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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Education Please--
"Sustain" is often referred to, but I have no idea what is "Good Sustain"...
I know that when I twang my guitar, I can easily hear it for about 7 seconds* (acoustic)
and much longer Plugged In. (even longer with gain/OD)
*[the high E will echo around in the bowl forever]
I thought of this cuz my Oscar Delta King has a bolt-on neck (as do all my electrics),
and the reviewers say that the "Thru Neck" of an ES335 has longer sustain.
Any of my Electric or Acoustic/Electric guitars will twang for a long time...
So how long is considered good?
:rolleyes: We really need an On-Going Thread for Stupid Questions...
Then it could be consolidated into an FAQ section. |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Its personal preference |
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| There is no answer. Flamenco guitars are designed to have almost no sustain. Archtop jazz guitars have very little natural sustain compared to a full acoustic and with flatwound strings have almost no sustain, acoustic or electric.
Macafferi gypsy guitars are not designed for sustain either.
It really does depend what you want.
JeffW has a Lowden that sustains a note or a chord long enough for you wander off and make a pot of coffee and then come back and finish the song. |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | i wanted to make similar topic in nearest future - i think i have problem with sustain of bass E string in my Legend. There is almost no sustain when string is pressed to the fretboard, if it's "open" string, sound is good, but when it's pressed (especially on third position) there is only short "explosion" of sound (2 seconds maybe) and then significant loss of volume. On A string strong sound lasts for at least 10-15 seconds |
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Location: CT | Sounds like that low E is bottoming out on a higher fret. Maybe the action needs an adjustment or the neck needs a tweek. If not, maybe theres a good sized dent in the first few frets. |
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Location: NJ | about THIS long . . . |
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Location: CT | Pi to only 21 digits? How can you get an accurate math solution that way? :D |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | This is really odd, but a few years ago I was in Lausanne Switzerland and went for an early morning walk in the outskirts of town. At a bus stop I come across this big monument, maybe 5 feet tall by 3 feet wide. Like a big marble gravestone. But it's right on the roadway. I notice that ingraved into it are numbers. About 150 or so on each side. Very odd. Looking closer I notice that the sequence of numbers is 3.14159265... and on and on. It's freaking Pi to about 300 decimal places. I did a little research on it and found that it's somewhat famous because it's actually missing one number someplace in the sequence. I've got some photos of it at home that I can post. Very odd. Anyone ever heard of or seen this ???
Dave |
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Location: CT | Did you figure out which number was missing? |
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Location: NJ | I have NO idea what the hell you're talking about . . . |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | Originally posted by brainslag:
Sounds like that low E is bottoming out on a higher fret. Maybe the action needs an adjustment or the neck needs a tweek. If not, maybe theres a good sized dent in the first few frets. guitar has new frets and while neck has bump on 16th fret (about 1mm) on the bass side, i don't see it as a reason of this because there is no sting buzz or so, and string is significantly higher than the frets.
i'm quite convinced that it might be something with the top. top on my legend was broken in few places and there was some additional bracing to give this top "new strength". But other than bass E, sound of this guitar is very good and sustain is ok. |
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Location: CT | "I have NO idea what the hell you're talking about . . ."
:D :p |
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Location: UK | Cliff , im surprised at you , Brainslag , im not surprised at you |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Originally posted by Tupperware:
This is really odd, but a few years ago I was in Lausanne Switzerland and went for an early morning walk in the outskirts of town. At a bus stop I come across this big monument, maybe 5 feet tall by 3 feet wide. Like a big marble gravestone. But it's right on the roadway. I notice that ingraved into it are numbers. About 150 or so on each side. Very odd. Looking closer I notice that the sequence of numbers is 3.14159265... and on and on. It's freaking Pi to about 300 decimal places. I did a little research on it and found that it's somewhat famous because it's actually missing one number someplace in the sequence. I've got some photos of it at home that I can post. Very odd. Anyone ever heard of or seen this ???
Dave When I was in Switzerland, it was very warm and the universities were on holiday, so you can you bet the house that my attention was singularly focused on Switzerland's other attributes, not its statues nor a string of numbers appearing on the base of one at a bus stop. |
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Location: UK |  |
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Location: Omaha, NE | Well my wife says...
