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1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...

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DanSavage
Posted 2016-10-20 8:38 PM (#529435 - in reply to #529433)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Hi Jay!

You're not making it easy for me here. LOL!

I think you are correct. The addition of the tone bars on the 1111-4 will limit the response to a certain respect. There's no doubt in my mind that the original simple x-brace top, along with the hand-laid, vacuum-bagged, male-mold bowls, such as #485, are the best that Ovation produced.

But, based upon my playing of the guitar, the response of the 1111-4 is still pretty darned respectable, even though it is a 2nd gen hand-laid bowl.

WRT to bowl technologies, IMO, the thinner the fiberglass, the better. But, in all fairness, a good lay-up man can produce a hand-lay-up that is as good (minimal resin) as a vacuum-bagged setup. So, in terms of the amount of resin used, I'm seeing that the 1111-4 I'm rebuilding has as good of a lay-up as #485.

Now, the A-brace is a different animal entirely from the X-brace guitars and should not be compared with the original X-brace guitars. As I understand it, the 1960s X-brace guitars were pitted head-to-head against the Martin HD-28 Brazilian rosewood guitars and they succeeded, as you know from playing #485.

The A-brace was an attempt to mellow the strong bass response of the X-brace to produce a more balanced response from bass to treble.

In the end, it'll be interesting to compare this guitar to 1111-4.

jay - 2016-10-20 5:25 PM

Dan, I dont think it will exceed 485 in acoustic response...I just cannot see how that is possible. I am not sure if you remember, but we talked briefly about going the A route, but you convinced me otherwise....and I am glad you did. How much difference will the bowls play, do you think?  

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moody, p.i.
Posted 2016-10-20 9:40 PM (#529436 - in reply to #529432)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15651

Location: SoCal
Jonmark Stone - 2016-10-20 4:28 PM

As you probably know, Paul and I are huge fans of A-braced O's. Bet he's salivating. I would be.
Again, beautiful work Dan.


Uh, that would be big yup I'm....
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-10-20 10:00 PM (#529437 - in reply to #529436)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA
moody, p.i. - 2016-10-20 7:40 PM

Uh, that would be big yup I'm....


Wel,, Paul, when I'm ready, you'll have to make sure to make enough time to try out, not only the 1717-4. the 1111-4, but also the 2077-AV50. :D
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-10-21 2:36 PM (#529447 - in reply to #528984)
Subject: RE: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA

New frets are done. I'm going to set this neck aside for the time being while I concentrate on fixing the 1111-4 headstock.

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moody, p.i.
Posted 2016-10-21 4:41 PM (#529451 - in reply to #529437)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15651

Location: SoCal
Cool!
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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2016-10-21 5:15 PM (#529452 - in reply to #529437)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 699

Location: moline,illinois
DanSavage - 2016-10-20 10:00 PM

moody, p.i. - 2016-10-20 7:40 PM

Uh, that would be big yup I'm....


Wel,, Paul, when I'm ready, you'll have to make sure to make enough time to try out, not only the 1717-4. the 1111-4, but also the 2077-AV50. :D



You'll have to post some audio samples for all of us to drool over,I'm a big A-brace fan and would love to hear how it compares to the newest 20077-AV50 as well as to the traditional balladeer tone,Please and ThankYou!!!


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arumako
Posted 2016-10-21 9:04 PM (#529454 - in reply to #529447)
Subject: RE: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 1018

Location: Yokohama, Japan

DanSavage - 2016-10-21 4:36 AM

New frets are done. I'm going to set this neck aside for the time being while I concentrate on fixing the 1111-4 headstock.

Incredible! So, a question from "Ignorant Arumako" over here...you pulled the frets withOUT removing the binding first? How did you ever do that without breaking the binding? Some kind of heat to soften things up or do you have some kind of mystical feather touch when pulling frets? Or is this standard procedure?



Edited by arumako 2016-10-21 9:10 PM
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-10-22 11:09 AM (#529459 - in reply to #529452)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA
2wheeldrummer - 2016-10-21 3:15 PM

You'll have to post some audio samples for all of us to drool over,I'm a big A-brace fan and would love to hear how it compares to the newest 20077-AV50 as well as to the traditional balladeer tone,Please and ThankYou!!!



I'm sure I can post something.
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-10-22 11:26 AM (#529460 - in reply to #529454)
Subject: RE: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA

arumako - 2016-10-21 7:04 PM

Incredible! So, a question from "Ignorant Arumako" over here...you pulled the frets withOUT removing the binding first? How did you ever do that without breaking the binding? Some kind of heat to soften things up or do you have some kind of mystical feather touch when pulling frets? Or is this standard procedure?



Hi Ken!

