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1619-4 Rebuild...

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marenostrum
Posted 2014-06-28 11:21 AM (#489157 - in reply to #486472)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
August 2007
Posts: 1008

Location: Tuscany, Italy
It is really very beautiful !!!
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DanSavage
Posted 2014-06-28 8:06 PM (#489169 - in reply to #489156)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Mark in Boise - 2014-06-28 9:16 AM

Wow, this is looking very professional! Banjo's comment reminded me of one of my very meager successes at guitar repairs. I bought my Folklore as the only bidder off ebay, which should say something. The prior owner had tried to string it with nylon's and gave up. When I put steel strings on it, it had a wicked buzz, which turned out to be a broken brace right under the bridge. I was surprised that the hole for the pickup wire went right through the brace, which led to the broken brace. The pieces were still hanging there, so I just glued them back together with carpenter's glue. Years later, it's still sounding fantastic.


Thanks!

I like Folklore guitars. I'll probably buy one some day.

Did the factory drill a hole through the brace or was it done by someone adding electronics to a non-amplified guitar?

I bought a bare 2078-TX off eBay that was a factory reject. I bought all the missing pieces and discovered it, too, had a couple of loose braces that was causing the a dead low-E and A string. Once I glued the braces down, it fixed the dead-sounding strings, but still sounded tight, with very little sustain. I put my PrimeVibe on it for a week, and it made a tremendous difference.

In fact, it was this guitar that made me decide I wanted to put X-braces on this 1619 instead of building new A-braces. The A-braces sound okay, but I like the sound of X-braces better.
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Mark in Boise
Posted 2014-06-28 11:44 PM (#489173 - in reply to #486472)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...


Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12750

Location: Boise, Idaho
The factory must have drilled the hole through the brace, because it has the factory preamp. I was really surprised that it was built that way.
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DanSavage
Posted 2014-06-29 7:22 PM (#489196 - in reply to #486472)
Subject: RE: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Whoa! I wonder if all Folklore guitars have a hole in the brace? Original X-brace like the one below, right?

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Mark in Boise
Posted 2014-06-29 8:27 PM (#489197 - in reply to #486472)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...


Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12750

Location: Boise, Idaho
It looks like the X brace from what I could see, but I couldn't see the little piece in the middle of the X that's in your pic.
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DanSavage
Posted 2014-06-30 1:32 AM (#489200 - in reply to #489197)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Mark in Boise - 2014-06-29 6:27 PM

It looks like the X brace from what I could see, but I couldn't see the little piece in the middle of the X that's in your pic.

Does it look like this bracing pattern? Note that there is no x-reinforcement and the ends of the x-braces aren't scalloped.

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arumako
Posted 2014-06-30 5:59 AM (#489202 - in reply to #486472)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 1018

Location: Yokohama, Japan
WOW! I said it before. I must say it again, "This is just so incredibly inspiring!" Thoroughly enjoying following your progress! Thanks!
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Mark in Boise
Posted 2014-06-30 9:59 AM (#489207 - in reply to #489200)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...


Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12750

Location: Boise, Idaho
DanSavage - 2014-06-30 12:32 AM

Mark in Boise - 2014-06-29 6:27 PM

It looks like the X brace from what I could see, but I couldn't see the little piece in the middle of the X that's in your pic.

Does it look like this bracing pattern? Note that there is no x-reinforcement and the ends of the x-braces aren't scalloped.


Yes, that's it. Mine was made in 1977. I hadn't played it in a long time, so it was a nice excuse to check the bracing. I just love the sound.
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DanSavage
Posted 2014-06-30 11:52 AM (#489212 - in reply to #489202)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA
arumako - 2014-06-30 3:59 AM

WOW! I said it before. I must say it again, "This is just so incredibly inspiring!" Thoroughly enjoying following your progress! Thanks!


Thanks for the kind words and you're welcome

Edited by DanSavage 2014-06-30 11:52 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2014-06-30 11:54 AM (#489213 - in reply to #489207)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Mark in Boise - 2014-06-30 7:59 AM
Yes, that's it. Mine was made in 1977. I hadn't played it in a long time, so it was a nice excuse to check the bracing. I just love the sound.

I can see how the simple brace pattern would make for a very responsive-sounding guitar. There's nothing there to impede the vibration of the top wood.

 

 

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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2014-06-30 12:48 PM (#489215 - in reply to #489213)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1553

Location: Indiana
Excellent work Dan.
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seesquare
Posted 2014-06-30 2:14 PM (#489219 - in reply to #489215)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3598

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
"I can see how the simple brace pattern would make for a very responsive-sounding guitar. There's nothing there to impede the vibration of the top wood."
Yeah, the 1st time i put a mirror inside my old Folklore, my thoughts were, "Seriously? That's all there is? Amazing!" And, with steel string, at concert pitch, no less.
BTW, Dan- you realize you're setting a daunting precedent here, right?
Carry On!
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DanSavage
Posted 2014-07-01 12:19 PM (#489250 - in reply to #489215)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Jonmark Stone - 2014-06-30 10:48 AM

Excellent work Dan.


