535181 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 327

Location: moline,illinois
Sorry to hear about your troubles and the damage to a rare guitar.
I DONT like UPS,lot's of bad experiences not just with guitars and I have a UPS My Choice account that supposed to help avoid a lot of the hassles that I always have to deal with when their the shipper.
I think the rule for all insurance is deny the claim for as long as you can and hope the poor schmuck who's getting scr*wed will give up.


Top of the page Bottom of the page
Slipkid
Posted 2017-05-15 6:22 PM (#535184 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment



Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9298

Location: south east Michigan
Yeah... it's an uphill battle with UPS. They outsource the entire process so they don't come off being the bad guy. They subcontract claims out to people who are job it is to dispense as much red tape as they can and to say "NO".
Top of the page Bottom of the page
stephent28
Posted 2017-05-15 7:58 PM (#535191 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment



Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13265

Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066
I hate UPS with a passion. I still have about a 25% success rate using them. FedEx and USPS for me but unfortunately those shipping to me still use the turds. And I have NEVER received a UPS package sooner than promised but I frequently get FedEx and USPS a day or two early.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Damon67
Posted 2017-05-15 8:06 PM (#535192 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment



Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6900

Location: Jet City
Fedex is all I use to ship. I've had issues with both UPS and USPS. USPS has damaged more than any other shipper in my experience. The last time I used 'em was shipping a Takamine. It looked like the box had been run over, totally smashed, the guitar was wasted, and they still left it on Mike's doorstep, no note, no nothing.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Mr. Ovation
Posted 2017-05-16 4:27 AM (#535200 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: RE: Another bad guitar shipping moment


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 6866

Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
ProfessorBB YMMV, but I have never had a problem with UPS insurance and always received prompt payment, but.... I do one thing different. Once a person buys something... it's theirs. They bought insurance but UPS wants the "origination" point to submit claim... and that's what I do. I have never had to get more than a quote from a reputable dealer. I keep the buyer informed of the progress, and I'll usually send them the claim amount as soon as I get notified from UPS that a check for xxx is on its way.

I know you were trying to do the right thing by taking the guitar back, but to UPS that looks like attempted fraud as it was your item in the first place. When you have a sales receipt, a customer claim (from your customer) and a quote for repair... It's a whole different ball game and rarely does it take more than a week or two for the check to come in.

Now I have to make a caveat on this... of the 100's of shipments I have sent and received over the past 15 or so years... I only had to submit two claims.

If whatever you are shipping can't be packed to handle being dropped from 6 feet without damage, don't ship it.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
ProfessorBB
Posted 2017-05-16 9:04 AM (#535204 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment



Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5727

Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains
I agree, Miles. UPS questioned the sale so I had to download and send them electronic screenshots of the PayPal transactions, both the payment and the refund. It was just part of the delay.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Guitsome
Posted 2017-05-16 2:01 PM (#535207 - in reply to #535191)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment


Joined:
April 2011
Posts: 106

Location: NH
That stinks, Professor! Sorry to hear the hassle you have to go through after having the guitar get damaged.

stephent28 - 2017-05-15 8:58 PM

And I have NEVER received a UPS package sooner than promised but I frequently get FedEx and USPS a day or two early.


I'm not sure that's a good barometer for a delivery company. Shouldn't they know when you're package is going to get delivered? Personally, I would rather the package show up on the date they tell you; not earlier, not later. If I'm expecting a guitar to arrive, I try to be around so I can accept the package, inspect the condition of the outside packaging, and if necessary, open it up in front of the person. Plus, if it shows up early, they may just leave it out on the steps in the rain or freezing temperatures.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
standing
Posted 2017-05-16 6:14 PM (#535208 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment



Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1356

Location: Texas
Sorry to hear that happened Prof.

Shipping a guitar always feels like a dice-roll to me, so I take step-by-step photos of the entire packing process before shipping out a guitar so I have evidence that any crushed areas, holes or damage, etc. weren't there when I shipped it. I do the reverse when receiving a guitar to document the arrival condition. I've even asked delivery drivers to pose for a photo with a crushed box, and occasionally make them wait while I open a distressed-looking box before I will sign for it.

Service seems to vary greatly from location to location too. For my location, I've actually had the best luck receiving guitars via UPS, but I've also never had to file a complaint with them, (possibly because the driver who is usually on our route is a great guy AND a guitar player.) ;-)

Top of the page Bottom of the page
stephent28
Posted 2017-05-17 10:39 AM (#535215 - in reply to #535207)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment



Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13265

Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066

Guitsome 

i think it is a great barometer.  When I check tracking and the delivery that was originally for a Friday is rescheduled for a Wed or Thurs that is great service.

UPS however will show the package arriving in the Denver site on Weds for a Friday delivery and sit on it until Friday rather that deliver before the promised date.  And I can't tell you how many times I have had two packages on the truck out for delivery only to have one delivered and the other one rerouted back to the depot only to get delivered a day late... and trust me, I could go on and on.

i got no problem with those that love the brown and get good service but for me personally my experience has been much more negative than the extremely rare positives.



