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Location: GA USA | I had an interesting experience the other night at an acoustic jam. Some of us were taking turns onstage and the others were "sitting in" by playing along from wherever they were sitting. Some friends were playing "The Thrill Is Gone" in key of Bm. The only harmonica I had on me was a G harp so I started to blow gently, knowing it wasn't the correct key. They saw me and pulled me up on stage to play some leads.
I've been working the math in my head all since Saturday and can't see any way that my G harp was able to play The Thrill Is Gone in Bm. It sounded pretty good though. One website used that song as an example of playing a C harp in Bm using the 6th position, something I don't claim to understand, but I may try it. The standard way to play Bm seems to be using an A harp in 3rd position (again, 1st & 2nd are all I've considered in the past). But nobody lists G harp as an option. I wish I'd had time to work through this before I jumped up on stage.
Anyways, I wondered if you had any insight. I did like how the 1 hole blow worked on the turnaround. It seems the song skips to key of G for that one instant.
Thanks
Jas
Edited by Captain Lovehandles 2014-01-07 10:54 AM
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Location: Orlando, FL | Jas, you are just THAT GOOD! |
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Location: GA USA | That's what I figured it was. I'm gonna try it with C and A harps as well. We'll get to the bottom of it. |
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Location: Suisun City, Ca | Would really like to hear it. YT? |
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Location: GA USA | I'm not aware of any video. |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | "Bm" is the relative minor of "D." When I play cross harp for Neil Young's acoustic version of "Cinnamon Girl" (which is in "D" ), I use a "G" harp. Don't quote me on this (because I'm far from an expert) but I think you count up two steps from the guitar key to get the "blues harp" key (is it 2nd or 3rd position?). So it would be D - E - F - G. I always convert relative minors to their major key; e.g., Am to C, Bm to D, etc. I don't know if that helps or just muddies the water! 
BTW - I'm a rudimentary harp player. To me, there are three styles of harp playing - straight harp; cross harp; and "close enough."
Edited by rick endres 2014-01-07 1:58 PM
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | The best way to work out cross harp key is use the guitar as your guide. Whatever the key of the song is, the cross key is the same fret on the next string up. eg; E (open 6th string) cross key is A (open 5th string) F (1st fret, 6th string) cross key is Bb (1st fret, 5th string, D is G, C is F etc, etc |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | and as Rick says, Bm is the relative minor of D, which makes G the right cross key. I'm not into playing harp in minor keys, personally.
Edited by muzzlitebeer 2014-01-08 9:53 AM
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | muzza - 2014-01-08 9:50 AM
The best way to work out cross harp key is use the guitar as your guide. Whatever the key of the song is, the cross key is the same fret on the next string up. eg; E (open 6th string) cross key is A (open 5th string) F (1st fret, 6th string) cross key is Bb (1st fret, 5th string, D is G, C is F etc, etc
Wow! How simple! This is even easier than the method I learned, even though we both get to the same place. Thanks, Muzza - very helpful!  |
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Location: Vancouver Island, BC | In a 1-4-5 blues progression, the x-harp key is 4. so blues in A is played on a D x-harp.
To play in a minor key, you step down one from the minor key.
The house of the rising sun played in Am needs a G harp.
Hotel California played in Bm takes an A harp.
Just don't confuse the issue with theory!
I am still trying to find a harp that works on Old Man (not OMA) by Neil Young.
This stuff is fun.
Hovard |
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Location: Flahdaw | Hmmm....I play my A harp with blues in E? (I must be tone deaf...) |
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Location: GA USA | Always convert relative minors to the major, check. Thanks, guys. That makes such perfect sense that I completely overlooked it. |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | darkbarguitar - 2014-01-08 4:37 PM
Hmmm....I play my A harp with blues in E? (I must be tone deaf...)
No - you're right on the money, Bob. Using the two step method, a song in the key of E in guitar WOULD use an A harp - E-f-g-A. It's even easier to just use Muzza’s method of checking the note on the fret (or open string) the next string up. In this case, your 6th string (E) is open, and the next open string up is (surprise!) A.
There are several different positions for playing cross-key harp, any of which will work with harps in different keys, most of which are too advanced for me - or are just too hard to play. I just use two basic kindergarten methods: “two-step blues” to play cross harp, or straight harp when I don't need a blues key. For example: I play straight harp on Neil’s “Heart of Gold.” That song’s in Em (relative minor of G), so I use a G harp. “Cinnamon Girl” is in double dropped D on guitar; I play (ah-ha-ha-ha!) “blues harp” on that one, so I’d use the two-step rule and use a G harp for blues (D-e-f-G). BTW – you don’t count sharps or flats when using the two-step rule. Again, Muzza's method is easier, and I'm adopting it going forward.
“Old Man” by Neil – I’d use a D harmonica for straight harp, or a G for blues.
One song I can’t figure out is Tom Petty’s “Mary Jane’s Last Dance.” I mean, I figured out how to play it; I just don’t know WHY it works. The song is in Am (relative major is C). If you do straight harp, you’d use a C harmonica; cross harp SHOULD be an F.
