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The definitive Preacher thread?

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gmaslin
Posted 2013-09-27 5:08 AM (#476472 - in reply to #475068)
Subject: RE: The definitive Preacher thread?


Joined:
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Posts: 79

Update: I'm going to see the 'Preacher III' this weekend. I am offering $630 without looking underneath and $900 if I can remove the pickguard. Am I being too generous? As an aside, I have a local opportunity for a standard Preacher for $350. Which is the better deal here?
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MWoody
Posted 2013-09-27 2:08 PM (#476489 - in reply to #475068)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?



Joined:
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Posts: 13924

Location: Upper Left USA
Get both.

Then put a custom wood veneer pickguard on the one you want to look the best. It'll trash the retail value but it will look cool.
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gmaslin
Posted 2013-09-27 5:26 PM (#476498 - in reply to #475068)
Subject: RE: The definitive Preacher thread?


Joined:
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Posts: 79

MWoody
I think I only have room for one preacher. I'm assuming your reply was slightly tongue in cheek. A straight reply would have been more welcome

TJR
That is an excellent document photo and I really appreciate you pulling it up to contribute here. Was that their only one? If it wasn't, do you know where those machines or any of the operators who worked on them are today?
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2013-09-27 8:43 PM (#476504 - in reply to #476498)
Subject: RE: The definitive Preacher thread?



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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
gmaslin - 2013-09-27 3:26 PM

MWoody
I think I only have room for one preacher. I'm assuming your reply was slightly tongue in cheek. A straight reply would have been more welcome
You know what happens when you "assume".

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numbfingers
Posted 2013-09-27 9:00 PM (#476505 - in reply to #476498)
Subject: RE: The definitive Preacher thread?


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Posts: 1083

Location: NW Washington State
gmaslin - 2013-09-27 5:26 PM
MWoody
I think I only have room for one preacher. I'm assuming your reply was slightly tongue in cheek. A straight reply would have been more welcome


OK, here's a straight reply.

I hope you buy the three pickup Preacher for $900, or even $650, because then you will have overspent on a guitar that you want because you think it's unique and important, even though it's ordinary at best and overpriced.

It's what you deserve! Go for it, and let us know where that other Preacher is available for $350!

-Steve W.


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MWoody
Posted 2013-09-27 9:01 PM (#476506 - in reply to #475068)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?



Joined:
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Posts: 13924

Location: Upper Left USA

All of my replies are straight.

Straight off the top of my head mostly, but straight all the same.

Its my guitars that are curved and cheeky.



Edited by MWoody 2013-09-27 9:03 PM
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2013-09-27 9:18 PM (#476508 - in reply to #476506)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?



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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
MWoody - 2013-09-27 7:01 PM


I miss that guitar.

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gmaslin
Posted 2013-09-27 10:10 PM (#476515 - in reply to #475068)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?


Joined:
September 2013
Posts: 79

numbfingers
You could have instructed me on whose signature to look for, where to look for it or any other way to confirm its legitimacy not previously mentioned by Miles, but instead, you decided to say what a fool I am. If a 3 pickup Preacher isn't rare or special, why aren't there a bunch of them around? No one here would guff at paying $900 for a 12 string PF22 which was unknown until recently, so why do you think I'm paying too much for the rarer guitar? I'm in this just as much for the capital appreciation as for the joy of playing. I have other guitars but don't have any Ovations so why not get a special one? It is entirely possible that it was ordered with three pickups to imitate Brian May's three humbucker custom guitar. It is also plausible to conjecture that it wouldn't have been ordered on the deluxe because of the pre-amp. Were any Preacher Deluxe made without the pre-amp electronics? Is everyone reading in agreement that $900 is excessive for the guitar if it was a legit factory made custom?
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2013-09-28 3:07 AM (#476521 - in reply to #475068)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?



Joined:
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Posts: 10469

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
I have other guitars but don't have any Ovations so why not get a special one?
If you just want to get an Ovation, why not get one that is representative of Ovations in general.
A regular Viper? There is a Viper III on d'Bay. A coupla UKII's. Snakeskin Celebrity. Plus VXT's.
Rather than one that is one-of-a-kind. A unique guitar is only "Kewel" to people who recognize that coolness.

Is everyone reading in agreement that $900 is excessive for the guitar if it was a legit factory made custom?
If it is a Nice guitar, it wouldn't matter if it was a legit factory made custom or not.

If you don't have any Ovations and you just want one, I might get the regular Preacher for $350.
Then again, it would depend on the condition of the guitar.

