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Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?

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Nancy
Posted 2015-04-06 10:05 AM (#508451)
Subject: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713

Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota		I bought a really stunning 1619 CL, that looks like it has been stored since creation. The only thing wrong with it, is that the tuner knobs (pearloid) are yellowed and have marks on them.

1) I found replacement knobs at StewMac, and ordered a set of 6, but have never replaced these before... do you just unscrew the existing screw, slide off the knob, and replace with the new one (seems too simple).

2) The ones from StewMac only came with silver screws, and mine have gold, so can I use my existing screws?

3) Do I need to loosen the tension on the strings before doing this, and should I do them one at a time, or loosen all the strings at once, and do the whole set at once?

Thank You so much for your help and advice! I know it is a very small step, but at least it is one that is going forward to learn new things!

Many Thanks!
Nancy



(Schaller_Replacement_Knobs.jpg)



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Attachments Schaller_Replacement_Knobs.jpg (37KB - 0 downloads)
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DanSavage
Posted 2015-04-06 12:22 PM (#508453 - in reply to #508451)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA		Howdy!

1) Yep. They should just unscrew and slide off.

2) Yep. You should be able to use the gold screws as long as the screw heads will fit inside the recess in the knob. If the recess is too small, you can always use (gently, please) a reamer to enlarge the recess to fit the existing screw heads.

3) Nope. No need to slacken the strings. You can replace the knobs one-at-a-time or all at once.

As they say, the journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

Good luck! When you get done, post pics of your 1619 so we can all admire it. :D

Dan

Edited by DanSavage 2015-04-06 12:24 PM
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Nancy
Posted 2015-04-06 12:31 PM (#508455 - in reply to #508453)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713

Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota		THANK YOU DAN!!!!!!!!

It just seemed too easy, but it sounds like it really just is!!! Thank You for your help!!!
As soon as they get here, and I get them on, I will definitely post pictures!!!
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!
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TAFKAR
Posted 2015-04-06 6:45 PM (#508471 - in reply to #508451)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 2985

Location: Sydney, Australia		My understanding is that you need to slacken the string before unscrewing the button - you can do this one at a time.
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DanSavage
Posted 2015-04-06 9:06 PM (#508474 - in reply to #508471)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA
richard.parker - 2015-04-06 4:45 PM

My understanding is that you need to slacken the string before unscrewing the button - you can do this one at a time.


Yep, you're right.

I just tried it on my 1619 with the low E string at concert pitch and it ended up popping the worm gear out of the side of the tuner. (Doh!)

Of course, it was easy enough to push it back into place by twisting the string post to re-engage the gears, but I'll make sure to slacken the strings in the future.



Edited by DanSavage 2015-04-06 9:07 PM
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Nancy
Posted 2015-04-07 4:47 PM (#508514 - in reply to #508474)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713

Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota		Thank You Both SO MUCH!!!!!!!!
I can't wait for them to come now!

I would Love to see pictures of your 1619 too Dan!
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Nancy
Posted 2015-04-08 8:37 PM (#508605 - in reply to #508514)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713

Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota		THANK YOU DAN & TAFKAR!!!!!!

I did what you both suggested, and after figuring out which way is Left and Right, I got the new knobs on, and they look FABULOUS!!! After that, I felt gutsy enough to try to remove some shims (the strings were already loosened), and I took 2 out without breaking it!!!! Now it PLAYS as good as it looks!!! The action was so high, it hurt my fingers to play it! Now it is just right!!!

And Thank you for mentioning that the screws pushed in, I had a heck of a time getting the screw through the knob to catch, and when I felt underneath on the machine, I could feel where the screw thingy had pushed through, so I held it against the machine, and the screw could catch and tighten! Because you mentioned that, I didn't panic, I knew kind of what to look for!!

Thank you SO much for your help and encouragement!!! Next... Trying to fix cracks!!!!!



Edited by naellis58 2015-04-08 8:53 PM




(1619 Old.jpg)



(1619 New.jpg)



(New vs Old Knobs.jpg)



(1619 New Knobs sm.jpg)



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Attachments 1619 Old.jpg (28KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments 1619 New.jpg (24KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments New vs Old Knobs.jpg (38KB - 1 downloads)
Attachments 1619 New Knobs sm.jpg (62KB - 0 downloads)
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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2015-04-08 9:14 PM (#508606 - in reply to #508451)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 699

Location: moline,illinois		thats a beautiful guitar,nice job with the tuning knobs!!!
so how many ovations do you own now,every week your talking about a different one?
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Nancy
Posted 2015-04-08 9:56 PM (#508607 - in reply to #508606)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713

Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota		I'm sorry, I guess it does sound like I am a spoiled brat...

For over 45 years I have collected model horses, sounds dumb, but it is a very large hobby, with International Shows, both live and Internet.

Over the years like with anything you are passionate about, you hone your Collection, and I had one hellacious Collection by some of the Hobbies Best Artists. These horses sell for thousands of dollars, not that I paid that much for them, I was really good at hunting and pouncing. Buy 2, sell one when the LE sold out, pay for both!

