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1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...

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arumako
Posted 2017-05-19 12:07 PM (#535234 - in reply to #535231)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 652

Location: Yokohama, Japan
DanSavage - 2017-05-19 12:14 AM

I got the first couple of coats of clear on the top.

Here's a pic showing the coloration and grain of the top. Lots of silking and character.



Oh WOW! She is purdy! I'm in no hurry; but man, I can't wait to see her all done! Beautiful!
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Love O Fair
Posted 2017-05-19 10:43 PM (#535241 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 478

Location: Spin axis of a California map
@arumako - " I can't wait to see her all done! Beautiful!"

+1
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arumako
Posted 2017-05-20 8:20 PM (#535246 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 652

Location: Yokohama, Japan
DanSavage - 2016-12-29 12:58 AM

This will be getting a torrefied Sitka spruce top and braces. I played this guitar before taking the neck and top off and it sounded pretty good. So, I'll probably be duplicating the K-brace pattern. It's like a simplified A-brace pattern.


It's going to be interesting to see how the "K" brace pattern contrasts to the "A" brace (if any...). I wonder how long Ovation implemented the "K" brace in their production. Haven't heard much about it and the Internet doesn't seem to have much (even the Ovation Tribute site? maybe I missed something?) to say about it either. Very cool (and rare?) combination!
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-05-25 10:41 AM (#535280 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1611

Location: Lake Forest, CA

As near as I can tell from the sales brochures on OvationTribute.com, the K-5 brace pattern was mainly used in the 80s. It was used on the Custom Balladeers and Ultras for that time period.

Sometime in the early 90s, the Ultras were phased out and the Balladeers went back to a modified version of the original X-braces. Not the Ovation Modified-X, but a modified version of the original Ovation X-braces used in the 1960s.


If you look at the 1994 US Catalog, you can see photos of the modified X-braces. These are pretty similar to what I used on my 1111-4.



Edited by DanSavage 2017-05-25 10:45 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-05-25 10:43 AM (#535281 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1611

Location: Lake Forest, CA
I got the final coats on the top, and the neck/head stock. I'm going to let them cure for a couple of days, then final sand and polish everything.
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arumako
Posted 2017-05-26 10:17 AM (#535294 - in reply to #535280)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 652

Location: Yokohama, Japan
DanSavage - 2017-05-25 12:41 AM

As near as I can tell from the sales brochures on OvationTribute.com, the K-5 brace pattern was mainly used in the 80s. It was used on the Custom Balladeers and Ultras for that time period.

Sometime in the early 90s, the Ultras were phased out and the Balladeers went back to a modified version of the original X-braces. Not the Ovation Modified-X, but a modified version of the original Ovation X-braces used in the 1960s.


If you look at the 1994 US Catalog, you can see photos of the modified X-braces. These are pretty similar to what I used on my 1111-4.


Thanks for the info Dan. After some attempt at searching on the web, I ended up cycling right back to This thread. I think your 1612's top photo might be the only clear pic of a K-5 brace. I found a thread right here on the OFC from 2009 that discussed this very issue, and the K-5 brace ended as a mystery with no graphic representation of what it looked like. I wonder if the longer side braces of the K-5 will make the top a bit stiffer than the A brace. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on it when you string her up and take her for a spin!
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-05-26 11:46 AM (#535296 - in reply to #535294)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1611

Location: Lake Forest, CA

arumako - 2017-05-26 8:17 AM

Thanks for the info Dan. After some attempt at searching on the web, I ended up cycling right back to This thread. I think your 1612's top photo might be the only clear pic of a K-5 brace. I found a thread right here on the OFC from 2009 that discussed this very issue, and the K-5 brace ended as a mystery with no graphic representation of what it looked like. I wonder if the longer side braces of the K-5 will make the top a bit stiffer than the A brace. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on it when you string her up and take her for a spin!


The 1987 and 1988 Catalogs have photos of the K-5 braces. It's right near the front of the catalog. It also shows a cut-away A-brace behind it.

See: 1988/89 Ovation US Catalog

I recall reading somewhere that the guitar top actually twists as it vibrates, so Charlie designed the quintad braces with this in mind.

The A-brace is, essentially, a quintad brace pattern for a center-hole guitar. But, it requires the reinforcements at the joint between the upper and lower side braces to spread the load from the upper bout to the lower one.

The K-5 brace substitutes the two-piece side A-braces for a single piece of wood on each side. Its profile is taller than the A-brace equivilant, which helps counteract the pulling force of the strings. But, it's construction is simplified and cost is lowered because it doesn't need the extra reinforcments.

