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Adamas & Adamas II Differnces

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danomyte
Posted 2014-06-06 9:26 AM (#487527)
Subject: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
January 2014
Posts: 401

Location: Taxed To Death State
Does any one have a preference on these 2 models? Is the Adamas II 1681 better than the standard Adamas 1687?
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Standingovation
Posted 2014-06-06 12:50 PM (#487534 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 5879

Location: Phoenix AZ
In the early days there were some notable differences between the two, beyond cosmetics. No Adamas since can match the sound of the early 1687, or espeically the pre-production slotheads. But over the years I think the 1687 and 1681 largely converged soncially and the differences are more or less cosmetic and personal preference. That said, I would ALWAYS choose for the 1687 over the 1681 ... just 'cuz.
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danomyte
Posted 2014-06-06 2:58 PM (#487537 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
January 2014
Posts: 401

Location: Taxed To Death State
The chances of me ever getting my hands on an early 1687 is probably slim to none so I'll have to take your word on this one. The bridge on the 1681 is quite plain in comparison to the 1687. I'd take either if I found one I suppose.
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Standingovation
Posted 2014-06-07 6:54 AM (#487556 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 5879

Location: Phoenix AZ
The 2005 reissues are also pretty darn nice. As close to the early originals as you get get. Great, great guitars.
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Damon67
Posted 2014-06-07 1:44 PM (#487563 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6988

Location: Jet City
the 1581 reissue is my #1

Dave, are you still selling this relatively unplayed one? http://www.ovationfanclub.com/megabbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=37...
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Standingovation
Posted 2014-06-07 3:32 PM (#487566 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 5879

Location: Phoenix AZ
Not "relatively unplayed" ... it's never even been TUNED !!! It's on ebay right now.
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danomyte
Posted 2014-07-04 5:55 AM (#489334 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
January 2014
Posts: 401

Location: Taxed To Death State
Does anyone know the approximate year they stopped using reject 1687 tops on the II's?
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Standingovation
Posted 2014-07-04 3:26 PM (#489340 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 5879

Location: Phoenix AZ
Never heard that AII tops were rejected AI tops. I wonder on what grounds they would "reject" them. The AII far outsold the AI, so that's a heck of a lot of rejected tops !!!
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2014-07-04 3:38 PM (#489341 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15289

Location: SoCal
Beal made the statement about the tops 5 or 6 years ago.
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Standingovation
Posted 2014-07-04 4:47 PM (#489342 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 5879

Location: Phoenix AZ
Do you know how they tested and rejected them?
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2014-07-04 6:10 PM (#489344 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15289

Location: SoCal
No, but knowing Beal, it probably involved the use of virgins.......
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2014-07-05 3:07 PM (#489358 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10382

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR

Adamas & Adamas II Differnce

Broccoli!

somebody had to say it

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Sleepy Eyes McGee
Posted 2014-07-10 8:35 AM (#489521 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces


Joined:
June 2005
Posts: 231

Location: N.J.
Well the II is one more than the I isnt it?? So it should be double the I .. which would be alot of guitar if it doubles the I..
Unless you go by a competition... then the II would be the first loser... I would always go for a I over a II. To me, its just not an Adamas without the carvings.
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SillyLittleBoy
Posted 2014-07-13 11:00 PM (#489618 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
July 2013
Posts: 98

Location: Des Moines, Iowa
I'm glad someone opened up this can of worms (so to speak), since I'm in the long and slow hunt for my first Adamas guitar and I'm a bit overwhelmed by all the different models, features, tops, and flares (fancy woodwork). Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, but from what I've seen the most notable difference between the I's and the II's is the fancy woodwork/flares. The I's are more like a Custom Elite and the II's are like a regular Elite. I know the original slot-heads are the prized Adamas guitars, but I doubt that my first one will be one of those beauties.

I'm glad someone mentioned the 2005 re-issues, because I've seen some of those and at first I thought they were one of the original beauties. So, I take it the only difference between a 2005 re-issue and the originals is the age of them?

Now is there two different types of man-made tops? Is there a graphite-carbon and then a carbon-fiber or are those both the same?

