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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | This is going to take a little review.
Please hang in there.
About two months ago I posted.....
Last nights “Folkin Friday” open mic started with a Fishman rep giving a lengthy demonstration. He talked about being able to compensate for rooms with high ceilings or lots of carpeting or any other variation. He went on about the seven hundred and some different images that are available. Then he let the audience ask for specific combinations like…. “Let me hear at Taylor 614 with Nupinbluper(?) mic. He would then fiddle with his laptop and bring up the requested sample. Near the end he said,
“Let me show my favorite examples”.
“First here is a Martin D-28”
‘oooooh” says the crowd.
“Now here’s a Gibson jumbo with a rose wood back and sides.”
“aaahhh” says the crowd.
“Now… just to show you how this system can model even a BAD guitar, here is an Ovation Celebrity.”
“eeeewwww” says the crowd.
“Isn’t that just awful???” “Doesn’t that make you want to put cotton in your ears???”
When I a little agitated my leg starts to jump. Pam put her hand on my knee and said, “Easy Brad… easy”.
Maybe I shoulda been a good little monkey-boy and said something. If the “request” part of the demo wasn’t over I would have asked if he had any Adamas images. I did intend to have a private word with him later but he was out the door right after he was finished.
Paul Huber, the store owner, felt it necessary to come over, put his hand on my shoulder and apologize for the “crack on Ovation”. “We’ll just have to educate him on the Adamas line”, he said.
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Brad .
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Today I recieved this e-mail.
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 12:18 PM
Subject: Huber Breese Folkin Friday Post comments
Brad (SlipKid / Ovation Fan Club Member # 1761),
As Fishman’s Director of Retail Sales, I personally take responsibility for these comments. Ovation has been a valued partner of ours for many years, and the comments made by this employee are unacceptable.
Rest assured that this is not the view of the Fishman organization, and we realize the impact a comment like this has on Ovation and Fishman customers. As a measure of correction, the employee in question has been terminated.
Please accept my apology on Fishman’s behalf, and feel free to contact me at any time to discuss.
Regards,
Scott Lombardo
Scott Lombardo | Director of Sales | Fishman Acoustic Amplification
To which I replied....
Dear Mr. Lombardo,
I receive your letter with mixed emotions. I'm not quite sure just how word of this got up to you. Since you refer to the Ovation Fan Club and even to my specific member number I have to assume your response comes from my post. I am impressed that Fishman takes just one man's opinion to heart. On the other side I am deeply regretful that my personal opinion has cost someone their job. In fact I'm probably closer to horrified about it. Except for that one small portion I found the demonstration enjoyable and interesting.
I would be the first to admit that the Ovation guitar used in the demonstration, an entry level Celebrity model, was not a very good example of an Ovation product. Also, although the 5 guitars I own are all Ovations, I have great respect for any great sounding guitar regardless of who made it. By now we at the Ovation FanClub are used to jokes about our "plastic" guitars. Maybe it's just that we are more aware of the high end guitars made by Ovation that can stand tall next to any other in their class.
I have to say that the night of the demonstration I was surprised that store owner Paul Huber felt it necessary to come over and apologize to me for what the demonstrator, (I'm sorry... I don't even remember his name) had said. Yes, I was wearing my Ovation hat & shirt but at the end of the day there are many more important things to be concerned over that someone's guitar preference.
Lastly let me say that I don't think the demonstrators remarks by themselves merited his release and I am sorry and feel an uncomfortable responsibility for that happening.
Regards and Regrets,
Brad Durasa
Algonac, MI
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Well, I agree with Brad, the guy didn't deserve to get canned for re-hashing what is nothing more than pretty much industry-wide received wisdom for those who neither know nor care. That said, he should have been someone who knew, but there ya go. But, whether it's a PR excecise or not, it's very cool that someone in authority at Fishman took the time to chase down Brad, apolgise and state the company line. Good for them. |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | I agree with all points expressed. I'm almost hoping that somebody here stands up and claims it as a joke. But it is nice that Fishman is serious about it's relationships.... |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | I doubt he was terminated for that one incident. Most terminations are the result of the straw that broke the camel's back. The demonstration shows a lack of basic marketing tact, if there is such a thing, and I suspect Fishman had other examples of similar failings.
