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Joined:
May 2013
Posts: 37
Location: Bury St Edmunds England | My guitar is a 1999 model. I have problem with the 1st, 2nd and 3rd strings. When they are played at the 12th and 14th fret they all buzz. I spoke to a Luthier who has seen this before with Adamas guitars. Looking down the neck I can see that it does bow slightly in this region only but not on the other side of the neck for 4, 5 and 6 strings. I am wondering whether this can be corrected with the truss-rod adjustment as I would assume the truss-rod can only change the neck angle down the whole length of the neck
Thanks
Marc |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | No responses yet?
Sorry. I probably cannot help you with the buzz...
But I can help you (warn you) with the truss rod.
You ask "I am wondering whether this can be corrected with the truss-rod adjustment as I would assume the truss-rod can only change the neck angle down the whole length of the neck"
That is incorrect. The truss rod adjust the neck "relief" between the headstock and the heel.
I would probably have no effect on fret buzz at the 12th and 14th fret, as that is over the neck joint.
So don't go twisting the truss rod hoping to cure that buzz... you may cause worse problems.
Photos might help. Also, adjustment of the saddle height might help.
But wait for smarter people than me to answer before you do anything.
Also... Your Luthier? Did he offer a solution? I think that he is talking out his butt.
He may have seen a rise around the 12th-14th fret on an older center-hole Ovation.
But I doubt that he has handled many Adamii... Otherwise he would know how to fix it, eh?
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Joined:
May 2013
Posts: 37
Location: Bury St Edmunds England | Arthur-thanks for you reply. He did say to bring it in for him to look at as it also has a chunk missing from the headstock that I am hoping he can sort. He didn't give me details of what he could do about the neck but believed it was possible to fix.
Regards
Marc |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12755
Location: Boise, Idaho | I hate to say anything after OMA told you to wait for smarter people, because I'm not one of those. Fret buzz where the neck joins the guitar body isn't unusual on any guitar. If you get the same note when you fret at the 12th to 14th fret, that's from a bump in the neck or the frets. You might be able to help with a truss rod adjustment, but don't do it unless you know you need a truss rod adjustment. That is determined by pretty standard checks that are explained elswhere, including in the Ovation owner's manuals. I always forget which bend is a bow and which is a warp, so I can't explain it. I prefer to check the neck with a straight edge. You might just have a fret that's lifting on one side. If the straight edge rocks back and forth on that fret, it's easy to see. That can sometimes be corrected with a little tapping or a fret dress, but it also could be fixed by raising the action a little by inserting a shim back under the saddle.
I've had this problem on two of my Ovations, neither with center holes. One old (87) and one new. Never had the problem on an Adamas. That doesn't mean Ovations are more prone to the problem. It's just that 95% of the guitars I've owned over the last 40 years have been Ovations.
Edit: I just remembered the "chunk" out of the headstock. My 87 with the problem also had indications that it had been dropped on it's neck. That could have caused the problem. My new one has never been dropped, but I first noticed the problem after I changed the strings, lowered the action and had a seasonal/humidity change.
Edited by Mark in Boise 2013-08-16 1:34 PM
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Joined:
May 2013
Posts: 37
Location: Bury St Edmunds England | Mark-thanks for your reply. The guitar is tuned (1-6) C C G C G C (with standard 13-56 EXP D'addario,s). Unusual I know but I can recommend it. Just had a close look at the frets and they all seem home and dry. Looking more closely at which frets buzz, the first buzzes at 12 (not 13} 14 15 and 16 clear beyond that. The second string (tuned to the exact same note as the first) buzzes a little at the 11th fret, the 12 fret and then clear. The third buzzes at frets 9, 10 11 and 12 then clear, everything else is fine. Not sure if that helps answer my problem or makes it more complicated. I did add a part shim to raise just the first, second and perhaps third string but I want to keep the action reasonably low.
Regards
Marc |
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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: Utah | I can't help but wonder if the tuning is part of the problem. The 1st string is going to be looser tension than standard, and a fret buzz is not unusual unless the action is set higher. The lower 3 strings are also looser in tension, perhaps creating a slight torsion in the neck ? I find with alternate tunings I have to adjust the action higher to avoid buzzing.
On the 2 O's and 1 A I have here, the frets above about 15 or 16 do seem to slope down, and look to be intentionally so. It is a very slight dip visually. Thus I am not surprised you have don't have a buzz in the highest frets.
Are you the original owner? Do you know the full history of this instrument? For example has there been any fret leveling or filing done on it? Has it been kept in a reasonable and a stable environment wrt humidity and temperature?
As OMA stated, the truss rod really is there to adjust the shape of the neck between the nut and the 12th fret. If you capo at the 1st and the 13th fret simultaneously, there should be a barely discernable gap between the top of the 6th fret and the bottom of each string. A tiny bit more of a gap under the heavier strings is ok but not required. With good reading glasses on, I can barely see this gap. Carefully and gently tapping each string I can feel the string just barely move and then tap the top of the fret. So I know there is some space there, but not much.
If the neck is not twisted, if there are no humps in the neck, and if there are no bad frets (high, low, grooved, etc), this is the basic test:
If the strings buzz when played open or in the first 3 frets, the nut is too low. If the strings buzz when you play from the 3rd to 9th fret, your truss rod is too tight. If the strings buzz from the 12th fret on up, the saddle is too low.
If notes in the first few frets sound out of tune, and if the action feels high playing in those first frets, your nut is too high. Capo between the 2nd and 3rd fret and do the same tap test and visual test described above. The strings should just barely clear the top of the 1st fret. If the nut height is ok but the action feels too high, the truss rod may be too loose. If the nut and truss rod are ok but the action is too high it could be the saddle is too high. Remove shims to lower the saddle (or if no shims and no pickup, shave the bottom of the saddle to lower it).
If the angle of the neck is bad compared to the body of the guitar, and you have adjusted the truss rod and lowered the saddle, you might get buzzing in the area you are experiencing. Perhaps the impact which damaged the headstock also slightly altered the neck angle. If you have a good straight edge of the right length you can check the neck angle. Remove the strings and loosen the truss rod. The fretboard should be flat. There may be a hump at the attachment area to the guitar. I think this would be remedied by a luthier removing the frets and sanding the fretboard a bit flatter, then refretting it and leveling the frets. Depending on the amount of hump, this might be a total fix. If there is no hump, where does the straight edge contact the bridge? It should be at approximately the top of the wooden part of the bridge. Not at the body, and not at the top of the saddle. |
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