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1990 Elite 1868 Project

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arumako
Posted 2019-01-14 2:50 AM (#546537 - in reply to #546505)
Subject: Re: 1990 Elite 1868 Project



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 824

Location: Yokohama, Japan

2wheeldrummer - 2019-01-11 8:17 AM

...perseverance and patience will pay off in the end!!!!

Thanks 2wheeldrummer! Not looking for a big pay-off. Hoping for an instrument that "sound" that we all love so much.

Already seeing limitations with the epoxy finish I used. Because of my miscalculation and resin over flow, there was a lot of flashing that needed to be cleaned up around the bowl and epis. Maybe my mixing was bad or the resin just got old.  The stuff is very brittle, and chips off too easily. The chips are hardly noticeable, but I was hoping for a more durable result. Good lesson learned!

Anyway, the bridge's saddle slot needed to be routed, and the handy jig used for my 5986 Nakao came in handy again...

1868 bridge  1868 saddle slot  1868 saddle slot clean

Everything fit together pretty well; so after some dry runs of clamping the neck into place, I decided to put it all together. Despite my misgivings about the Finishing Resin, I have nothing but praise for Z-Poxy adhesives. Scuffed up the body with 100 grit sp to ensure good adhesion. Put everything in the right place to ensure process efficiency. Turned to Z-Poxy's 30 Minute Epoxy product again. Applied just the right amount of adhesives under the fret board extension. Placed the neck in the correct position and finger-tightened the neck bolt (I know I've said this many times before; but man, I love these K-bar necks).

Grabbed my first clamp... squeeze, squeeze, squeeze... okay, that's about right... turned around to grab my second clamp, and CRACK! No, no, not the guitar, (thank God! That was my first thought too) but my first clamp... looks fine, but something in the clamping mechanism must have cracked... wasn't expecting this! Would have been SOL , had this been a mid-depth bowl! Time to invest in some better clamps... After the minor mishap, I was able to run to my shed and grab a standard C-Clamp... not exactly "textbook", but nothing about this project has been "textbook" after all. LOL!

1868 neck clamped

Neck fit and position - perfect! Fret maintenance in 24-hours, install pre-amp and take her for a spin! Woohoo... Got a GOOD feeling about this one!

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DanSavage
Posted 2019-01-14 4:45 PM (#546553 - in reply to #546537)
Subject: Re: 1990 Elite 1868 Project



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1822

Location: Lake Forest, CA

arumako - 2019-01-14 12:50 AM

Already seeing limitations with the epoxy finish I used. Because of my miscalculation and resin over flow, there was a lot of flashing that needed to be cleaned up around the bowl and epis. Maybe my mixing was bad or the resin just got old.  The stuff is very brittle, and chips off too easily. The chips are hardly noticeable, but I was hoping for a more durable result. Good lesson learned!

Hi Ken,

I've been following your progress on this. I'm glad to see it nearing completion.

Generally speaking, the slower an epoxy cures the more rigid (brittle) it will be once cured. The ZPoxy finishing resin is pretty much the most rigid formulation ZPoxy sells. It's main use in modeling is as a laminating resin to apply lightweight fiberglass to the outer skin of the model as a base for the painted finish.

I'm curious to read how it sounds.

Dan

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arumako
Posted 2019-01-15 9:12 PM (#546583 - in reply to #546553)
Subject: Re: 1990 Elite 1868 Project



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 824

Location: Yokohama, Japan

DanSavage - 2019-01-14 6:45 AM

Hi Ken,

I've been following your progress on this. I'm glad to see it nearing completion.

Generally speaking, the slower an epoxy cures the more rigid (brittle) it will be once cured. The ZPoxy finishing resin is pretty much the most rigid formulation ZPoxy sells. It's main use in modeling is as a laminating resin to apply lightweight fiberglass to the outer skin of the model as a base for the painted finish.

I'm curious to read how it sounds.

Dan

Hi Dan! I've surely missed your wisdom and insight! Thanks for chimming in!

Yeah, I'd have to say my Finishing Resin experiment ended as a failure. The chipping also seems to indicate that the epoxy finish isn't adhering well to the nitro based sanding sealer. I'm guessing using the Finishing Resin instead of the sanding sealer, and following that up with a finishing epoxy would have been better. I was getting a lot of bubbling with the FResin; so as an experiment, I tried some 30-minute Z-Poxy on some wood blanks, and that was much easier to work with (no bubbling) and my sample finished durable without chipping. Unfortunately, I opted to use the FResin because, I kept assuming the 30-minute product as an "adhesive". Still, a good lesson learned. This current finish will probably chip off after a year or two. Will probably remove the epoxy and shoot a nitro clear coat when the time comes.

While you're at it... got any other advice for me? Oh yeah, my son is building his 1st electric kit from Stewmac @ college (X-mas gift). He's planning on using the Eastwood 2K over a sonic blue lacquer. Will that work out okay?

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arumako
Posted 2019-01-16 11:04 AM (#546588 - in reply to #500953)
Subject: RE: 1990 Elite 1868 Project



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 824

Location: Yokohama, Japan

After at least four years of silence my 1990 Elite sings again! Woohoo! The recycled AA Sitka spruce top is only just starting to get back into the swing of things...

done 1

She is looking & sounding mighty fine indeed! Here's another shot of her resting in her case! 

done 2

Will post sound byte later, but I can't thank the BFLG enough for all your generous encouragement. Think I'm gonna take DetlefMichel's advice and swap my stock gold tuning buttons for some black ebony ones. Woohoo!