I see that there are some wooden-topped Adamas guitars. Do they still use the AST (Adamas suspended top)? Without that feature there wouldn't be much difference between them and an Elite.

Do all the Adamas' use the Quintad bracing? What about bowl size? Are most Adamas' deep bowls?

Okay... I know I've asked a ton of questions, but as I mentioned - I'm in a long and slow hunt, cause I want to make my first Adamas one that at least has that unique Adamas sound, which I still yet need to experience for myself. Unfortunately there's not an Adamas dealer anywhere real close to where I am, at least none that I've found as of yet.

Thanks in advance for answering, cause after all, I'm just a...
SillyLittleBoy

P.S. I've seen some Adamas guitars advertised as being "Made in the USA." I thought ALL Adamas guitars were made in the USA, so isn't that like saying my dollar bill was minted in the USA?
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2014-07-13 11:42 PM (#489619 - in reply to #489618)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10382

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
SillyLittleBoy - 2014-07-13 9:00 PM

Do all the Adamas' use the Quintad bracing? What about bowl size? Are most Adamas' deep bowls?

I believe so... but I could be mistaken.
I think that the Quintad bracing was designed for the Adamas and then used in the Elites later.


P.S. I've seen some Adamas guitars advertised as being "Made in the USA." I thought ALL Adamas guitars were made in the USA, so isn't that like saying my dollar bill was minted in the USA?

All Adamas are made in the USA. But when advertising it might be nice to state that because not everybody knows.
You would think that all Martins were made in the USA until you read the fine print.

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DetlefMichel
Posted 2014-07-14 12:15 PM (#489623 - in reply to #489619)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 581

Location: Muenster/Germany
I have an old AdamasI 1688 12string. Deep bowl, very heavy guitar, but fills the room with music. Clear and loud over the whole playable range. It´s a diva, must not be played with full power, but with a lot of feeling and precision. It´s hard to sing louder if you play. I consider to get buried with it some day.
I have a newer Adamas I 2087. Extreme lightweight guitar, very easy to handle (deep contour body). The best allround guitar, even for slide BLues, Django-like Jazz-strumming, Dadi-like picking.. a guitar that might be suitable for the "one guitar"-player.I call this my "close-combat"-guitar, take this everywhere.
I had an old Adamas 1687, deep bowl. Heavy, clear, loud and full like the 1688. Really uncredible.I regret to have sold it one day, was not the best of my decisions.And I loved the simple to handle but very good sounding 2-button FET-electronics.
All these have slightly deeper bowls because of the special top mountig, and the "Adamas" bracing, a logical consequence of the offset-soundholes. You can use the advantages of a fan brace and simultaneously you can improve the firmness of the top over the whole length. The "quintad" bracing based on the same principle, but especially created for wood-top-guitars, the Elite or the Adamas WT.
From my experience these carbon-top Adamii guitars must be played in a special way. These guitar tops react very early to string movements, have a maximum at a certain power of attack but unlike "normal" guitars they have a limit, beyond this the sound is getting worse, like an overmodulation (it´s hard for me to explain because I´m German, english is not my mother-language). You have phantastic sound and power control if you play with "medium" touch. If you are accustomed to it, it´s fine. (If I play my Martin harder and harder it gets louder and louder and that´s it...)
I have an Adamas wood-top.Deep bowl. A very special guitar with not the same "punch"of the carbon-top models but with a very smooth and balanced sound and a greater range of dynamics. Appears not to be so loud as the AdamasI, but can clearly be heard from quite a distance, for me the "intimate theater" guitar, very very lovely.
I have a wood-top Elite 1758ltd. Deep bowl. From the idea it is an Adamas with wood-top, but with a standard Ovation bridge.Quintad bracing. Even if there are many similarities to the WT Adamas, this guitar sounds quite different.Not much basses but bright and subtle and so to say the filigree version of the Adamas. This guitar is so easy to play, you won´t believe it. I gladly sold my (wonderful!) Elite 1718 when I got this one. A guitar with the feel like a feather´s touch.
I must say that I never had an Adamas II in hands. Maybe some of the other Ovation addicts here have the opportunity to really compare these versions. If you get the chance to buy one of the old 1687(or why not 1688), if it´s not completely run down, buy it.
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FlySig
Posted 2014-07-14 8:00 PM (#489644 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 3849

Location: Utah
Each model and indeed each guitar will be slightly different, and thus it is not easy to give descriptions which will make sense to somebody else.

