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1967 Balladeer Rebuild...

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d'ovation
Posted 2015-08-08 7:41 PM (#514191 - in reply to #494306)
Subject: Re: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...


Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 770

Location: Canada
Dan you have a great way of documenting your projects. It certainly gives me GAS for a shiny bowl balladeer.
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DanSavage
Posted 2015-08-08 9:35 PM (#514192 - in reply to #514190)
Subject: Re: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1949

Location: Lake Forest, CA
clrules - 2015-08-08 5:34 PM

Beautimus!!

Did you use the Old Brown Glue on both tops?


Thanks, kindly.

No. Actually, I used Hysol 9462 on the torrefied top and Old Brown Glue (OBG) on the practice top.

I'm still undecided whether to use the Old Brown Glue for the braces on the torrefied top. I know that Ovation probably originally used some sort of epoxy for the braces, and I know that 9462 has good acoustic properties and it'll never come loose, save a really hard hit on the top.

OTOH, the OBG will also have excellent acoustic properties, but in a super-humid environment the braces might loosen. The only unknown is how well the OBG grabs onto the torrefied wood. I have some scrap I'm going to use as a test.

Decisions, decisions...
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DanSavage
Posted 2015-08-08 9:36 PM (#514193 - in reply to #514191)
Subject: Re: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1949

Location: Lake Forest, CA
merlin666 - 2015-08-08 5:41 PM

Dan you have a great way of documenting your projects. It certainly gives me GAS for a shiny bowl balladeer.


Thanks!

Yeah, I'm dying to hear how this one will sound when it's done. I might have to hang onto this for a while to make sure it's good enough to send back to Jay. (LOL! Just kidding, Jay!)
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DanSavage
Posted 2015-08-14 9:33 AM (#514319 - in reply to #494306)
Subject: RE: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1949

Location: Lake Forest, CA

I took the wood to the woodworking shop to get the tops thickness sanded.

Here's the sander. It's a production size machine, so I'm sure Ovation used something similar.



The practice top is leaving the sander.

The final top is leaving the sander.

Although the platter did put a taper into the wood, the taper wasn't as sharp as I'd hoped. The belt that carries the parts through the sander is rubber. I figure that the pressure rollers were compressing the belt causing the angled platter to more or less level itself out. The wood still has a taper, but instead of it being a .030" taper, it's more like .020". In any event, the wood is sanded down and progress continues.

The body outline has been transferred to the wood.

And, cut out.

Looking good.

Bridge alignment holes have been measured, marked and drilled.

And, the positioning and alignment have been verified.

Tonight, I'll mark the position of the braces and the fiberglass reinforcement strip and get the strip laid down so that I can start laying down the braces tomorrow.

 



Edited by DanSavage 2015-08-14 9:36 AM
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jay
Posted 2015-08-14 11:29 AM (#514326 - in reply to #514319)
Subject: RE: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1224

Location: Texas

"Looking good"

Totally an understatement...That top freakin awesome. This is very cool, watching it all come together on the bowl. Thanks again Dan.

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DanSavage
Posted 2015-08-14 12:42 PM (#514331 - in reply to #494306)
Subject: Re: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1949

Location: Lake Forest, CA
You're welcome, Jay.

Things should start progressing faster now. I'm working to have the guitar done sometime in September.
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2015-08-14 1:40 PM (#514333 - in reply to #494306)
Subject: Re: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15289

Location: SoCal
I figure to have the opportunity to play it after it's finished and have it to you Jay, say, in 2018. But early 2018.......
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DanSavage
Posted 2015-08-14 1:58 PM (#514335 - in reply to #514333)
Subject: Re: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1949

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Got to make sure it's broke in right, eh Paul?
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2015-08-14 3:44 PM (#514340 - in reply to #494306)
Subject: Re: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15289

Location: SoCal
Daniel, just trying to be helpful as a good troll should be.....
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jay
Posted 2015-08-14 5:28 PM (#514343 - in reply to #494306)
Subject: Re: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1224

Location: Texas
I was hoping to at least celebrate its 50th birthday with it. Heck, I will just come out to CA and do it out there.
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DanSavage
Posted 2015-08-14 6:15 PM (#514346 - in reply to #514343)
Subject: Re: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1949

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Maybe you should get the guitar a special gift for its 50th birthday, like some gold Kluson tuners. (it is the golden anniversary, after all)

http://www.wdmusic.com/super_kluson_3_on_side_gold_oval_metal_butto...
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ovie26
Posted 2015-08-14 7:42 PM (#514348 - in reply to #494306)
Subject: Re: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...


Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 153

Location: Pittsburgh
This is fascinating! Thank you!
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DanSavage
Posted 2015-08-14 10:52 PM (#514355 - in reply to #514348)
Subject: Re: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1949

Location: Lake Forest, CA
ovie26 - 2015-08-14 5:42 PM

This is fascinating! Thank you!


YVW. I'm glad you're enjoying it.
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DanSavage
Posted 2015-08-14 11:08 PM (#514357 - in reply to #494306)
Subject: RE: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1949

Location: Lake Forest, CA

So, progress continues...

Brace locations marked.



Braces in place.



Old vs. New...



Fiberglass strip masked.



Fiberglass strip applied.

Next update: braces!

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jay
Posted 2015-08-14 11:42 PM (#514358 - in reply to #514357)
Subject: RE: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1224

Location: Texas

Pretty amazing how the warmth in color of both tops is so close. 

Dan, do you think that all the additional bracing they threw on it, to address the cracking, had an adverse affect on the resonance?