Since the top is twisting as it vibrates, the extra height doesn't really affect how it sounds compared to an A-brace. But, it's easier and cheaper to produce.

Obviously, there was some aspect that Ovation didn't like about this brace pattern as it was pretty much dropped by the mid-1990s with the Balladeers going back to their origins, the X-brace.

Now, almost all Ovations are X-braced, even the Elites. The only exceptions are the Adamas, which use the quintad, and the Glen Campbell CLs, which use a VT11 brace pattern. (?)

Yep, it shouldn't be too long, now. I'm going to start the wet sanding/polishing and it should be ready to play by the end of the weekend. (Yay!)



Edited by DanSavage 2017-05-26 11:48 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-01 12:47 AM (#535378 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1611

Location: Lake Forest, CA

It's been a while since my last post. I've taken a few pics along the way. The top and neck/head stock are done.

I've removed the bridge masking in preparation for gluing down the bridge.



Making sure the bridge fit is good.



Now, you may notice the dark section at the bottom of the saddle slot.

I can't remember where I got this bridge, but the floor of the saddle slot was routed unevenly. I made a simple jig to limit the router movement and proceeded to route the floor so it was more or less flat. The slot was also a little narrow, so I decided to widen it at the same time. In the process routed the floor down to about 1/32" and had a blow-out.

At this point, I decided to remove the floor altogether and replace it with a filler piece. I thought about using walnut, but decided to use a piece of rosewood, instead. I decided to use rosewood instead of the walnut so that the floor of the bridge would transmit the vibrations of the strings a little better.

Bridge footprint is masked.

Bridge is being glued into place.

Clamps removed. Neck aligned and bolted into place, fret board extension glued down.



Rosette glued into place.



Tomorrow, I'll make a new nut, install the hardware and string it up. I still need to touch up the bowl, but I can do that after I finish the rest of the guitar.

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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2017-06-01 6:12 PM (#535387 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 348

Location: moline,illinois
Another pretty Dan Savage guitar,the quality of the top wood and the way you finish them make me drool every time I see one.
Where's this beauty headed off to when she's done,I hope your keeping something for yourself.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-02 12:13 PM (#535395 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1611

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the kind words. Yes, the Stewmac torrefied spruce has been consistently high-quality. The silking in this one is particularly strong, almost to the point of obscuring the actual grain.

While this one has been spoken for, no money has changed hands yet. That won't happen until after it's finished and playable. I'll let the buyer speak up when they're ready.

Yes, I've still got the 1111-4 I did a few months ago. I was planning to sell it, but after playing it for a while I decided to keep it as a house guitar. Well, that is, unless someone offers me an exorbitant amount of money for it.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-03 10:43 AM (#535397 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1611

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Nut is made. Tuners are installed and strings are on.

First impression is that it sounds every bit as good as it looks.

Nice clear tone from every string with lots of sustain. I like the K-5 brace pattern. It sounds a lot like an A-brace. I also like the rosewood mod to the bridge. I'm not sure how much it's helping, but it's definitely not hurting anything, sound-wise. I'll probably try it again the next time I use a walnut bridge.



I still need to touch up the bowl, which I'll probably start that job this afternoon.

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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2017-06-03 11:03 AM (#535398 - in reply to #535395)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1219

Location: Gnashville
Nice Dan. Interesting you went with rosewood. One of mine had been routed thru to the top. I chose ebony for the new bridge floor... being the hardest wood in my stash. Like you, I believe it improved the sound, but that would be difficult to prove to a jury.
Keep up the beautiful work.
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2017-06-03 2:54 PM (#535399 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15096

Location: SoCal
Beautiful Dan. Had my 1117 out at the canyon last night. It sounds great and plays like buttah! Wish it had sounded that good when I first bought it in 78.....
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DarenSavage
Posted 2017-06-03 6:32 PM (#535400 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...


Joined:
December 2016
Posts: 71

Very pretty. Congrats on birthing another Savage Special.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-03 8:02 PM (#535401 - in reply to #535398)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1611

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Jonmark Stone - 2017-06-03 9:03 AM

Nice Dan. Interesting you went with rosewood. One of mine had been routed thru to the top. I chose ebony for the new bridge floor... being the hardest wood in my stash. Like you, I believe it improved the sound, but that would be difficult to prove to a jury.
Keep up the beautiful work.