I lost my job 2 years ago after 27 years working for a Huge Insurance Home Office due to my health (I am NOT happy about it). But I can't control what Corporations do, everyone on this forum knows who makes the decisions in business, and that that those decisions do not usually benefit the Employee.

Anyway, once I found you guys, and re-newed my Love of Ovations, I started selling off my Model Collection (which I swore I would never do, because I really loved each piece I have), and hunting Ovations. I have pretty much run out of the horses that bring in the big money, so my buying days are done already, some of the ones I bought are still on their way here because of the winter. And I am hoping to get one or two more as time goes by, and I am able to sell more of my Collection.

I never thought about how bad it sounded that I was getting all these guitars in, in a short time period, I was just so excited to share with you all. I apologize, sincerely, if I came off as sounding like I was boasting, that is truly not my nature, I just get a bit too excited, and share too much.
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BanjoJ
Posted 2015-04-08 10:09 PM (#508608 - in reply to #508451)
Subject: RE: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
September 2012
Posts: 809

Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia		Nancy, there's no problem with boasting here on the OFC.

In fact its encouraged.

As you will have noticed, some of the members list their Os and As as their signature. No problem with that.

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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2015-04-08 11:54 PM (#508609 - in reply to #508451)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR		Speaking of knobs... I need to get some for my 97C.
My 97 Collectors now has all brass/gold knobs.
When I got it, it had an assortment of brass, pearl and ebony buttons.
I was just looking at a 97C on eBay that has ebony buttons...
And I think that the originals have Pearl buttons.
I have a complete set of Schaller tuners to replace the current set, but they are all gold.
So I think that I should get either Pearl or Ebony.

And Yes. Boasting is encouraged. Without boasting we would have nothing to talk about.
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Tony Calman
Posted 2015-04-09 12:45 AM (#508611 - in reply to #508451)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 4619

Location: SoCal		Boasting? We call it sharing.

For a period of time, seemed like I was visited at least once a week by the UPS driver delivering a guitar box. In fact, when I was awaiting a new Collectors, UPS had the shipping status as a problem without explanation. I imagined that it was in a truck that was in an accident.
Called the 800 number for UPS and before I got an answer to my question, the gal in customer service said "I know you, I was your driver."
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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2015-04-09 12:48 AM (#508612 - in reply to #508451)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 699

Location: moline,illinois		Hey don't apologize for your love of ovations and building an awesome collection,thats what we're all here for.
I didn't take it as being spoiled but as being passionate something we all share concerning ovations.
So just keep sharing pics as you get them so we can all vicariously enjoy your collection.
BTW it sounds like you've got a thing for Legends and Custom Legends which are my favs so we're kindred spirits in that.
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DetlefMichel
Posted 2015-04-09 3:21 AM (#508615 - in reply to #508609)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 751

Location: Muenster/Germany
arthurseery - 2015-04-09 6:54 AM

Speaking of knobs... I need to get some for my 97C.
And I think that the originals have Pearl buttons.

So I think that I should get either Pearl or Ebony.

And Yes. Boasting is encouraged. Without boasting we would have nothing to talk about.
[/QUOTE

The 97 collectors has a such nice wood colour on the headstock.I would choose (Schaller) knobs made of rosewood for this guitar.
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DetlefMichel
Posted 2015-04-09 3:32 AM (#508616 - in reply to #508451)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 751

Location: Muenster/Germany		You lucky people in Ovationland! What a guitar! Here in Europe it is very hard to find a gem like this.
By the way... the old A-braced Ovations act very sensitive. I would advice you to try the Thomastik plectrum .11-50 strings ( like the ones you have on the ssb cl!) on this guitar, especially if you use not to play hard. They will give the top more room to move.
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Nancy
Posted 2015-04-09 9:09 AM (#508624 - in reply to #508616)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713

Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota		You Guys are all SO Wonderful! (I wish I could do one of those Heart Icons)

Thank You!!!!

And Yes, 2WheelDrummer, I am a sucker for those Custom Legends, would LOVE to see pictures of all of yours too!! I am getting a 1719 CL-30 and Adamas 1587-2 from Tony as soon as the weather warms up, so we have very similar tastes!

Thank You all, I just love coming here every day and being with you all!!!
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DanSavage
Posted 2015-04-09 9:38 AM (#508628 - in reply to #508514)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA

naellis58 - 2015-04-07 2:47 PM

I would Love to see pictures of your 1619 too Dan!


My 1619 was the subject of a rebuild thread here on the BFLG.

It went from being a 1619 Custom Legend to a 1619 Savage-Customized Legend. Basically, when I built the new top I changed the A-brace pattern to a forward X-brace pattern. I also used bearclaw Sitka spruce. It doesn't sound like a CL any more. If anything it sounds like an original X-brace Balladeer.

Here's the thread: 1619-4 Rebuild...

