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Location: Canada | Does anybody know if Kaman has lowered the old list prices in Canada. I was shocked to see even though our dollar is at par with the US dollar, some models up here have list prices $1000 higher. :-(
Martin, Fender, Gibson, and a whole slew of companies lowered prices to reflect parity. Here's hoping that Kaman has followed suit. |
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Location: Canada | Anybody? :-) |
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Location: Brisbane Australia | Gabriel, you think you have problems?
Try living "downunder"
Well if Fender has, it should follow
:D Same stable
AJ |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Kaman wouldn't, Fender probably will. |
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Location: NJ | even though the dollar is equal at this time (oh God I can rant on this forever.... must resist)
there are a ton of other costs involoved with shipping and sending items to any country outside of the US. I ship internationally all the time. there is always a bunch of paperwork, if you take credit cards the seller gets hit with additional fees and there is also the time involved. Add that with the crap shoot of getting something past customs and not having them break it and the cost are more. I think you may see a reduction in list price but not comparable with USa but I may be wrong what the hell do I know? I am just an idiot that sells gear for a living. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | At least you didn't work at a gas station. |
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Location: south east Michigan | In my business experience published list prices, with very few exceptions, never go down. Discounts to dealers and distributers may be temporarily adjusted for a specific market. |
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Location: Canada | Actually, Martin, Fender, Gibson, and many major manufacturers radically adjusted prices in Canada. In many cases, we are at par or very close with our American friends.
I appreciate the added costs in shipping (minor ;-) really) but in the published prices I saw from Kaman Canada, the prices were ridiculously higher.
Try $1000 more for a Al Di Meola II, $900 more for a Custom Legend, $600-$700 more for a Balladeer. Let's just say the 'wholesale' prices in Canada, are higher than retail street prices in the USA.
Examples:
Custom Legend List Price: $3399 CDN ($3386 USD) vs. US MSRP of $2499.
Wholesale Dealer Price of $1700 CDN ($1693 USD) in Canada vs. Ebay/Online Street Price of $1499 USD for authorized USA dealers.
That's just sad :-( |
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Location: NJ | Originally posted by Arc Angel:
That's just sad :-( it is just the reality of doing business.
paying a premium for something that is unobtainable is the way it is.
I sell bumches of stuff worldwide. it is the nature of the global economy but many people are not interested in doing an international deal even if it saves them significant money because of warranty issues and many people you just can't trust you wire them money and then never get a product.
although I have never worked in a gas station, I sometimes feel like I would be better off. |
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Location: Canada | Kaman is a big company. They are simply profiteering in Canada. No excuse for the discrepancy. Given the fact that we have free trade between USA/Canada, Canadian buyers can simply buy and import from the USA duty free. I could buy a Guitar on Ebay from a authorized US dealer (or direct when down south) import it duty free (and even if I had to pay for shipping) land it less than the wholesale cost of a CDN dealer.
All Kaman is doing is hurting its CDN dealers, its CDN market share, and duping unsuspecting CDN buyers. It does the brand a disservice as it limits its exposure.
Sure, a little premium might be justified. But try to justify a $800-1000 premium per guitar. How much does it cost to ship guitars in bulk? Why can Martin, Gibson, Fender, etc., do what Kaman can't?
Sadly, Kaman has a reputation for being very expensive (as a distributor) and its adversely affects its orders and sales in Canada. This I've heard from several big CDN dealers.
Hopefully, they'll change their ways so more people can sample Ovations, etc., in Canada and buy direct from authorized CDN dealers. |
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| Last Tour I asked Frank Untermeyer about the prices in the UK. He said it was nothing to do with him - local distributors set the pricing country by country.
The Fender takeover may be the best thing ina long while for non-usa customers. They don't use distributors in the big western markets so they control the prices - uk prices are much closer to usa prices on Fender than they are on Ovation - so if they do start using their own international distribution we might all be better off.
Mind you it's just as easy to buy from al and pay the duties at your end. There is no paperwork beyond writing a cheque.
And coming from Joisey they have that little "extra" protection. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | I'm sure at the factory level, Kaman is just gettong one price out the door. Any other price differences happen at the many points between manufacturer and consumer.
Compare what the farmer gets at his gate with the landed grocery store price for instance.
AND, to be fair, remember....NObody wants to work for free! Ripoff though it may seem from one perspective, someone's just trying to put food on the table.
I've always preferred to translate 'Caveat Emptor' as 'let the buyer be aware' rather than the common 'buyer beware.' The difference in emphasis is important. |
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Location: Canada | In Canada, Kaman is the distributor. Nobody is working for free, but they are noted (by dealers) to be very unresponsive. Remember, trade between Canada and the USA is duty free.
