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Cracks 101 Questions??

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5-String Horn
Posted 2014-12-14 3:17 PM (#503790)
Subject: Cracks 101 Questions??


Joined:
October 2014
Posts: 12

Location: Ft Collins, CO
I've been keeping my eye open for an affordable Country Artist. 1124 or 1624 I really don't care that much. I plan to name it either Yusuf or Steve after Cat Stevens (cuz that's what he played). I may have found one but there is a substantial crack in the lower bout. Basically around the b-string, behind the bridge and extending about 6 inches toward the edge (but not to the edge) with the grain. Seems pretty common to Ovations (and apparently early Taylors) in the dryer Rockies. It may or may not effect the sound, I won't be able to make that call until I actually play it. The only info I have is from photos on CL.

What should I be looking for as to the fix-ability potential of both the functional and cosmetic? I'm not really a luthier (though I've thought about pretending to be one in the future). I don't know the entire pedigree on this instrument but, with the exception of the crack it looks to not have been abused too much in it's 40 year or so existence. Headstock looks pristine in the photo.

I guess what I ultimately am asking is are there any red flags or deal breakers that someone might wanna know when purchasing a 40 year old solid spruce topped Ovation with a large crack in it? AND with the intent of possibly fixing said crack?
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jay
Posted 2014-12-14 3:31 PM (#503791 - in reply to #503790)
Subject: Re: Cracks 101 Questions??



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1224

Location: Texas
On a 1624...if you wait, one will show up in decent shape. Great guitar. Fun to play.
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FlySig
Posted 2014-12-14 6:02 PM (#503792 - in reply to #503790)
Subject: Re: Cracks 101 Questions??



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 3849

Location: Utah
First I'd want to know if the crack is in the finish or goes through the wood. Some sellers don't know the difference or don't specify what kind of crack it is. Finish cracks are a non-issue in terms of tone and structural integrity, but they do reduce value (good for the buyer).

If there is a noticeable difference in the angle of reflection across the crack, it means the wood is cracked and the edges are separating. If there is no change in angle, the crack may go into the wood but the edges of the crack line up and can be glued.

I would want to see such a guitar before deciding how bad the crack is or how much repair it might need.
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d'ovation
Posted 2014-12-14 6:26 PM (#503793 - in reply to #503792)
Subject: Re: Cracks 101 Questions??


Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 770

Location: Canada

FlySig - 2014-12-14 5:02 PM Finish cracks are a non-issue in terms of tone and structural integrity, but they do reduce value (good for the buyer).

Apparently, for Martins and maybe some other brands some people consider (nitrocellulose) laquer "checking" a sign of vintage character and may even try to induce cracks to potentially increase the value of their guitar ... go figure.

 

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seesquare
Posted 2014-12-14 10:04 PM (#503795 - in reply to #503793)
Subject: Re: Cracks 101 Questions??


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3158

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
I think 1124/1624 models were glue-in necks. Have the action checked out. Break-angle on the bridge. Height of the saddle. Any buzzing in the frets.
Wouldn't want to do a "bowl-bend" on one, unless ABSOLUTELY necessary. Probably could live with some cracks & wrinkles- that's mostly cosmetic.
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numbfingers
Posted 2014-12-16 9:28 PM (#503851 - in reply to #503790)
Subject: RE: Cracks 101 Questions??


Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 1081

Location: NW Washington State
This one? https://fortcollins.craigslist.org/msg/4795222978.html Looks pretty good for the $300 (maybe less?) price, especially if the case is nice as described.

My sunburst 1624 has finish cracks on either side of the bridge, coincidentally near the B/E strings. The cracks could be described as "with the grain", but really they're slightly diagonal. The top is pretty flat, so I think the cracks are only reducing the resale value. The one you're looking at might be similar.

The 1624 Country Artist is fun to play, really easy on the left hand. I wonder if Cat Stevens played the steel string 1114/1614 Folklore instead?

-Steve W.
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numbfingers
Posted 2014-12-16 9:39 PM (#503852 - in reply to #503795)
Subject: Re: Cracks 101 Questions??


Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 1081

Location: NW Washington State
seesquare - 2014-12-14 10:04 PM
I think 1124/1624 models were glue-in necks. Have the action checked out. Break-angle on the bridge. Height of the saddle. Any buzzing in the frets.
Wouldn't want to do a "bowl-bend" on one, unless ABSOLUTELY necessary. Probably could live with some cracks & wrinkles- that's mostly cosmetic.


CC, looking inside my blue-label 1624, I see what looks like a block of wood at the neck end, shaped to fit the bowl. No obvious screws or bolts. Glued in?

It's easy too look inside 'cause I broke the D string. Maybe I'll put on some ball-end strings just to get it back in action. I hate restringing nylons, maybe because I don't have much practice.

Edited by numbfingers 2014-12-16 9:40 PM
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DanSavage
Posted 2014-12-17 1:20 PM (#503862 - in reply to #503851)
Subject: RE: Cracks 101 Questions??



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1949

Location: Lake Forest, CA
numbfingers - 2014-12-16 7:28 PM

I wonder if Cat Stevens played the steel string 1114/1614 Folklore instead?

-Steve W.


It looks to me in the video below from 1976 that he is playing a 1614.

See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtgXus3eiII
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2014-12-17 3:50 PM (#503867 - in reply to #503862)
Subject: RE: Cracks 101 Questions??


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15289

Location: SoCal
DanSavage - 2014-12-17 11:20 AM

numbfingers - 2014-12-16 7:28 PM

I wonder if Cat Stevens played the steel string 1114/1614 Folklore instead?

-Steve W.


It looks to me in the video below from 1976 that he is playing a 1614.

See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtgXus3eiII


He was....
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5-String Horn
Posted 2014-12-17 10:06 PM (#503875 - in reply to #503790)
Subject: Re: Cracks 101 Questions??


Joined:
October 2014
Posts: 12

Location: Ft Collins, CO
DANG!!!!!! All this time I thought it was the Country Artist . . . but I am obviously mistaken cuz there is clearly inlay in the neck. I checked a couple of the Majikat videos . . . yup . . . embarrassing . . . . kind of like when I found out no one ever really gets arrested for tearing off mattress tags. Thanks for warning me. If I am able to score this one I'll have to reconsider names . . . . what do ya think of Ramona???
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Mark in Boise
Posted 2014-12-17 10:15 PM (#503876 - in reply to #503790)
Subject: Re: Cracks 101 Questions??


Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12655

Location: Boise, Idaho
I was going to say that I thought he played a 1614, based on my memory of the poster of him playing an Ovation with a lei around his neck. As usual, my memory is bad. I have the poster in his greatest hits album and he's playing a Legend there. Not a slothead. In the youtube video above, he's definitely playing a 1614. His backup guitar player is playing an Ovation in the video and on the poster, too, but it's too hard for me to see what model.
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DanSavage
Posted 2014-12-18 9:34 AM (#503887 - in reply to #503875)
Subject: Re: Cracks 101 Questions??



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1949

Location: Lake Forest, CA
5-String Horn - 2014-12-17 8:06 PM
what do ya think of Ramona???


Well, since the Country Artist was co-developed by Glen Campbell, you could just call it Glen.

Or, if you're so inclined you could call it La Boeuf. ( True Grit reference )

Edited by DanSavage 2014-12-18 9:34 AM
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5-String Horn
Posted 2014-12-18 2:24 PM (#503896 - in reply to #503790)
Subject: Re: Cracks 101 Questions??


Joined:
October 2014
Posts: 12

Location: Ft Collins, CO
Luv the True Grit reference . . . La Boeuf it is!!!!!
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