On the other hand, maybe people really pay attention to what we write on this board. If so, I extend my deepest apologies to all that I have offended. Except, Cliff,...and Jeff,...and Dave...and John...and Paul (all of them). Never mind, apology retracted. |
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Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 430
Location: Lebanon, TN | Actually I am with Mark. That comment might have got a guy censured if all other aspects of his perfomance were working out, but not fired. I suspect he was on a slippery slope already.
I am much more interested that our little collective is observed (like by a huge hubble telescope pointed at us by beings from planet Aura....hmmm....Yes its true I have justpolished off the best part of a bottle of Beaujolious Neouveau but fascinating all the same.)
Brad dont feel any direct guilt. There is no act of omission or comission on your part here. You could have told the same story to a friend while waiting at a departure gate in the airport not on this forum. Impact could have been the same. |
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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 5327
Location: Cicero, NY | I also have to agree with everything written so far. Shouldn't have been said but nowhere near enough by itself to be termination worthy so that couldn't have been the entire story. Glad they listen and responded but I would also feel a bit of guilt. Probably unnecessarily but guilt nonetheless. |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15654
Location: SoCal | Stuart, how can you be a member here for over 4 years and not even have 300 posts? You had better get off your duff and start wasting more time here. Let Weas and Waskel be your inspirations..... |
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Joined:
November 2006
Posts: 3969
| Brad, you can't help but feel some responsibility, but I agree with everyone above. One incident is not a fire-able offense. The guy probably had a whole string of complaints against him, or his job performance was otherwise not up to standard. No guilt. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10581
Location: NJ | I get it from both ends customers and dealers. Dealers that I have known for years still send people over to me saying "yeah Al sells those plastic things" or I only deal with real guitars, etc. So I bite my lip and when they come over and play one of the koa guitars or an Adamas and claim "these ain't half bad" I just have to smile a little.
I bet that guy would have NEVER made those remarks about ANY other guitar, why? it is ok to slag on ovations, it is acceptable in the industry and it has been for 40 years.
Although I tend to agree that it probably was not the only reason why the guy got sacked, I think he deserved it. we all know where the vip comes from, we all know about the fishman bridge in the vxt, I would bet that they would want to promote the guitars of the companies that they are in partnership with. (sorry for the bad usage in that last sentence)
so with the future of Ovation and especially Adamas up in the air right now, and since KMC has been bought by Fender a big fish in the pond, it would make sense that the guy got canned. I think it is positive that a company strives to correct problems. but probably this guy will be around in some other capacity in some other company spewing his ovation/adamas hate all over again. |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
Stuart, how can you be a member here for over 4 years and not even have 300 posts? You had better get off your duff and start wasting more time here. Let Weas and Waskel be your inspirations..... I'm offended Paul. I waste almost twice as much time as Weaser, although I can't compete with Waskel.
Is getting off your duff and wasting more time oxymoronic? |
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Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Get busy and waste time?
This from the PI who just passed 9100 posts... |
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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 5327
Location: Cicero, NY | Wow, I'm not sure if he's standing up for me or not...'course, if you want to get technical, I had almost 1,000 wasted posts and then had a login issue and had to start all over so I've wasted a whole lot more time than it shows. And I think I should get some extra points for screwing up after an entire year and a thousand posts too...add in the two Tours in Ct and I'd say we're about even! Not that I'm particularly proud of that you understand...aw, I'm going to bed. |
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Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 430
Location: Lebanon, TN | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
Stuart, how can you be a member here for over 4 years and not even have 300 posts? You had better get off your duff and start wasting more time here. Let Weas and Waskel be your inspirations..... I could be bitter and claim it was because I spend more time actually playing my guitars....but that would be a lie :-) Love hanging with you guys but sadly real life priorities intrudes all too often :-) |
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Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Weaser P:
Wow, I'm not sure if he's standing up for me or not... No.