There are two versions of the carbon fiber top. One is the SMT and the other is the woven. (I hope I got that right!) The SMT is a straight fiber rather than a woven fiber. There is a difference in sound between the two, but in addition the other factors such as bowl depth, thickness of finish, and other structural issues will have an effect.

The textured top in either Adamas or Ovation is considered the most transparent sound. A glossy finish will dampen the top more than the textured top. A plain paint (such as a solid color or a burst but not glossed) will be in between.

Adamas came in all different versions of bowl depth, but I believe the shallow bowls were primarily custom ordered. The 1597 is an example of the mid bowl SMT topped guitar. It does not have quite the depth in sound as the ADI or ADII which are deep bowl.

I have a 2080, the original version not the more recent suspension ring 2080SR version. It has loads of depth! The suspension ring is nice, and if the factory were staying open I had intended to order a custom A with the suspension ring. But, I would say the suspension ring is icing on the cake and would not turn away from a non-suspension ring Adamas. The 2080 is an "LX" era guitar with the new lightweight deep contour bowl. It does have a heavier walnut neck than the regular LX Ovation guitars but it is a fair description to say the 2080 represents the modern era, whereas the ADI and ADII represent the 1980 era design concepts.

The wood top Adamas is the ultimate incarnation of an Ovation. Without the carbon fiber top it isn't the same as any Adamas, but the WT has all of the precision workmanship and some of the fine points of an Adamas such as the suspension ring. Of all the Ovations I've played I would rank the WT as the best Ovation, followed by the 2007 Collector's edition. Top of the line electronics, very fine build quality, deep tone with plenty of zing in the highs, recently made so it has a long life ahead. If you want an Adamas, the WT is not one I would recommend because tonally it is different with the WT than any carbon fiber top Adamas. But if you want the ultimate wood topped O/A then the wood top Adamas is the one to get.

I'll agree with Detlef above who mentioned the subtlety and responsiveness of the Adamas carbon fiber top. My 2080 responds to touch very much more than the wood topped guitars. Someone with good right hand technique could coax a lot more out of an Adamas than a wood topped Ovation. My 2080 has no difficulty when driven really hard, either. And the Adamas can be tuned down low and really be a boomer! The top doesn't seem to need as much string tension on it as a wood top in order to project.
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Damon67
Posted 2014-07-14 11:54 PM (#489653 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6988

Location: Jet City
Y'all are forgetting there's something other than carbon fiber in the soundboard, there's a core of wood.

It's like a wand in Harry F'n Potter.

I think the "W" Adamas models including the ME-12 have a '2 twill' textured top with a Poplar core and smooth top

The 2080 and 1680NWT has a '2 twill' textured top with a Plywood (not sure what kind) core and natural texture top (not smooth)

A typical Adamas 1, 2, 'UTE', '08C, etc has a 'uni-directional' textured top with a Birch core... natural textured top (but there was the 1598, same specs with a smoothed out top)

And I'm sure there are plenty others



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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2014-07-15 1:12 AM (#489656 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10382

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Here ya' go Damon.

That came from http://www.ovationtribute.com/Catalogues/2003_Adamas_US_Price_List_...

So I am guessing that my W597T has poplar inside... maybe.
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nerdydave
Posted 2014-08-24 10:38 PM (#492605 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces


Joined:
August 2011
Posts: 725

Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah
So there are actually 4 different carbon fibre tops? They would be: unidirectional smooth, unidirectional textured, crosswoven smooth, and crosswoven textured. Am I correct on this?? Thanks as always OMA.
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TAFKAR
Posted 2014-08-24 11:32 PM (#492606 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 2971

Location: Sydney, Australia
Actually there's more than that, but you've got the basic idea. They also had some with different wood and CF thickness and, in the 1680, the inner wood is a ply. I think in some they varied the angle of the grain away from the standard angle (which I can't remember)
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SillyLittleBoy
Posted 2014-08-26 4:52 PM (#492650 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
July 2013
Posts: 98

Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Wow... I'm glad this string kept going, because I wasn't aware of so many nuances involving the Adamas with the fiber tops. I was hoping to jump into an Adamas soon and I think I may have found one that looks to be a decent buy AND it's from a seller I purchased a guitar from before and I was very happy with that guitar and purchase (Elite 1868).