If you go to the thread you can see what it looked like before:

Here's what it looks like now:

Here's YouTube link of our very own Paul Moody playing it when we got together last summer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTlSo8PLhao

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FlySig
Posted 2015-04-09 9:51 AM (#508632 - in reply to #508616)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4025

Location: Utah
DetlefMichel - 2015-04-09 2:32 AM

You lucky people in Ovationland! What a guitar! Here in Europe it is very hard to find a gem like this.
By the way... the old A-braced Ovations act very sensitive. I would advice you to try the Thomastik plectrum .11-50 strings ( like the ones you have on the ssb cl!) on this guitar, especially if you use not to play hard. They will give the top more room to move.


Yes, those strings are really great on my Patriot (and Adamas 2080). Not cheap, but worth it.
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Mark in Boise
Posted 2015-04-09 10:07 AM (#508638 - in reply to #508451)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?


Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12750

Location: Boise, Idaho		OMA, the 97 Collectors came with small ebony buttons and they had a lot of problems. There was a thread on this site that I found when I got my 97. It had one nickel button and one of the ebony ones was stripped. I got the full size ebony buttons from Al to replace them, but noticed that the Ute appears to have the same small ebony buttons and they have never caused me any problems. The 97s must have had a bad batch.

Edited by Mark in Boise 2015-04-09 10:09 AM
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Nancy
Posted 2015-04-09 10:43 AM (#508642 - in reply to #508628)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713

Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota		Dan, that is MAGICAL!!!

I have watched the Ovation Tour Video, but getting to see step-by-step in photographs that you could study, and understand was AMAZING!!! And all of the tools and contraptions that you created to get the job done are Brilliant! It was Amazing!!! And your 1619 CL turned out SO Beautifully, and when Paul played it, you could hear that tone, that is All Ovation! The one you could pick out on the radio when songs came on, and you KNEW without seeing, that they were playing Ovations! A unique sound all their own!

I bow before the Master - that is Incredible Dan, and I am SO glad that you shared that journey with us! I will never get to that point in repair and remaking, but seeing it done is very inspiring, and educational! I am just thrilled with changing knobs right now, and lifting shims, but knowing that there are people here with the Knowledge, Ingenuity, and Willingness to share and teach is really a Blessing!!!

Thank you SO much!!! I am still wondering how the dickens you came up with those pressure point holders for gluing on the braces - Incredible!!!
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DanSavage
Posted 2015-04-09 7:44 PM (#508664 - in reply to #508451)
Subject: RE: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Thanks for the kind words, Nancy.

I'm not sure I would call myself a 'master', but your praise is sincerely appreciated. :D

Right now I've got two more Ovation projects ahead of me. First up, as soon as I get a little more settled in my new house, is to finish Jay's 1967 Balladeer. (1967 Balladeer Rebuild...)

After that, I'm going to rebuild a 1978 1617 Legend I bought off eBay. I'm going to use the same brace pattern on that guitar that I used on my 1619, but instead of normal spruce I'm going to use some torrefied adirondak spruce I bought from Blues Creek Guitars. The torrefaction process pre-ages the wood so that when it's used on a guitar, it sounds like it's 100-years old. I haven't started a thread on the BFLG yet, but once I have the project in front of me, I will.

WRT the brace clamps, I would love to take credit for coming up with them, but it's an old luthier tool called a gobar deck I bought from Blues Creek Guitars for $95. (Gobar Deck)

Dan



Edited by DanSavage 2015-04-09 7:47 PM
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Nancy
Posted 2015-04-09 9:53 PM (#508666 - in reply to #508664)
Subject: RE: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713

Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota		Amazing!!!

I am absolutely loving reading and seeing your documentation of re-doing these Guitars! It is Fascinating!, and although I would never have the nerve to attempt it, it is incredible how seeing them torn down, and remade, gives you such a great perspective on how they were designed and made!

My mouth dropped to my chest when I read, and saw the old vs new Rosette!!! WOW!

Thank you for taking the time to document these!

I also had fun going through Blue Creek, and maybe someday, someday, I might try one of those kits! I have allot to learn first, but it looks like fun!!

Thank You Dan!
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Nancy
Posted 2015-08-03 7:57 PM (#514095 - in reply to #508666)
Subject: RE: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713

Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota		Dan, you have created a MONSTER!

I found these tuners for my American Flag, and had to put them on!! I am changing strings too, so I cleaned and oiled the fretboard and bridge, then glued a piece of the binding that had come loose on the neck.

They are not for everyone, but I like them, and it was very easy to re-read your previous instructions, and go to it!!! Thanks Again!!!

Edited by Nancy 2015-08-03 8:14 PM




(Silver Eagles Old.jpg)



(Silver Eagles Half.jpg)



(Silver Eagles Done.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Silver Eagles Old.jpg (26KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments Silver Eagles Half.jpg (23KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments Silver Eagles Done.jpg (43KB - 0 downloads)
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DanSavage
Posted 2015-08-03 9:38 PM (#514103 - in reply to #514095)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA		Now, those are cool! They add so much character to the guitar.

Nice job, Nancy. I like!!
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Nancy
Posted 2015-08-04 8:13 AM (#514113 - in reply to #514103)
Subject: Re: Machine Tuner Knob Replacement?



Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713

Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota		Thanks Dan!!!

With the American Flag top, these just seemed to be the icing on the cake!
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