Thanks, Jon.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-03 8:04 PM (#535402 - in reply to #535399)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1611

Location: Lake Forest, CA
moody, p.i. - 2017-06-03 12:54 PM

Beautiful Dan. Had my 1117 out at the canyon last night. It sounds great and plays like buttah! Wish it had sounded that good when I first bought it in 78.....


Thanks, Paul.

I'll upload the video snippet of your guitar I took the last time I was up at the canyon. It's not much to look at, but the guitar is clearly heard.

Ha! Is it your favorite guitar, yet? LOL!
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-03 8:36 PM (#535403 - in reply to #535400)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1611

Location: Lake Forest, CA
DarenSavage - 2017-06-03 4:32 PM

Very pretty. Congrats on birthing another Savage Special.


Thanks!
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arumako
Posted 2017-06-03 9:03 PM (#535404 - in reply to #535397)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 652

Location: Yokohama, Japan

DanSavage - 2017-06-03 12:43 AM

Nut is made. Tuners are installed and strings are on.

First impression is that it sounds every bit as good as it looks.

Nice clear tone from every string with lots of sustain. I like the K-5 brace pattern. It sounds a lot like an A-brace. I also like the rosewood mod to the bridge. I'm not sure how much it's helping, but it's definitely not hurting anything, sound-wise. I'll probably try it again the next time I use a walnut bridge.

I still need to touch up the bowl, which I'll probably start that job this afternoon.

"WOW"...as Arumako's jaw drops to the floor...awaiting full review and video with bated breath! Incredible work Dan!

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marenostrum
Posted 2017-06-04 11:19 AM (#535410 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
August 2007
Posts: 978

Location: Tuscany, Italy
Amazing.
Another work of love on a beautifully restored Ovation. I want one
Bravo Dan !
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-04 6:40 PM (#535411 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1611

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Thanks, Ken, & Riccardo.

Here's the video I promised. It's just a few snippets of different songs I know.

Dan Savage - 1982 Ovation 1612-4 Rebuild... 



Edited by DanSavage 2017-06-04 6:42 PM
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arumako
Posted 2017-06-04 8:28 PM (#535412 - in reply to #535399)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 652

Location: Yokohama, Japan
moody, p.i. - 2017-06-03 4:54 AM

Beautiful Dan. Had my 1117 out at the canyon last night. It sounds great and plays like buttah! Wish it had sounded that good when I first bought it in 78.....

Okay...now isn't that just going a bit too far? Ah, but one listen to the video says it all...

DanSavage - 2017-06-04 8:40 AM

Thanks, Ken, & Riccardo.

Here's the video I promised. It's just a few snippets of different songs I know.


I used some nice ear-buds to listen to this 1612 - what an amazing voice she has! I suspect the torrefied top is the central reason; with these kinds of results, the Mother Ship is bound to release a torrefied model, or a line...

DanSavage - 2017-06-02 2:13 AM

While this one has been spoken for, no money has changed hands yet. That won't happen until after it's finished and playable. I'll let the buyer speak up when they're ready.

I keep saying, I'm not in a hurry, and I'm not..., but I don't think I've ever been more ready to own a specific guitar (perhaps excluding the 1678av50-5) in my life! I'll take delivery whenever, but I'm ready when you are Dan! Thanks for giving me the opportunity to own a Savage Rebuilt O!

Edited by arumako 2017-06-04 8:29 PM
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2017-06-04 8:35 PM (#535413 - in reply to #535411)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1219

Location: Gnashville
Impressed. MS should be experimenting with torrefied tops IMHO.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2017-06-04 8:42 PM (#535414 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 478

Location: Spin axis of a California map
@Dan - "It's just a few snippets of different songs I know."

And the crowd goes wild! Not only do you produce spectacular guitars, you play them well too. As always, looking forward to the next chapters in the book of Dan.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-09 12:53 AM (#535458 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1611

Location: Lake Forest, CA

All done. I'll let the pics speak for themselves.

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arumako
Posted 2017-06-09 5:51 AM (#535460 - in reply to #535458)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 652

Location: Yokohama, Japan
DanSavage - 2017-06-08 2:53 PM

All done. I'll let the pics speak for themselves.


Oh WOW! Oh WOW! Oh WOW! Oh WOW! Oh WOW! Oh WOW! Oh WOW! Oh WOW! Oh WOW! Oh WOW!
Look at the silking on that sound bo..., look at the beautiful fini..., look at that headsto..., look at that fret-job, wait-a-minute, it just dawned on me that the finger board is not rosewood (duh!)...but ebony? Oh man, she is gorgeous!

Just amazing work Dan!

Edited by arumako 2017-06-09 5:59 AM
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