Oh, nevermind. I forgot we were talking guitars.
Carry on. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Been to Lausanne too. For a skating convention. Really liked, but did not see a monument to PI.
I don't know why, but my wife looks at Fibanocci numbers, for stock trading. It's a weird number, that appears everywhere. |
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Location: Utah | LBJ, this is just a SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess), but maybe it is a saddle problem? When the string angle changes over the saddle, maybe it is pulled into a little depression or worn spot?
You could try stringing it with a thick 6th string but put it where the 5th string goes. Tune it to a low E and see what happens. If it is something related to a defect in the nut, bridge, or frets, the problem should probably go away. For example, a worn spot on the bridge saddle for just the 6th string. But if the problem persists it is a more universal issue with the guitar. Maybe the whole saddle is bad, maybe it is related to the repair to the top. |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | tommorow i will adjust the neck and add one shim. my saddle doesn't actually look bad...
i hope he'll survive at least this winter. i think i'll start lurking for a 1614 in good condition.
btw. was there a slothead wood-top, center soundhole ovation made with 1 11/16" neck? |
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Location: Delaware | LBJ - I'm thinking in addition to saddle/nut possibilities that you might improve sustain but going to smaller gauge strings - I'm guessing you have medium or heavy gauges on the guitar? If that is wrong and you have light gauge, forget my idea. It is interesting that you note the breaks on top of guitar that were repaired.
Since the saddle is there to transfer energy to the top and produce volume and I guess sustain, it is possible that the breaks and repairs mentioned are in the area of the 6th string or under saddle of 6th string? If so, you may be right that the damage or repairs might be effecting tone/sustain.
If you are willing to loosen all 6 strings enough to remove the saddle, make sure there is no dust or wood splinter under the saddle and that it is seating perfectly flat against bottom slot in bridge? Make sure the saddle fits the slot properly... and is not catching on end edges, which would prevent it from seating properly.
One other thing involving saddle is the break angle from bridge pin to saddle. Is it the same as the other strings? Do all strings have a good angle? Without that angle, less energy is transferred and therefore less tone, volume and sustain. You ruled out a notch in the saddle under 6th string, right? I ask because a notch would effectively reduce the break angle too. |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | i use 10-50 special light strings.
i think break angle is ok, and top of this guitar was broken on the treble side, so it shouldn't affect the tone on the bass side so strong.
there is also aditional bracing, but considering how other strings sustain and sound, it only improved the sound of this legend adding more mid and high end to it, and making this guitar more balanced.
currently action on this legend is really low, i don't have any shims under the saddle. |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | ok. i've added one shim, and bass E sustain improved and i think it's now ok. It's not so easy to play now, but i think i'll get used to. |
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Location: Utah | OK, maybe you need a slight truss rod adjustment. For a beginner guitar adjuster like me, it isn't always obvious if high action is due to the bridge or the truss rod. It seems unusual that you would have zero shims, when two or three is fairly common. Maybe a slight tweak on the truss rod will bring it back to low action. |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | With one shim action is quite high for my standards.
It's now 2 mm above 12th fret on the bass E string, and i think it's the highest i can tolerate on guitar on which i don't play on alternative tunings. If i drop to D i set guitar for 3mm above 12th fret. |
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Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by schroeder:
...with flatwound strings have almost no sustain... Hey, schroeder (or anyone else that knows), sorry to jump in late here, but is that typical of flatwounds? Do they really sustain less than roundwounds? The reason I ask is because I put flatwounds on all of my non-Ovation/Adamas guitars because I like the tone I get with them and they seem to last almost twice as long as round wounds (even from the same manufacturer).
I have noticed that on a couple of guitars (Hamer P90 Special and Heritage H137D specifically) that as I go up the neck the sustain gets shorter (relative to notes closer to the nut). It hadn't occurred to me that the strings themselves would affect sustain...talk about a "d'oh!" moment. |
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Dumb Question - Sustain? How Long is Long Enough