 



Edited by arumako 2019-01-16 11:09 AM
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marenostrum
Posted 2019-01-16 11:33 AM (#546589 - in reply to #500953)
Subject: Re: 1990 Elite 1868 Project



Joined:
August 2007
Posts: 998

Location: Tuscany, Italy
Well done job, Ken. Congratulations !
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2019-01-16 1:04 PM (#546590 - in reply to #546589)
Subject: Re: 1990 Elite 1868 Project


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1340

Location: Indy
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Love O Fair
Posted 2019-01-16 1:29 PM (#546592 - in reply to #500953)
Subject: Re: 1990 Elite 1868 Project



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 985

Location: What week?
Just think how nice it would have turned out if you hadn't rushed through the project.
--or--
That promise you wouldn't shave your beard until you finished this has at least kept the floor swept nicely.
--or--
Don't worry, there will eventually be a red light and the train will stop.
--or--
--or--
--or..
Nice job, Ken! Congratulations, and thanks for an interesting journey. Your skill and talent once again shine through! Oh, and your patience, too.
(sorry, couldn't resist)


Edited by Love O Fair 2019-01-16 1:45 PM
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2019-01-16 5:41 PM (#546600 - in reply to #500953)
Subject: Re: 1990 Elite 1868 Project


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15245

Location: SoCal
Looks beautiful! Looking forward to hearing it.....
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DanSavage
Posted 2019-01-16 6:53 PM (#546604 - in reply to #546583)
Subject: Re: 1990 Elite 1868 Project



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1822

Location: Lake Forest, CA

arumako - 2019-01-15 7:12 PM

Hi Dan! I've surely missed your wisdom and insight! Thanks for chimming in!

Yeah, I'd have to say my Finishing Resin experiment ended as a failure. The chipping also seems to indicate that the epoxy finish isn't adhering well to the nitro based sanding sealer. I'm guessing using the Finishing Resin instead of the sanding sealer, and following that up with a finishing epoxy would have been better. I was getting a lot of bubbling with the FResin; so as an experiment, I tried some 30-minute Z-Poxy on some wood blanks, and that was much easier to work with (no bubbling) and my sample finished durable without chipping. Unfortunately, I opted to use the FResin because, I kept assuming the 30-minute product as an "adhesive". Still, a good lesson learned. This current finish will probably chip off after a year or two. Will probably remove the epoxy and shoot a nitro clear coat when the time comes.

While you're at it... got any other advice for me? Oh yeah, my son is building his 1st electric kit from Stewmac @ college (X-mas gift). He's planning on using the Eastwood 2K over a sonic blue lacquer. Will that work out okay?

One good thing about using the finishing resin is that the hardness won't deaden the sound.

Keep in mind that the finishing resin and 30-minute are both epoxies. AFAIK, the main difference is the cure time and viscosity.

There are very few materials that epoxy will form a chemical bond. It usually only makes a mechanical bond. If you use sandpaper with too fine of a grit the epoxy won't get enough tooth and it can separate. I'll usually use 320-grit as the final prep.

I agree. If it starts looking too bad you can always peel it off and put something else down.

Eastwood 2K over lacquer should be fine, but finishing a test piece first would be in order. At the very least the lacquer will need to be sanded to give the finish some tooth.



Edited by DanSavage 2019-01-16 6:56 PM
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Love O Fair
Posted 2019-01-16 8:59 PM (#546606 - in reply to #500953)
Subject: Re: 1990 Elite 1868 Project



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 985

Location: What week?
@Dan - >>>'ll usually use 320-grit as the final prep.<<<

A step that I am curious about. Is that wet or dry? If wet, do you first dampen the paper, or the surface, or both? How deep?
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DanSavage
Posted 2019-01-17 1:36 AM (#546612 - in reply to #546606)
Subject: Re: 1990 Elite 1868 Project



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1822

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Love O Fair - 2019-01-16 6:59 PM

@Dan - >>>'ll usually use 320-grit as the final prep.<<<

A step that I am curious about. Is that wet or dry? If wet, do you first dampen the paper, or the surface, or both? How deep?


Whether I dry sand or wet sand depends upon how far along in the finishing process I'm at.

Initial sanding is done dry so I don't get the wood wet. Once I've got a decent base, I'll switch over to wet sanding.

Once I get to the wet-sanding step I move up to 400-grit.

I sand the top using a 2"x2"x3" styrofoam block with whatever grit sandpaper I'm using. I keep a small plastic bowl with some water in it. I dip the sanding block in the water, shake off the excess, then sand a 6"x6" area at a time.

When I'm done sanding that area, I wipe off the sanding slurry with a paper towel and move on to the next area.

I try to sand off as little as possible. It's really easy to take off too much and burn through the finish into the bare wood.

So, I only sand the area a little bit, clean off the slurry and dry the area to check my progress, then repeat until all the surface imperfections, such as orange peel, etc., are gone.



Edited by DanSavage 2019-01-17 1:41 AM
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DetlefMichel
Posted 2019-01-17 11:41 AM (#546615 - in reply to #500953)
Subject: Re: 1990 Elite 1868 Project



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 539

Location: Muenster/Germany
...if I go back to page 1 and watch the pics...you made a wonderful guitar out of this piece of junk. The top with the inlaid epis makes it look look like a 3k$ guitar. I just love it. Chapeau!
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