But for whatever reason, a G harp works just fine, and it’s really easy to play. That’s a mystery to me. Maybe one of you guys who REALLY understands music could help me out on that one.
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Edited by rick endres 2014-01-09 7:55 AM
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Location: Suisun City, Ca | Really cool thread! This is why OFC is the best.
So, I love the harmonica, would I need to buy twelve of them to cover everything? |
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Location: Vancouver Island, BC | google it
x-harp for E is A
you may not be playing x-harp.....
also check out slant-harp |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | AstroDan - 2014-01-09 2:41 PM
Really cool thread! This is why OFC is the best.
So, I love the harmonica, would I need to buy twelve of them to cover everything?
I would say I use G for 80% of my harp songs. D would be the second most used; I also carry a C, A, and E, but don't use them as much. It depends on what harmonica songs you play. |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | Hovard Heimdal - 2014-01-09 2:45 PM
google it
x-harp for E is A
you may not be playing x-harp.....
also check out slant-harp
If x-harp means cross harp, I think that's what we said - A would be cross harp for a song in E.
Don't think I've ever heard of slant harp. You're more advanced than I am; I'm lucky I can play what I DO play. |
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Location: Vancouver Island, BC | Rick
Your G harp is the slant harp for A-minor
Try The house of the rising sun in A minor. It starts with a #4 draw (the 4th hole) on your G harp. You don't draw as much as in X-harp, and it is easier to find your way around the harp.
It opened up a new door for me when I learned it (or a can of worms for my neighbours).
So your G harp is versatile: sraight harp in G, X-harp in D and slant-harp in Aminor. Try Hotel California as well. You'll figure it out.
I use 6 harps incl Bflat, but not E. B flat is the X-harp for F. All depends on where your voice fits in.
Have fun!
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | I only carry 4 harps with me to jams - A, D, C and G that pretty much covers most stuff. (and the G doesn't get used much at all) I used to carry a Bb too, but it never got used. in addition to the 5 already mentioned, I also have an F and an E, but they never get used at all. I don't think I've ever even USED the F, but I used to use the E on 'Take the Long Way Home'.
Edited by muzzlitebeer 2014-01-09 7:42 PM
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | Hovard Heimdal - 2014-01-09 4:23 PM
Rick
Your G harp is the slant harp for A-minor
Try The house of the rising sun in A minor. It starts with a #4 draw (the 4th hole) on your G harp. You don't draw as much as in X-harp, and it is easier to find your way around the harp.
That would explain the Tom Petty song.
Hovard, is there a formula for slant harp, and do you only use it for minor keys? And thanks for all the info! |
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Location: GA USA | Slant harp is a new term for me too. Thanks for all the info. I've been playing cross harp since I was a teenager, but never really explored the other possibilities other than the basic A for E, C for G etc. I've always just thought of it as - "Think of the 1-4-5 progression and use the 4 harp". |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | Captain_Lovehandles - 2014-01-10 6:47 AM
Slant harp is a new term for me too. Thanks for all the info. I've been playing cross harp since I was a teenager, but never really explored the other possibilities other than the basic A for E, C for G etc. I've always just thought of it as - "Think of the 1-4-5 progression and use the 4 harp".
The thing is, all these methods - two-step blues; 1-4-5; and Muzza's fret/string method - are different roads that arrive at the same intersection. It's whatever you're comfortable with. As long as you end up choosing the right harp, it's all good. I like Muzza's method, because when I'm playing out, I can check myself just by looking at the guitar.
I'm REALLY intrigued by slant harp, though. Haven't had time to google it, and I'm curious to see what Hovard has to say...
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Location: Vancouver Island, BC | Two half steps below the Minor key on the guitar is your key for slant harp.
A tune in Cm would be played on a Bflat harp, Am wants a G harp etc.
Hotel Cal starts on a #6 draw. It is not as different from straight harp as X-harp, but as you draw more than in straight harp, you can bend a few more notes, and it can make for some "moody" tunes.
Us Northerners don't "feel" the blues, but I love minor chord in my music.
Clear as mud?? |
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Location: Chicago | I was never good at harmonica, but I sure remember the "A, HA!" moment when I was trying to play a blues in E. My E major harmonica just sounded horrible, like something from a cowboy movie. I read about cross harp and tried the A harmonica. WOW! The cool thing is that the E7 chord (the V) is what you get when you "draw" (I won't say "suck"... I always suck). So a blues or rock tune really needs the blues feel for the "home" key. You get the cool blue notes easily, pulling down the 1 the 3 the 5 etc. |
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Location: Vancouver Island, BC | Stumbled upon a tune that exemplifies slant harp well.
Dylan's "In the beginning" (God gave names to all the animals, in the beginning....)
Play it in Am on the guitar, and on yor G harp.
Am-E-E7-Am-Dm-E7-Am. Flows well on the harp. |
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Cross Key Harmonica Question
