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Need advice on a 1117-4 Project

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DanSavage
Posted 2014-07-02 2:55 PM (#489290 - in reply to #489288)
Subject: Re: Need advice on a 1117-4 Project



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA

SOBeach - 2014-07-02 12:41 PM

Haven't ever tried that technique before, assemble pieces dry then apply adhesive around the edges, will have to check it out.

I'd be concerned tho the wicking action might not travel far enough inward away from the edges to insure full coverage to the whole break. ??  No doubt each situation is different: the size and severity of the break, the wood grain (or other material surface texture), and the viscosity of the adhesive.  Another neat trick to experiment with! 

 

Oh yeah.  If you're not careful,  Hobby-grade CA glues in thin and medium viscosities, such as Thin Zap and Zap-A-Gap, will wick all the way from one side of the wood and dribble out the other, especially if you hold the pieces so the joint is vertical and you allow gravity to pull the glue down through the joint.

In fact, the only way to keep that from happening is to hold the piece so the joint remains somewhat horizontal. Otherwise, the glue will simply flow out the other side and downward along the path of least resistence, just like water. 

For very tight-fitting joints, thin CA works best. For looser joints, medium CA does the trick.

The only real problem with wicking CA into a wide glue joint is assuring even coverage.

 

 

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DanSavage
Posted 2014-07-02 3:46 PM (#489291 - in reply to #489185)
Subject: Re: Need advice on a 1117-4 Project



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA
I should add that when I want to make a glue joint across a wide surface using CA and assure myself of even coverage, like I did when I glued my bridge clamping caul together using two pieces of 1/4" plywood, I'll run a bead of medium CA on one piece, then spray the other piece with kicker and join them together.

The CA will spread out enough to cover the entire surface before the kicker starts the curing process, which occurs just a few seconds after joining the two pieces together.

Edited by DanSavage 2014-07-02 3:47 PM
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arumako
Posted 2014-07-04 5:56 PM (#489343 - in reply to #489185)
Subject: Re: Need advice on a 1117-4 Project



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 1018

Location: Yokohama, Japan
Thanks again DanSavage. That is so interesting. I never knew that CA had such diverse properties. I think I'll have to experiment with that before I start my project. By the way, for a situation like my 1117-4 bridge, since I need a little bit of time to get the C clamps in position, wouldn't the kicker get the curing process started too quickly? Oh yes, and one more question if I may...It sounds like it would be best to glue the bridge back into place without removing the bridge completely. That means my working space under the bridge is going to be limited. With that in mind,

1). Cleaning and prepping the area to be glued: will blowing the area with compressed air be sufficient, or should I use some kind of alcohol based cleaner? The area underneath the bridge is not "dirty," but I'm afraid there could be some dust and debris underneath, and it sounds like CA's cohesion could be compromised if it is not cleaned thoroughly.

2). Since my gluing space is limited, I'm guessing I apply the glue as best I can and let it "wick" down to the areas I can't quite reach? I can't imagine applying CA with a brush or some such contraption. The CA would make the brush adhere to the gluing surface wouldn't it?

Edited by arumako 2014-07-04 5:57 PM
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DanSavage
Posted 2014-07-05 10:11 AM (#489353 - in reply to #489185)
Subject: RE: Need advice on a 1117-4 Project



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA

For your bridge, I would not use kicker to glue the bridge in the manner I described. I was just speaking generally about gluing two pieces of wood together.

Here's how I would attack gluing the bridge back down. Buy thin and medium CA. Also buy some sort of tips that will allow you to reach deeper into the glue joint than, just the bottle itself. If the glue bottles already have long tips, then you won't need to buy any. (See: http://www2.gpmd.com/image/p/paar3000.jpg)

Lay the guitar flat on its back. Use something shim it to keep it from wanting to roll around.

Spread the bridge apart from the top and use sandpaper on the finish to give the glue some tooth.

Squeeze a bead of glue around the periphery, about a 1/4" in from the outside edge. Squeeze another wavy bead that connects the outer bead to itself. The idea is that you want the glue to spread itself out and cover as much area as possible when you push the bridge joint back together. You may be applying glue on top of the finish and to the top wood.

Push the bridge joint back together and clamp it. Wipe off any excess glue that squeezed out of the cracks. Let this sit for 24 hours so the glue can dry. If you want to speed up the drying process you can spray on kicker after the joint is assembled. This will cure the edges of the glue. As the glue cures it will start the catalyzation process on the inner parts of the glue.

Above all, make sure that all the wood joints are back in their original orientation to each other before the glue starts to cure because once the curing process begins, there's no going back without breaking wood.

1) Blowing out dust is sufficient. Unlike most other glues CA doesn't require clean, dry surfaces. I've used it on dirty, oily model airplanes that needed field repairs and it worked fine.

2) If you are able to get tips like the ones I pointed to above, you should be able to get the glue into most of the joint.

At this point, your best bet is to get some glue and some scrap wood to experiment with. That will help you decide the best way to glue the bridge back down. It might take applying medium glue under the bridge, squeezing it together, then applying thin CA along the edge to wick into where you couldn't reach with the medium.

Thin and medium both have the same strength when cured. The only difference between the two is their viscosity and their ability to wick and fill gaps.

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arumako
Posted 2014-07-05 1:13 PM (#489354 - in reply to #489185)
Subject: Re: Need advice on a 1117-4 Project



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 1018

Location: Yokohama, Japan
Thanks for your patient, and gracious responses, DanSavage (...and everybody who commented on this post)! You must be a teacher or something... Everything seems really clear! I can practically visualize and hear the 1117-4 back in action! I just need to get plenty of practice working with the glue and execute several trial runs, and I should be set. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
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arumako
Posted 2014-07-21 9:17 AM (#489777 - in reply to #489185)
Subject: RE: Need advice on a 1117-4 Project



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 1018

Location: Yokohama, Japan
Oops, messed up again...sorry!

Edited by arumako 2014-07-21 9:29 AM
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