As to $900 being too much?... The only guitar that I own that cost over $1K is an Adamas.
But many members have custom made guitar that were probably quite expensive.
Unless you are sure that this is an awesome guitar, why would you pay that much for it anyway.
I have Killer guitars that cost much less than $500...
How desirable is this guitar? Is it still available? If so, it ain't that desirable nor that great a deal.

I almost bought a $200 DJ Ashba Celebrity today... While I was thinking someone bought it...
That was a desirable guitar at a good price... But Not so desirable that I bought it.
Do you get what I am saying?

So if you are thinking of this as an investment... Ovations are not really popular investments.
You may need a whole lot of patience to see a profitable return on your investment.
If you just want to PLAY it... Why haven't you bought it already?
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gmaslin
Posted 2013-09-28 6:53 AM (#476528 - in reply to #475068)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?


Joined:
September 2013
Posts: 79

Okay, so we seem to agree that a 'Preacher III' is not a common configuration but what makes it unrepresentative of Ovation? Am I the only one here who believes this Preacher three pickup configuration is 'kewl' and even 'kewler' if factory legitimate? The replies seem to indicate that the standard Preacher available to me for $350 is the better deal but if I got that and paid someone to add a third pickup and wire the selection options, what would my total cost be then? If this guitar was from the Ovation factory as a legit custom order purchase back then, it indicates to me that the person who ordered it had some guitar sophistication. That person may have been influential or historically significant which adds further speculative value. Why isn't that notable and worthy of a premium? I cannot understand why the members here don't concur with my logic, it seems to fall in lock step with how 'value' of an Ovation is determined.

Old Man Arthur
I understand your point entirely with the DJ Ashba but what makes your Adamas more 'valuable' than this 'Preacher III' if it was factory original? It probably isn't because it cost more to make at the time. Yes, Ovations are not popular investments today and that is the point. The patience will be an easy task. I will be playing that Preacher while the market begins to recognize what we already figured out.
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Designzilla
Posted 2013-09-28 9:23 AM (#476532 - in reply to #476528)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?


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Posts: 2150

Location: Orlando, FL
gmaslin - 2013-09-28 7:53 AM
I will be playing that Preacher while the market begins to recognize what we already figured out.


I don't think that will ever happen. Even in their heyday Ovation electrics were under appreciated. Most of the guitar playing public view Ovation as an acoustic guitar company who's best days are behind them. And many of those people have never played, or want to play, an Ovation. To them an Ovation solid body is just an oddity.

As for value, there's market value and personal value. Even if a guitar is overpriced for the market, it still may have enough value to you personally to buy it. I know I have overspent for instruments before, but I didn't like them any less.

Bottom line, don't agonize about it. If you really want it, buy it and then let us all know what you think.

And since you seem to like it here, PLEASE grow a thicker skin and develop an sense of humor! A lot of great information is shared along with the sarcasm and smart assery. It's the collective personality of the site. Relax and don't take things personally. You don't have to call people out for being unhelpful it you don't like 10% of their post. If you examine the archives you will find a huge amount of great info offered with razor wit. Believe me this place has mellowed considerably!

Buy a guitar and enjoy it!
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FlySig
Posted 2013-09-28 9:24 AM (#476533 - in reply to #476506)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 3873

Location: Utah
MWoody - 2013-09-27 9:01 PM

All of my replies are straight.

Straight off the top of my head mostly, but straight all the same.

Its my guitars that are curved and cheeky.



Are there 2 of those, or do I now own the town bicycle?

The electronics are different in mine, with the piezo bridge and active preamp on board. Otherwise though it looks like the same instrument.

Man, do I love that guitar!
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FlySig
Posted 2013-09-28 9:33 AM (#476534 - in reply to #475068)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 3873

Location: Utah
The Preacher Deluxe with the built in preamp is generally considered to sound better than the standard Preacher. My daughters Deluxe sounds great, I've never played a standard Preacher. It is heavy, plays easy. Her Deluxe has coil splitting switches, so you can get a good single coil sound. Lots of sonic options there.

If you love the PIII, buy it if you can pony up the $. As DesignZilla said, we've all paid too much for some instruments according to market pricing, but if a guitar calls your name you have no choice but to take her home.

On the flip side, we've all been saddened by how low market prices can be on guitars we are trying to sell.
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MWoody
Posted 2013-09-28 1:24 PM (#476538 - in reply to #475068)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13924

Location: Upper Left USA
Flysig,
I think it is a different one along the same genre. Tell you the truth, I have lost track of the coming ins and going outs...