Edited by stephent28 2017-05-17 10:45 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Love O Fair
Posted 2017-05-17 8:58 PM (#535217 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 410

Location: Spin axis of a California map
I remember when UPS service was terrific, but that was long ago. I have since watched the gradient of it slipping away a little at a time, then a lot at a time, and now it's crap. Probably because they don't have much money to spend on their actual routing and package accounting process anymore since pay for local drivers just starting the first day on their new job is $36 per hour with full benefits and goes up (way up) from there. At least that's how much entry level drivers get paid where I live. Probably more in places where cost of living is higher. That seems to be very high for a delivery driver job.

Edited by Love O Fair 2017-05-17 9:02 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
alpep
Posted 2017-05-18 5:56 AM (#535218 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 9924

Location: NJ
gggrrrrr

I've had my run arounds with the ups insurance. I do pack things like they need to go through a war but sometimes that does not even work.
the worst one was when I sent willa a case and it was crushed and it defies how it could have even happened.

wow what a mess....so sorry to hear about that
Top of the page Bottom of the page
FlySig
Posted 2017-05-18 9:41 AM (#535220 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 3725

Location: Utah
I suspect there is a lot of hidden damage to guitars from shipping. Having worked 20 yrs ago as a feeder freight pilot for both UPS and Fedex, I saw how both companies handled packages. UPS just tossed stuff as fast as possible into and out of the airplane. Fedex was a lot more careful, yet still not gentle like we would place our package into our own car.

All it takes is for a box to be dropped or something dropped onto it to flex the top or stress the neck. Voila, a hidden fracture in the wood, inside the fibronic Adamas top, or loosening a brace. I wouldn't be surprised if bridge failures or top failures in Adamas are caused by such impacts.

I've paid for overnight shipping to minimize en route handling, as well as taken road trips to pick up guitars. I really hate shipping guitars.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
BCam
Posted 2017-05-18 11:11 AM (#535221 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment


Joined:
October 2014
Posts: 105

Not a guitar, not UPS, but another shipping nightmare: I bought a professionally handmade, 15', wood and canvas canoe (worth $4,500) that had been severely damaged in shipping. The builder had built a custom, wooden shipping box for it and, when it arrived at it's destination, the box was gone and the canoe was wrapped in plastic sheeting. The recipient, who knew nothing about canoes, accepted it, not knowing of the missing shipping box or the damage (22 broken ribs), therefore the builder was unable to collect anything from the shipper or insurance even though he had photos of the box. The canoe cost me $300 at a garage sale and made for an interesting summer project, even though I had to invest about $1,000 in parts and materials.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
BCam
Posted 2017-05-18 11:11 AM (#535222 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment


Joined:
October 2014
Posts: 105

Would one be any better off having UPS pack the guitar, and how much would it cost?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Guitsome
Posted 2017-05-18 12:54 PM (#535223 - in reply to #535222)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment


Joined:
April 2011
Posts: 106

Location: NH
BCam - 2017-05-18 12:11 PM

Would one be any better off having UPS pack the guitar, and how much would it cost?


I've often wondered that too. Doesn't that put the responsibility of packaging on the shipper? I just received a guitar a few weeks ago, where the shipper did just that. He took it to the company shipping store and had them pack it. The headstock and neck were bubble wrapped and empty spaces inside the case were filled with bubble wrap and the the shipping carton spaces were filled, and ends cushioned. Then, all taped up nicely with tape printed with "Fragile" on it. It showed up without as much as a tear in the carton. Coincidence? I suspect the quality of the pack will also differ packer to packer. This was a good one.

I agree with Miles. You, unfortunately, hafta expect it to take a 6ft drop.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
alpep
Posted 2017-05-18 2:33 PM (#535225 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 9924

Location: NJ
no it does not matter if the ups store packs it.
I have seen some excellent packing from the stores and some that just throw the guitar in the box fill it with peanuts and let it fly
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Old Man Arthur
Posted 2017-05-18 2:52 PM (#535226 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 9861

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Our FedEx/Office will NOT pack a guitar.
They said so specifically.
But I have received professionally packed guitars.
So, the UPS Store or Postal Annex might do it for you.
I have have always packed my own.

Oh, and I HATE packing peanuts! (Ghost Turds)
They get everywhere and the static cling makes them stick to everything.
And packing peanuts will shift, so they really aren't the best protection.
Those Air Baggies seem cool.
And someone sent me a guitar with self-inflating form-fitting foam packets.
Now those are cool.


