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Location: undisclosed | What does Ovation use for shim material, nylon, other plastic? My 1624 had 2 shims, both looked homemade, one was of nylon, the other a different plastic colored black. I want to put a shim back in but would like to use the stock material. Thanks. |
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | I don't know what the original material is, but I needed to add a shim a few years back and asked John Budny at the factory about it. He was happy to send me a few, but he also said that I could cut up an old credit card (Or something similar; Starbucks cards work too.). As my guitar was sitting there with the pick-up assembly on my desk while we talked, I gave it a try. It worked fine. |
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Posts: 4044
Location: Utah | All the factory shims I have seen look like circuit board material. Some sort of fiberglass-ish stuff, light brown in color. Obvious layers in it. If you've ever seen a printed circuit board, this stuff looks just like it.
There are 2 thicknesses from the factory, at least in the last decade. There is a regular shim and then a half-thickness shim. Idk about the older instruments.
The factory may send you shims if you call customer support. They sent me some for free 5 years ago. |
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Posts: 359
Location: undisclosed | Thanks guys, it sounds like anything will work but I'd think density would be a factor. The circuit board material sounds like phenolic, I might have some. I'll try a few things and send a email to the factory. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Yup, phenolic, which is basically Epoxy and fibers of a variety of specifications.
Credit cards work just fine. |
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Location: undisclosed | Always avoided the things, I'll look for a despondent shopper ready to send the plastic under the knife.
I resurrected the Hurricane Sandy guitar and actually saved everything but the output jack. It had been completely soaked for quite a while with the strings on so the top bowed. It took quite a while but I straightened the top with damp rags inside and appropriate pressure in the right areas then let it dry out. I strung it up to use, the slight bow left meant lowering the action but over time that went away much to my surprise so I'm back putting in shims.
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Location: Muenster/Germany | In all my Ovations I replaced the phenolic shims with exactly made one-piece shims of spruce, the tone-wood that is used for the top. The physical contact with the top is much better, the sound little fuller and on the Adamas guitars even smoother, not that sharp.
The Ovations have comparably big drilling holes under the saddle and if you use a shim with more contact surface the acoustic sound will (guaranteed) enhance.And you can make these shims with different angles for the high and low strings.And for -andvanced studies- you may try different materials (boxwood...), if you want to sharpen or smoothen a special guitar. But spruce appears to be the best, and if you have made a precise shim that suits exactly you may glue it directly on the top, which produces the best effect. |
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Posts: 359
Location: undisclosed | Thank you, nothing like thinking outside of the box to get more out of the box. Sounds like the softer shim is rolling off the upper frequencies a bit as the better contact rounds out the sound. If that is true hardwood shims would be crisper, probably more like the phenolic. I'll play with this idea, matching the shim stock to the guitar model and strings is an interesting way to fine tune the tone. This is a nylon string with a spruce top and midsize/smaller bowl. I've noticed cedar tops are a bit warmer, unplugged it is a little thin sounding but well balanced. I love the neck, it is what I was looking for in a work horse. |
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Location: undisclosed | I went somewhat exotic and used Khaya for the shim stock. It did seem to warm up the tone a bit, I also made the shim a bit longer with deep grooves in the end to cover some of the wiring hole and go past the retaining pin on the other side. I'm still running low for a nylon string so I'll make a few thicker shims of different stock to try when I next change strings. I suppose a rosewood shim wood be like just having the bridge slot the right thickness. |
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Posts: 4044
Location: Utah | What material would add crispness to the tone? I don't want to reduce the lows, just increase the highs a bit on an Adamas.
Edited by FlySig 2014-02-09 10:27 AM
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Location: undisclosed | I'd try aluminum to match the pickup saddle. For wood something hard with a bright ring when you tap it like oak or rock maple. You have to be careful to get wood thin enough. Sitka Spruce has a interlocking grain or rays that make it more split resistant. The Khaya, am African mahogany is similarly tough. The lows were actually fuller.
Edited by Cavalier 2014-02-09 11:12 AM
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Location: Jet City | I wonder just how many times the folks at the factory tried various materials for shims. Since they have the vibration sensors, and all those other marvelous measurement doohickeys, I would imagine they are using either the best thing, or they found it doesn't make much of a difference using plastic/wood/metal. I just can't imaging they saying "OK, let's do a AAAAA spruce top, ring the whole thing with custom inlaid abalone, a kickass preamp, ebony fingerboard... and oh who givesashit about the shim, just make it outta anything" But I might be wrong. They absolutely coulda thought that way. To the OP. Ovation customer service usually has some they can send you.
Edited by Damon67 2014-02-10 11:35 AM
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Location: Boise, Idaho | The saddle is made out of hard plastic, which some people replace with bone to get a more dense saddle to transfer the sound directly to the top. The tops are made out of wood or graphite. My thought is that a shim of the same material as the saddle, or no shim at all would transfer the vibrations more directly and a softer material would muffle it. I'm not going to test that thought, because I probably couldn't hear the difference with my ears anyway and I'll just trust Ovation on this one. Damon could be right though and maybe they never thought about it.
Do any people with pinned bridges sell pins made out of spruce based on the same theory as the spruce shims? |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Mark in Boise - 2014-02-10 10:10 AM
Do any people with pinned bridges sell pins made out of spruce based on the same theory as the spruce shims?
Although I haven't seen bridge pins made of spruce they do make them in bone, fossilized walrus ivory, brass, and other weird stuff... There are minor debates about this on the Acoustic cork-sniffer forums. The general consensus being that bridge pin material really makes no difference as long as the string is held securely in the hole.
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Location: Utah | I've read that heavy bridge pins, e.g. made out of fossil mammoth tusk, can dampen high frequencies. I've also read that there is a noticeable improvement going from cheapo plastic to a wooden pin, such as ebony.
But that could all be cork sniffing.
I definitely can hear a difference between cheapo plastic saddles/nuts and a good bone or Tusq replacement.
Edited by FlySig 2014-02-10 5:18 PM
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Posts: 359
Location: undisclosed | The black pickup channel/saddle pickuo holder on this guitar is metal but it is one of the early first year electrics. Did they change to plastic? Having good contact probably makes the most difference. I did go with wood on the theory it would filter/ mellow the top end a bit, which it seemed to though subtly. To be scientific it should be recorded, preferably to a neat computer waveform app. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I was talking about straight acoustics, not acoustic-electrics. |
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Posts: 359
Location: undisclosed | Right, they don't have the black anodized aluminum pick up carrier....seems that would be missing half the possibilities but not everybody plugs in. It makes sense that the smaller shim size of the straight acoustic would affect the tone less. It is a pretty wide contact patch on the electrics, not counting the narrow saddle pickups that have come along. |
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Posts: 4044
Location: Utah | On my 1976 non-electric O there are no shims. Just a narrow saddle sanded to the correct dimensions. |
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shim stock?