Originally posted by Weaser P:
'course, if you want to get technical, I had almost 1,000 wasted posts and then had a login issue and had to start all over so I've wasted a whole lot more time than it shows. And I think I should get some extra points for screwing up after an entire year and a thousand posts too...add in the two Tours in Ct and I'd say we're about even! Wah, wah... ... oh, and wah. Coming to Amelia would have bought you some extra credit points.
Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
I extend my deepest apologies to all that I have offended. Except, Cliff,...and Jeff,...and Dave...and John...and Paul (all of them). Never mind, apology retracted. Mark, wouldn't it be faster and easier to just apologize to those you haven't offended? |
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Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Back in Sept I heard a Martin HD-28 with the Fishman
Acoustic Matrix, a 900 series Taylor Aura system and Ovations OP-24 in my Tbolt.
(I let a guy with a dead battery play it)
I heard all 3 through the speakers.
All 3 sounded good and personal preference as to which one sounded best.
OP-24 is 1985 technology.
In terms of the sacked employee, he earned it.
I am sick of the imports being used as an exmple
of Ovation. The USA Ovation can stand up with ANY
Martin Taylor or Gibson.
They copare to guitars with $400 to $1000 higher list price. |
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January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | Uh, oh... Gotta be careful what I get "fightin' mad about"!!! |
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January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | What I find amazing is that a respected gear maker would read a (valid) criticism here and actually respond to you and apologize for their wrong doing. Well done, Fishman.
Dave |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | Originally posted by The Wabbit Formerly Known As Waskel: Mark, wouldn't it be faster and easier to just apologize to those you haven't offended? [/QB]
I couldn't think of anyone. |
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Joined:
May 2005
Posts: 486
Location: North Carolina | With respect to the perception of Ovations as inferior, my feeling is, "So what?" If I like them and they work well for me, why do I care how others perceive them?
With respect to this product demonstrator getting fired, if I were Fishman I'd have fired him too, if for no other reason than he insulted a LOT of potential customers. There again, it's not as if he lost a high paying job and ruined a lucrative career. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Very good, Mark! snort, snort...
Brad, don't worry about it. Remember what happened when George put out the menu fire.
No company worth anything would have fired the guy if that was his only offense (as grievous as that was, using an import as an example). And I agree, Dave, good move on Mr. Lombardo's part. Obviously we are not the only ones reading this drivel... |
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Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Larry Fishman is a great guy, and a good friend.
Runs a good company with great stuff.
I use his stuff all the time.
However he got the word about this incident(it wasn't from me) he did the right thing. It also wasn't the only thing that this guy did, we can bet on that.
Ovation does a lot of business and development with Fishman.
An unfortunate ending to an unfortunate incident, but the right ending just the same. |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | The guy just learned (albeit the hard way):
". . Don't Sh!t Where You Eat . ."
Sounds like a prime candidate t'be now working at Guitar Center . . . |
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Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | The first 9 presets on the Zoom A2.1u are imaged models based on a variety of guitars including several Martins and Gibsons of various sizes, and even an Adamas. Not sure how accurate these models are to the real thing, but listening to their differences is enlightening. The capabilities of these small and relatively inexpensive digital modeling products are amazing. The Fishman rep might have made a bigger impression if he had started with a relatively inexpensive entry level guitar, demonstrate how a modeling device can greatly improve its sound and tone, then work his (or her) way up through more expensive models. |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | I think you're right Cliff |
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March 2007
Posts: 665
Location: Tychy, Poland | i think he got what he deserved. come on, why do you feel pity for a closed-mind idiot? |
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The Fishman Aura Incident