Thanks, Jonmark.
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DanSavage
Posted 2014-07-01 12:24 PM (#489251 - in reply to #489219)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA
seesquare - 2014-06-30 12:14 PM
Yeah, the 1st time i put a mirror inside my old Folklore, my thoughts were, "Seriously? That's all there is? Amazing!" And, with steel string, at concert pitch, no less.
BTW, Dan- you realize you're setting a daunting precedent here, right?
Carry On!


The real purpose behind braces is to prevent the top from warping under the load of the strings and not impede vibration. In this respect, less is more and they don't get any more spartan than the original Ovation x-braces, do they?

Ha ha! Looks are one thing. Sound is another.
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DanSavage
Posted 2014-07-09 10:24 PM (#489514 - in reply to #486472)
Subject: RE: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Just a quick update.

I put together my little spray booth using a voting booth I acquired a few years ago. I added a visqueen curtain to keep the overspray under control.

I taped down some balsa to keep the guitar from rolling around while it's being sprayed.

The nitrate dope has been applied and leveled. I'm ready to start applying the butyrate finish coats.

I applied the first couple of coats of butyrate tonight. I'll let that dry for a day or so to fully harden, then wet sand it with 320-grit and apply a couple more coats.

At that point I'll decide whether to go through another cycle of sanding/painting or to start the finish sanding process working up from 600-grit, to 1200-grit and 2000-grit and final polish.

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MWoody
Posted 2014-07-09 11:31 PM (#489515 - in reply to #486472)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13983

Location: Upper Left USA
Very nice!
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DanSavage
Posted 2014-07-10 9:27 AM (#489522 - in reply to #486472)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Thanks!

It's getting there, slowly but surely.
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DanSavage
Posted 2014-07-10 9:27 AM (#489523 - in reply to #486472)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA
ASP trasnport error caused double-post.

Edited by DanSavage 2014-07-10 9:29 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2014-08-22 9:50 AM (#492515 - in reply to #486472)
Subject: RE: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Well, it's been over a month since my last post.

It took longer than I expected to spray the dope. I had planned to let it harden for a full two weeks. While the dope was hardening, I refurbished/rewired a pedal box project for a friend. That project ended up taking three weeks, so the dope hardened an extra week.

Here's what the finish looks like after cutting and polishing. Except for being a lot more shiny, it's not too different from the pics of the top with base shellac finish, but that was the plan. I knew the dope was, for the most part, optically clear, which is why I chose it.

What I didn't expect was the weird clouding in certain spots. I did my best to repair these areas, but in the end there wasn't too much I could do except sand the finish down to bare wood and start over. Ther was no way was I going to do that. I don't even know how it's going to sound with the new bracing pattern I used.

In the end I decided this was a learning experience and have decided to avoid using lacquer in the future. First, because it's a pretty tedius process having to spray on so many thin coats and secondly because if the lacquer happens to seep through the base shellac, the solvents in the lacquer melt plastic, as what happened with the bottom binding around the lower bout.

On to removing the bridge masking. First step is to remove the build-up of sanding dust and lacquer from the alignment holes.

Drop the bridge into place, then using a sharp #11 Xacto knife, score the finish around the bridge to ensure a clean separation line.

Peel the tape off, leaving the clean top wood ready for gluing the bridge using hide glue.

Right now I'm staining and sealing the bridge so it matches the TRC. Once that's done I'll glue it down.



Edited by DanSavage 2014-08-22 9:53 AM
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marenostrum
Posted 2014-08-22 10:24 AM (#492521 - in reply to #486472)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
August 2007
Posts: 1008

Location: Tuscany, Italy
I cannot see the pics......I wonder if it is me or a system error......
It seems all pics of the post have been deleted....
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jay
Posted 2014-08-22 11:07 AM (#492522 - in reply to #492521)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1249

Location: Texas

"It seems all pics of the post have been deleted"

Thats what I thought too at the very beginning, but they were just slow to load

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DanSavage
Posted 2014-08-22 11:09 AM (#492523 - in reply to #486472)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2303

Location: Lake Forest, CA
I just checked from my work computer and the pics are showing up.

I noticed that the server hosting the pics was slow to respond when I was writing the post, so that's probably the problem.

If you're on a Windows machine, press Ctrl-F5 and that will force a reload from the server.
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MWoody
Posted 2014-08-22 11:23 AM (#492526 - in reply to #486472)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13983

Location: Upper Left USA

Astounding! I hope you realize how encouraging your posts are and what hobby shop carnage will ensue by those of us with a lot less patience and skill. It must be time to make some sawdust fly!



Edited by MWoody 2014-08-22 11:24 AM
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jay
Posted 2014-08-22 11:27 AM (#492527 - in reply to #492526)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1249

Location: Texas

Mike, 

My thoughts exactly. John & Co. should be getting a lot of "clean up" jobs from those of us that are thinking "hell, piece of cake"

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marenostrum
Posted 2014-08-22 12:56 PM (#492531 - in reply to #486472)
Subject: Re: 1619-4 Rebuild...



Joined:
August 2007
Posts: 1008

Location: Tuscany, Italy
All is ok now......nice job Dan. Thanks for all the information.
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