Is this how Trader Jim feels all the time?
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Mr. Ovation
Posted 2013-09-28 2:41 PM (#476539 - in reply to #476528)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7068

Location: The Great Pacific Northwest

Okay, so we seem to agree that a 'Preacher III' is not a common configuration but what makes it unrepresentative of Ovation?
Only in the sence that it was never a production run.  Certainly an example of what Ovation could do regardless of how it got that way. 

Am I the only one here who believes this Preacher three pickup configuration is 'kewl' and even 'kewler' if factory legitimate?
Not at all.  Doesn't change the value or collectibiilty much unless you are specifically looking for one-off's even then.. doesn't really effect the value...  Kewl factor is there... in spades.. 

The replies seem to indicate that the standard Preacher available to me for $350 is the better deal but if I got that and paid someone to add a third pickup and wire the selection options, what would my total cost be then?
Well probably at the top end of the scale, an additional $300-$500 depending on who did the work, but at sell time it would still only garner a couple hundred more than original.

If this guitar was from the Ovation factory as a legit custom order purchase back then, it indicates to me that the person who ordered it had some guitar sophistication. That person may have been influential or historically significant which adds further speculative value. Why isn't that notable and worthy of a premium?
If you could prove this, which is a near impossibilty in the best of scenario's then it would certainly add a couple hundred to the value depending on who the originator of the guitar was.  As I mentioned earlier, there were people putting together Ovation solid bodies from parts in all sorts of configurations in the late 90's and early 2000's.  I bought up most of them as they were going for a song on ebay and at shows.  In most cases, much less than the "original".  Most were done nicely.  I parted them out for way more than I could get as a hole guitar.
  

While we are on the subject of Preachers... I have a VERY cool Preacher.  What I think is the best made... It's a Preacher with Viper Pickups.  Not only was it built at the factory, it's documented on the cover of an album made by and produced by the Kaman family who owned the factory.  The Viper pickups should have been used in that guitar from the start.  Kewl factor and mojo off the scale!!!    To 99.9% of the people even remotely interested, it's just a Preacher with Viper pickups. Hell... I have the FINAL prototype of the Breadwinner.  The final model configuration before production..  Someday these guitars may be worth something to someone or a museum besides me.  Kewl factor off the scale...  monetary value.... not-so-much unless it's just the "right" buyer. 

I cannot understand why the members here don't concur with my logic, it seems to fall in lock step with how 'value' of an Ovation is determined.
We concur on the cool factor I think.  And we concur with your "what if" logic, but the fact remains.. there is nearly no chance worth mentioning that you will determine its lineage, and even if you do..  that only adds a few hundred unless it was Glen Campbell or some 80's famous rocker that did the mod.   Here's another example.  Boston's double-neck Preacher, the only one made we know of, well documented, sold in the range you mentioned for this Preacher with 3-pickups.  Just trying to give you some percpective..  

As was stated above... You seem to be drawn to this guiar... BUY IT.   That's the only way you'll get some sleep.  And, if it turns out you can establish the lineage, all the better.   If the current owner figures it out and it turns out to be something or someone important, you can rest assured you likely won't have another crack at it.

Ovations are not popular investments today and that is the point. The patience will be an easy task. I will be playing that Preacher while the market begins to recognize what we already figured out.
Actually Ovations are a great value.  On average you could have bought an Ovation 30 years ago and probably get your money out of it if sold.  Adamas' have taken a hit, but that will change.  The problem is, Ovation never had an "expencive" guitar..   So in value, in the scheme of things, we're talking pennies really.  The average solid body streeted for $300-$500 when NEW...  While other brands at least had models that streeted for at least twice that.   

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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2013-09-28 4:01 PM (#476543 - in reply to #476528)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10469

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
gmaslin - 2013-09-28 4:53 AM

Old Man Arthur
I understand your point entirely with the DJ Ashba but what makes your Adamas more 'valuable' than this 'Preacher III' if it was factory original?

I only said that my 1681 is the only guitar that I paid more than a thousand for...
And that is just what they go for. Or did back then. (now they cost More)
I was just in the right place at the right time.
(this is my Baby... I need to take it out more)

As to what makes it worth more... Materials and Labor.

Also, I own electric guitars, but I really don't play electric guitar.
I play acoustic guitar on an electric... I don't shred, or wail, or tap, or wah-wah.
Therefore, while I find expensive electric guitars kewel to admire...
I shouldn't be spending money on them.

But I am getting attracted to the little ones...