Spoke to someone at Canada's largest music chain (whose parent company actually distributes Gibson) and they said the Kaman was the only company which hadn't responded to the wide price discrepancy (Martin, Taylor, Gibson, etc., are basically close to par).
As a result, they've lost a lot of Takamine and Ovation business. This chain of shops no longer stocks any Ovation USA models or any higher price Takamine models. Special order only. That's not smart business on Kaman's part. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | I'm sure Al would be happy to pick up the slack.... |
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Location: NJ | Originally posted by fillhixx:
I'm sure Al would be happy to pick up the slack.... absolutely |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Hmm...pricing overhere is ridiculously high, last year , my toolkit "disappeared" , prompting me to write the factory for new wrenches, they responded by informing the Dealer overhere, who wrote me a letter (by snail-mail no less) saying that they "could NOT help me"...!!..a quick phone call to Mr. J Budney at the factory (a Very Amiable Person) got me the wrenches within a week, this anecdote might highlight that high pricing , aloofness , carelesness , might be at the importer`s/dealer`s end ( inspite of what they say) :(
Vic |
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Location: Canada | I assume Al is alpep?
Solid Top, I can understand independent distributors trying to pull a fast one, but I'm talking about Kaman Canada itself. They are just hurting themselves.
Anyway, I'll check out Lost Art Vintage. Thanks for the suggestion. |
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Location: Mississauga, Canada | Hello...
A very interesting and important thread, with many valid concerns and points raised. As the head of Kaman Canada, please let me offer a few thoughts and updates.
Kaman Canada monitors all of our pricing very closely relative to the U.S. Since "list prices" can be misleading, and evolve based on different market factors (discounts, shipping costs, etc.), I use as a baseline the street pricing found at major online U.S. websites, adding in the cost of shipping to my address in the Greater Toronto area.
On average, the cost of shipping for a guitar, plus brokerage and paperwork, is around U$100 plus any additional insurance purchased. Canadian taxes are added at the border as well, so there's no getting around those. Hard as it may seem to believe, a guitar you see hanging on the wall in Canada at $499 is actually cheaper than the same instrument advertised as a "super special" $399 in the States. |
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Location: Mississauga, Canada | <...continued...>
Slipkid hit it on the nose when he mentioned adjusting discounts to reflect changing market conditions. Over the past 16 weeks, the Canadian dollar has moved from 0.94 to 1.10 and back down to below 1.00. If I were to issue a new price list every time the price had moved by 5%, we would have had about six new issues in that time! Instead, we have adjusted our dealer discounts throughout this period to make sure that a level playing field was maintained between the two countries. Unfortunately, that doesn't always get immediately translated to the pricing you might see on the wall of the store, so the perception of differences remains.
With the dollar settling somewhat, I have just signed off on the 2008 Ovation Canada price list. This will be going to dealers shortly, and I can send a copy to anyone who would want to message me through the board. If you do find a U.S. price your dealer feels they cannot match, they have my number and can give me a call.
Thanks for the opportunity to comment on an issue which has certainly been top-of-mind for many Canadians recently. I hope this has helped to clear up any confusion on the topic and provide some solid information. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | With the powerful Canadian Dollar (aka "The Looney"), I don't see why you don't make a trip to the good old USA.
This is what you do. Find a place that has a good return policy like Guitar Center, or has a good selection like lost art vintage. Make sure they have what you want or order what you want, have it sent to the store in the US.
If you live in Montreal, you could go to Albany for the day, or maybe visit Philly and you can visit Al, or in Toronto go to Buffalo etc. you get the idea.
Play the guitars in the store, give back what you don't like, take the one you like and go home. What you tell the customs agents is your business. There problem solved.
And with the money you saved you probably paid for a nice little overnight in Philly. Your wife will love you for it. |
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Location: enid, ok | Also the taxes/duties/ of different countries vary, sometimes signifigantly.
But Al's no slacker; he'll pick it up! Al, you ought to use that in an ad. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | And as I recall, at least for Americans you can try to get back some of the Candadian taxes you paid. I bought a bunch of wine and cheese up in Montreal and the Agents couldn't care less and I got the taxes back. The savings coming to the US could really add up. What are you waiting for? |
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Location: Canada | Thank you fivefour. Your comments are appreciated. Hopefully, the new prices will be good enough to stimulate demand for the brand on our side of the border.
Nobody is complaining about a little discrepancy, its just that when it gets out of hand one has second thoughts. Good to know that Kaman Canada is addressing the issue.
Sent you a PM. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Echo that thank you for the ROC. |
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List Prices in Canada?