Edited by Old Man Arthur 2017-05-18 2:57 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Guitsome
Posted 2017-05-19 6:35 AM (#535228 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment


Joined:
April 2011
Posts: 106

Location: NH
But happens when the seller does have the company store pack it, and, it does get damaged? Who has the liability? Is the seller now removed from all of the hassle? Does the "hassle" get transferred to the company store? Does the matter get resolved more quickly? After all, the company store knows the guitar wasn't damaged when you gave it to them to be packed...
Top of the page Bottom of the page
BCam
Posted 2017-05-19 11:19 AM (#535233 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment


Joined:
October 2014
Posts: 105

I did some Google searches and was able to glean some interesting info about UPS Pack & Ship. Their website details the terms here:

https://www.theupsstore.com/about/pack-ship-guarantee

In reading some postings on various forums, the following issues seem to cause the most problems:

1. UPS stores are franchises, so any claim will involve both UPS and the franchise.

2. For UPS shipments, if you do not declare the value of the item at the time of the transaction and purchase Declared Value for that amount, your maximum reimbursement for the item’s value is $100. UPS makes a distinction between "Declared Value" coverage and "Insurance" but I didn't take the time to digest it all. More here:

https://consumerist.com/2013/06/12/ups-doesnt-offer-insurance-even-i...

3. The Pack & Ship Guarantee does not apply to items processed through UPS.com or through your UPS account, even if the store packs the item. This means you need to pay the store directly at the time of packing for packing and shipping. I read several postings where people had gone to the UPS Store, had them pack it but then chose to charge it through their UPS account -- then no coverage. Note: This seems to be the biggest issue for people.

It seems to me that we're faced with a dilemma, pack it to our own exacting standards to minimize the chance of damage or trust it to the UPS Store packing to preserve our ability to get reimbursed for damage even if we feel their packing to be substandard.

I suspect that other carriers have similar restrictions and issues.


Edited by BCam 2017-05-19 11:25 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
d'ovation
Posted 2017-05-19 1:55 PM (#535235 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment


Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 654

Location: Canada
Last year received an Adamas that was packed by an UPS store. There was no box at all instead the case of the guitar was wrapped in many, many layers of bubble wrap and secured with lots of clear wrap. It looked semi transparent, and seemed to be quite impact resistent and do it's job well. I just cut it open to extract the guitar. So while it is sad to hear about the Prof's and others frustrating experiences, I would hope that the vast majority of guitars get shipped in great condition.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Love O Fair
Posted 2017-05-19 9:50 PM (#535239 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 410

Location: Spin axis of a California map
@BCam- ".....does not apply to items processed through UPS.com or through your UPS account, even if the store packs the item."

So, first they urge us to establish a UPS account, then they encourage us to use their online services.. making it all appear to be so convenient and efficient, then they pull this crap, all the while knowing good and well that the customer will surely assume that since they are using the full-tilt version of the process that the whole event will transpire in the top notch level of what is available. I swear, the whole 28th floor at the UPS ivory tower must be dedicated to nothing but a bunch of people whose job is solely to make up convoluted gimmicks and hidden loopholes sure to trick the customer and, most importantly, profit the company. It seems to be getting more and more difficult to find companies in most any industry who do not resort to these backhanded tactics in one way or another. The days of Charlie Kaman, J.B. Hunt, Herb Kelleher and many other honest business inventors are clearly a thing of the past. To quote the Doobie Brothers-- what were once vices are now habits.

Edited by Love O Fair 2017-05-19 10:06 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Todd G.
Posted 2017-05-20 9:53 AM (#535243 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment


Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 798

Location: Colorado
Man, sorry to hear of your recent shipping woes Brad. It's a real bummer you went through the UPS process and still took it in the shorts.

I've only had two guitar shipping experiences, both with my old 1881. It was shipped to me via UPS from New Jersey and all was good, then I packed it and shipped it to North Carolina via UPS when I sold it and it arrived just fine. I've been fortunate in my limited experience, but I was really nervous both times.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
ProfessorBB
Posted 2017-05-22 8:46 AM (#535257 - in reply to #535174)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment



Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5727

Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains
According to the local UPS manager, with whom I've now become quite friendly, the problem lies totally with UPS's insurance carrier, whoever that is. The store has backed me up in my claim from the beginning. She did report early on that, according to the carrier, the claim would have been honored more quickly and more favorably if I had paid the store to pack it up. I am not convinced. Incidentally, although we've settled on the claim reimbursement amount, I am still awaiting receipt of the check. Going on five months now.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Nancy
Posted 2017-05-22 10:54 AM (#535259 - in reply to #535257)
Subject: Re: Another bad guitar shipping moment



Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1616

Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota
I am so sorry Professor...

It is a bad situation all the way around. Major disappointment for the person receiving their new Guitar, a boatload of headaches, paperwork, getting appraisals, and tons of phone calls, and fighting with non-caring management for you! Not to mention, a Gorgeous Piece now maimed.

I am so sorry, I hope that you get your reimbursement soon. I have had good luck with USPS (knock on wood!), but mine are usually coming IN, not going OUT

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1 2
Now viewing page 1 [25 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread

This message board and website is not sponsored or affiliated with Ovation in any way.
Registered to: The Ovation Fanclubâ„¢ Copyright (c) 2001
free counters
(Delete all cookies set by this site)