Yes. Re-fretting doesn't require pulling the binding. During the manufacturing process, the slots are cut into the fingerboard first, and run all the way through. Then, the fingerboard binding is added. (SOP)

FlySig posted a BFLG thread that details the basic steps I went through. (See: EVO Gold frets on a Deacon) He also posted a step-by-step tutorial. (See: A beginners guide to re-fretting your guitar)

But, to answer your question, I heated up the fret using a soldering iron to soften the glue, then carefully pulled the frets up a little bit at a time. (See: Removing the frets on the Mike Bloomfield Tele)

Basically, yes, you have to be patient and let the heat of the soldering iron do the work. Once the glue softens, the frets come out pretty easy with the fret puller.

Dan



Edited by DanSavage 2016-10-22 11:28 AM
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Love O Fair
Posted 2016-10-22 2:33 PM (#529462 - in reply to #528984)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1768

Location: When??
Dan.. thanks for posting those links. I checked them out (great tutorial, FlySig!) and it fully re-affirms to me that I may as well have hooves instead of fingers since at the current point on my BFLG learning ladder I would SO mess this stuff up; hence, I am thankful for cheap yard sale guitars because I will have to go through a stack of them before I would dare try re-fretting anything I love and cherish. So in the meantime I am also very thankful that you guys exist and there are roads and streets leading to your shops!
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-10-27 6:23 PM (#529537 - in reply to #528984)
Subject: RE: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA

I decided to start finishing the top on this guitar while I'm finishing the neck of the 1111-4.

Here's the first sealer coats of clear. It's a nice looking piece of spruce that has lots of silking and character.

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DanSavage
Posted 2016-11-21 8:47 AM (#530826 - in reply to #528984)
Subject: RE: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Top finishing is all done and polished.



Bridge masking removed.



Bridge being glued down.



Bridge masking removed while glue continues to cure.

Neck aligned and mounted. Waiting for fret board extension glue to cure. Then, it's time to glue rosette.



Edited by DanSavage 2016-11-21 8:53 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-11-21 4:23 PM (#530835 - in reply to #528984)
Subject: RE: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Rosette is mounted.

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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2016-11-21 7:05 PM (#530836 - in reply to #528984)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 699

Location: moline,illinois
She's becoming a real beauty,love that carved bridge.
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BanjoJ
Posted 2016-11-21 8:09 PM (#530838 - in reply to #530836)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
September 2012
Posts: 809

Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia
Looking good Dan! When do the strings go on?
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DetlefMichel
Posted 2016-11-22 4:47 AM (#530843 - in reply to #530838)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 751

Location: Muenster/Germany
Wonderful. A dream guitar. Too bad it has the * ugly * blue Ovation sticker inside (sorry, boys, but I never could understand that they replaced the metal labels. Ovation guitars were horribly expensive at that time and how much can a label cost? Makes the guitar look cheap).
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-11-22 8:59 AM (#530844 - in reply to #530838)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Thanks, guys. It's actually even better looking in person.

BanjoJ - 2016-11-21 6:09 PM

Looking good Dan! When do the strings go on?


Probably sometime today, actually. I need to mount the hardware, then make a nut, string it up and set the action.
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-11-23 12:26 PM (#530858 - in reply to #528984)
Subject: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild... - All Done!



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA

All done. I will say that it sounds every bit as good as it looks.

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d'ovation
Posted 2016-11-23 12:49 PM (#530860 - in reply to #528984)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...


Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 846

Location: Canada
Wow she's gorgeous! Congrats on another great project completion. I hope we will get some sound samples as well.
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2016-11-23 1:14 PM (#530861 - in reply to #528984)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15651

Location: SoCal
Beautiful. I need to come over this weekend, return your movie, and give this Legend a spin....
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-11-23 2:42 PM (#530863 - in reply to #530860)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA
d'ovation - 2016-11-23 10:49 AM

Wow she's gorgeous! Congrats on another great project completion. I hope we will get some sound samples as well.


Thanks.

Yes, once I get the 1111-4 done, I'll record it and this one and maybe the 50th CL, too. Nothing fancy. Just my video camera.
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-11-23 2:55 PM (#530864 - in reply to #530861)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA
moody, p.i. - 2016-11-23 11:14 AM

Beautiful. I need to come over this weekend, return your movie, and give this Legend a spin....


The bambina, she's ah-all tuned up and ah-waiting for you.
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2016-11-23 8:02 PM (#530865 - in reply to #528984)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15651

Location: SoCal
It ought to sound as good if not better than any 1970's-80's A braced Legend.
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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2016-11-23 8:26 PM (#530866 - in reply to #528984)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 699

Location: moline,illinois
Absolutely gorgeous,I love the way the black saddle goes with the bridge.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2016-11-23 8:53 PM (#530868 - in reply to #528984)
Subject: Re: 1985 1717 Legend Rebuild...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1768

Location: When??
In awe. Absolute awe. Dan, you are a wizard! (and then some)
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