Sorry... Didn't mean to travel too OT.
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MWoody
Posted 2013-09-28 6:18 PM (#476548 - in reply to #475068)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13924

Location: Upper Left USA
"Sorry... Didn't mean to travel too OT"

Compared to what?
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2013-09-28 6:25 PM (#476549 - in reply to #476548)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10469

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR

MWoody - 2013-09-28 4:18 PM

"Sorry... Didn't mean to travel too OT"

Compared to what?
Oh... I don't know...

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Mr. Ovation
Posted 2013-09-29 3:29 PM (#476563 - in reply to #475068)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7068

Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
I'm thinking those comix are worth more than most of our guitars.
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Mr. Ovation
Posted 2013-09-29 3:58 PM (#476565 - in reply to #476528)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?


Joined:
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Posts: 7068

Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
gmaslin - 2013-09-28 4:53 AM

Okay, so we seem to agree that a 'Preacher III' is not a common configuration but what makes it unrepresentative of Ovation? Am I the only one here who believes this Preacher three pickup configuration is 'kewl' and even 'kewler' if factory legitimate? The replies seem to indicate that the standard Preacher available to me for $350 is the better deal but if I got that and paid someone to add a third pickup and wire the selection options, what would my total cost be then? If this guitar was from the Ovation factory as a legit custom order purchase back then, it indicates to me that the person who ordered it had some guitar sophistication. That person may have been influential or historically significant which adds further speculative value. Why isn't that notable and worthy of a premium? I cannot understand why the members here don't concur with my logic, it seems to fall in lock step with how 'value' of an Ovation is determined.

Old Man Arthur
I understand your point entirely with the DJ Ashba but what makes your Adamas more 'valuable' than this 'Preacher III' if it was factory original? It probably isn't because it cost more to make at the time. Yes, Ovations are not popular investments today and that is the point. The patience will be an easy task. I will be playing that Preacher while the market begins to recognize what we already figured out.


I know you addressed others, but I may have the answers you are looking for.

On value.. Most of us who have participated in this thread have spent Waaaay too much on a guitar at one time just because we wanted it. So any of the "overpayment" remarks are somewhat tongue'n cheek. No the guitar isn't worth a thousand, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't buy it if it speaks to you. You will be sorry if you don't.

The PF-22's can't be compared to the Preacher in the sense that the legitimacy as a group of prototypes is known. The 12-string in fact went to a rock star. It's documented. And just so you know... While they may not be posting.. the people that built these guitars, are reading this. If they remembered it, or knew anything about it, they would have either posted or asked someone (me) to post for them. That's my personal red flag that the guitar may not have been built at the factory.

There wouldn't be a particular signature that you are looking for. But, if there was a signature and someone piped up that they knew the name and knew their signature that would be a clue. If no one recognized it, then at least it's someone you could google to get you closer to its history.

You may also want to spend some more time reading the archive around here. Just jump in anywhere or google sold body or something. The truth is that with your logic ALL Ovation SHOULD be worth a LOT more than they are, and ANY custom or one-off should be worth WAY more than that. I agree. Unfortunately it just doesn't work that way with Ovations. They weren't all that expensive to start off with. If you invested in a popular $1000 guitar 30 years ago, if it's today value was $3000-$5000 most wouldn't bat an eye. But Ovations were only worth about $500 30 years ago. So if one is selling for $1500 today, it better be off the charts in popular and rare and condition and owned by a rock start of note.

Further comparison/perspective.. A PF-22 TODAY would be a $2000 guitar yet it's pretty hard to half that for an actual PF-22. It's a set neck, hand-built guitar with DiMarzio pickups made in the USA with Schaller hardware. Find another set-neck made in USA like this and they are selling NOW more than this guitar was ever selling for and remember the PF-22 was NEVER a production guitar. Now apply the same logic to the PF-22 Basses...

Want more extremes... THe Ultra-GS guitars. Out-Strat any Strato out there. The Hardware alone is worth more than you can buy/sell a complete guitar. They too were assembled in the USA. You can't touch a similar name brand guitar today for at least twice what these ever sold for, and then you'd stll have to swap the pickups, machines and bridge for another $500 just to get a similar guitar and you still wouldn't have the cool and comfortable routing around the edge. It's nuts... but it's the way it is.
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gmaslin
Posted 2013-09-30 8:27 AM (#476582 - in reply to #475068)
Subject: RE: The definitive Preacher thread?