The Adamas I'm looking at is a W597 from 1999 in EXCELLENT shape for $865. I thought this might be a good entry-level Adamas guitar and price, since I'm not quite ready for the $2,000 - $10,000 price tag just yet. If I'm reading everything correctly this would be the cross-weave carbpm fiber sound board. Since the other one shown above in the excerpt from the catalog mentions "uni-directional," I'm guessing that maybe the cross-weave is more omni-directional?

I do play plenty of rhythm, but also do a little bit of finger style of sorts. I'm better that any of the fiber topped Adamas guitars sound pretty good and as stated above, it's all about personal preferences. Since the W597 does have a mid-depth bowl, I'm betting it's got a pretty decent and full sound.

Any thoughts from the group regarding this being maybe a good entry-level Adamas and price for a silly little boy like myself?

Thanks in advance...
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TAFKAR
Posted 2014-08-26 6:36 PM (#492651 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 2971

Location: Sydney, Australia
I had a W597, it's a good entry level Adamas, but was only slightly better than my previous A-braced Legend (1117). I sold the W597 to buy the '08 Collectors Adamas, and that was a big step up. I doubt you'd find a bad Adamas anywhere, and you'd be lucky to find a better guitar for $865.
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SillyLittleBoy
Posted 2014-08-27 1:35 AM (#492656 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
July 2013
Posts: 98

Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Thanks Tafkar for the advice, but I had hoped this W597 would be more than "slightly better than a Legend 1117, since I've got the electric version of that Legend (1617) though I'm not sure if it has the A bracing OR whether that would matter. My 1617 was made in 1979 an does have a very full sound at all frequencies. I use it when I want to rock out acoustically, but my Elite (1868) is my favorite thus far. That Elite plays like... "butter" with the lightest action of any guitar I've ever picked up. It's got a much fuller sound than my other SSB, an 1867 Legend (Oh... and all of these are USA MADE).

The sad part for me is that I can't find an Adamas anywhere within a 130 mile radius or more, so I can't stop in anywhere and sit down for a few minutes and see how it truly sounds and feels to me.

After all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder (or ear), but it's an Adamas and it's got the revolutionary carbon fiber top and patented sound board suspension system (can't recall the exact name). It has to be a step up from my Elite and any noticeable improvement over that guitar is going to be AWEESOME!

But what do I know, I'm just a...
SillyLittleBoy
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mnboy
Posted 2014-08-27 7:41 AM (#493663 - in reply to #487527)
Subject: Re: Adamas & Adamas II Differnces



Joined:
January 2014
Posts: 28

Location: Northern Minnesota
SillyLittleBoy, I am north of you in Northern MN and had the same problem you did. This is not going to answer your question of which is better, the Adamas I or II, but for years (34) I played my trusty Custom Legend 1658 12 string and bought the sister 1719 6 string about three years later. I play mostly my 12 string for church (about 300+ people per Mass) -- and all guitar, no piano. Last year I bought the Adamas 1598-MERB 12 string 2001 model off Ebay. It was in mint condition, wasn't played much, (I had to clean it up, new strings, battery, and adjust the neck). I just wanted you to know that the sound from the Adamas, for me, is stronger than my Custom Legend 12, although, I feel the Adamas has more bass sound. All my guitars are deep bowl and the actions are about the same, although, the neck on the Adamas seems thicker (not wider) than my Custom Legends. I, too, was NOT able to play the Adamas before purchase since the closest dealer was in Chicago -- that actually had one to play. I really loved my Custom Legends but this Adamas is another beautifully crafted, bright sounding, great action guitar. Sorry, I didn't answer your I or II question, but coming from years on a 1980 guitar to a 2001, I thought I could add some insight.. good luck!
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