Edited by jay 2015-08-14 11:45 PM
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clrules
Posted 2015-08-15 7:06 AM (#514360 - in reply to #514340)
Subject: Re: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...


Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 93

Location: Birmingham, AL
immoody - 2015-08-14 3:44 PM

Daniel, just trying to be helpful as a good troll should be.....


Good trolls are nice trolls.
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DanSavage
Posted 2015-08-15 2:59 PM (#514363 - in reply to #514358)
Subject: RE: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1949

Location: Lake Forest, CA

amosmoses - 2015-08-14 9:42 PM
Pretty amazing how the warmth in color of both tops is so close. 

Dan, do you think that all the additional bracing they threw on it, to address the cracking, had an adverse affect on the resonance?



Yeah, they are pretty close in color. I'm sure it had some effect, but probably not that much. I've got two similar bars across the lower X-brace in my 1619 and there's no shortage of resonance.

Interesting fact. As wood ages, it gets more opaque. Here's some photos.

First, a bright light shining through the top made from new spruce.



And a bright LED flashlight.



Next is the original 1967 top.

Finally, the torrefied top. Completely opaque.

What this means is that torrefied wood is the holy grail of counterfeit musical instruments. One of the ways that they check for counterfeit violins is to shine a light through the top and if they can see it, then they know that it's a fake. Well, that is, until torrefied tone wood became available. You can fake the look of old wood, but you can't fake the opacity. That's my useless bit of trivia for today.

Oh, yeah. I almost forgot.

I got the braces laid down today. Y`all should know the drill by now. Visqueen taped to the go-bar deck, apply glue to the braces, then use the go-bars to clamp them into place.



Next step is to patch the hole in the lower bout where the old strap button pick-up was, then get ready to glue the top into place.

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DanSavage
Posted 2015-08-18 9:10 PM (#514455 - in reply to #494306)
Subject: RE: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1949

Location: Lake Forest, CA

The top is done and ready for gluing to the body. I decided to use the Old Brown Glue on the braces to maximize the acoustic resonance. The top has a real nice tap tone. It's deeper and more resonant than the top made with new spruce.



But, before I can do that I needed to plug the hole in the bowl. Here is the inside and the outside of the bowl after removing the visqueen.

And, after sanding.

I made sure to add a couple of reinforcement patches so that if Jay ever decides to add a strap button, he can do so without fear of the plug popping out.

Here's a molly I got from JB at the MS. This is what's used to mount virtually all strap buttons on Ovation guitars, and it would be my first choice if I were to add a strap button to the bottom of 485.



Next job is to honor Jay's request to add a (self-aggrandizement) label to the inside commemorating my rebuilding of this guitar. Once the sticker is added, I'll glue the top down.

 



Edited by DanSavage 2015-08-18 9:13 PM
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jay
Posted 2015-08-18 9:39 PM (#514456 - in reply to #514455)
Subject: RE: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1224

Location: Texas

What a journey! Every post is like Christmas. I should have gotten you to agree that "aggrandizement" would be on the label.

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DanSavage
Posted 2015-08-19 9:01 AM (#514466 - in reply to #514456)
Subject: Re: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1949

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Ha ha! I haven't designed the label yet, so I can still add that. LOL!
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arumako
Posted 2015-08-20 8:19 AM (#514519 - in reply to #494306)
Subject: Re: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 846

Location: Yokohama, Japan
Amazing documentary DanSavage, chalk full of brilliant and informative trivia too! I had no idea that wood became opaque with age! Cool!
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SOBeach
Posted 2015-08-20 1:20 PM (#514534 - in reply to #514363)
Subject: RE: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...


Joined:
April 2010
Posts: 823

Location: sitting at my computer

DanSavage - What this means is that torrefied wood is the holy grail of counterfeit musical instruments.

sooooo Dan, how's that eh-hem, $tradivarius comin' along?!      nudge  nudge

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DanSavage
Posted 2015-08-20 2:47 PM (#514536 - in reply to #514534)
Subject: Re: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1949

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Thanks, Arumako.

Jeffrey,

I'll be starting on my retirement 'fund$' just as soon as I finish Jay's guitar. LOL!

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DanSavage
Posted 2015-08-22 6:12 PM (#514635 - in reply to #494306)
Subject: RE: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1949

Location: Lake Forest, CA

I finished designing the label going inside.

Here's the artwork. The black, is well, black. The gold is gold foil.

The typeface is Arabian Normal, which is the same typeface used by Ovation.

And, here's the finished label inside the guitar.

Here's what it'll look like through the sound hole.

Of course, now Jay needs to make a couple of decisions before I glue it into place.

1) Is this where you want it?

If not, let me know where you'd like to see it.

2) The existing Balladeer label is crooked, meaning it wasn't square when it was stuck down.

I can do one of two things: make the new label match the crookedness of the existing label or I can stick the new label down so it's square, which will highlight the crookedness of the existing label.

My inclination is to stick it down so it's even with the existing label. Otherwise it will look funny, and I don't mean in a humorous way.





Edited by DanSavage 2015-08-22 6:13 PM
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jay
Posted 2015-08-22 6:39 PM (#514636 - in reply to #514635)
Subject: RE: 1967 Balladeer Rebuild...



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1224

Location: Texas

Hey Dan, 

I think that looks excellent. Thank you for doing that. Very classy!

Easy call. Whomever stuck that label down in 67, needs to remain that guy. We're not going to take that away from him.  

"stick it down so it's even with the existing label"

 

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