Joined:
September 2013
Posts: 79

Mr. Ovation
Once again, thanks for the truly informative posts. As stated earlier, I went to play the guitar this weekend. It sounds quite good in many pickup configurations and the variety of tones are astounding. It really plays like a universal guitar that can imitate any sound (I counted at least 32 distinct pickup combinations before I got tired). I noted a few deadish spots so a fret dress or other adjustment would be necessary to make it play better. Given that I couldn't get ANY cooperation from the seller investigating the underbody of the guitar, I didn't feel comfortable pulling the trigger on the unit. He wants $1000 with OHSC and insists that an Ovation employee made this guitar and that it shipped from an Ovation factory. When asked how he knew this not being the original owner he said he got the guitar from his uncle's sound studio in Manhattan. I am still communicating with him about the history of the guitar but if you are right about the people who built these guitars reading and not recognizing this build, I think I made the right decision. I am going to buy the plain jane Preacher for my consolation.

Designzilla
My skin is fairly thick and I can dish it out about as well as I can take it. If you review my post history you can validate this.
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Mr. Ovation
Posted 2013-09-30 2:57 PM (#476592 - in reply to #475068)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7068

Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
gmasiln, I'm in your corner on this. Try contacting the studio or at least getting the studio name and posting here. THAT might be something that rings a bell. Maybe not the guitar itself, but remembering "hey.. we built some crazy guitar for that studio". That's the stuff builders remember. I still think you should get the stock Preacher as well... you can likely move it at the same price you paid if you don't like it. Did you take any snapshots of the Preacher with three pickups?
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gmaslin
Posted 2013-10-01 1:42 PM (#476615 - in reply to #475068)
Subject: RE: The definitive Preacher thread?


Joined:
September 2013
Posts: 79

Mr. Ovation
Yes, I took some photos but to be honest, I don't want to think about this anymore so I will try to make this as complete a post as I can so i can learn to enjoy my cheaper Preacher (which I will be picking up tonight). The seller's uncle is not sure of the exact business name since he sold his share even before the studio closed in 1997 but this sound studio operated under an Atlantic records contract. The arrangement was described to me as follows: Atlantic paid the studio partners a fixed annual fee so that if any of their signed artists needed it at any time, they would have a ready studio with three hours notice. All other financial responsibilities unrelated to the artist fell on the partnership. These guys were the real deal, artists like Rick James and many others of varying notoriety frequented this studio and very likely played this guitar. I'll say something about the character of that guitar. I have never played a cleaner sounding humbucker, it is so completely lacking in any sonic character that in normal operation it is somewhat uninvolving. It doesn't do anything exciting on its own and you have to really pluck at it to make it cluck or put it off its keel. It's not missing anything, the output is full, lacking neither treble nor base and it's all very balanced but it doesn't invent anything until you start splitting the coils and pairing them up again. They really named it properly because this guitar is as stoic, sober and as free from sin as they come but and this is VERY big BUT, I've never heard a guitar sound better with effects than this one, ESPECIALLY with a wah pedal! Closest thing to a real person crying I have ever heard, really. Effect combinations that make other guitars sound ridiculous, unbearably offensive or cartoonish just reach their stride with a Preacher. It can get all those weird sounds but it takes more to get it there. It's like no matter what crazy modeling parameter you use, it finds a way to keep it from getting stupid. I can completely understand why a studio would want a guitar configured like this. That guitar could go from big ball fat to razor thin and scratchy and make both sound credible, very impressive. Now that I've heard the Preacher coils split, you can bet that I will be attempting this on my own Preacher.



(Preacher III_2.jpg)



(Neck.jpg)



(Pickguard Edge.png)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Preacher III_2.jpg (83KB - 4 downloads)
Attachments Neck.jpg (55KB - 0 downloads)
Attachments Pickguard Edge.png (80KB - 3 downloads)
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Damon67
Posted 2013-10-01 6:32 PM (#476621 - in reply to #475068)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?



Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6990

Location: Jet City
FWIW, those switches came from the factory. Did you see that there were actual batteries in this thing? It's definitely setup different than a deluxe.
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gmaslin
Posted 2013-10-01 7:05 PM (#476622 - in reply to #475068)
Subject: Re: The definitive Preacher thread?


Joined:
September 2013
Posts: 79

No batteries, no unity gain pre amp, just a straight Preacher but with a 5-way switch that chose B, BM, BN, MN, N and the three other switches chose the modes, split, join and mix. I believe it was wired for 48 different combinations, I would have loved to see how it was done. I was also impressed with how neatly everything was laid out. All accessible without getting in the way. For those curious, there are 27 x 5 potential combinations with those switches.
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