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Posts: 698
Location: Cork, Ireland | Action at 1st few frets seems high on my 1615. That is to say, I find it hard to play 'easy' chords like C major (032010). The strings seem relatively high in the nut. Any guidelines on what string height should be at 1st fret
Or is this just me getting used to the extra tension (and wider neck) on a 12-string? |
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Posts: 4026
Location: Utah | Here's an easy way to check it. Press down the 6th string between the 2nd and 3rd frets. The string should just barely clear the 1st fret. Do the same with the 1st string. If they buzz on the first fret, the nut is cut too low. If there is a lot of space, the nut is too high.
Think of it this way, your nut is your zero fret. Frets 1 through 22 (or whatever your guitar has) are all the same height as each other. Why should the zero fret be a lot higher than the rest? It does need to be a tad higher so you don't get fret buzz on open chords, but not much at all.
One of my guitars has a real zero fret. The zero fret is just barely taller fret than the rest of the frets.
Getting the nut height reduced seems to be a very big contributor to playability across the entire neck, and a big contributor to correct intonation in the first few frets.
On a 12 string, the first fret is harder to play than on a 6 string, at least it is on my Alvarez Yairi 12. Even with the nut cut properly you will still have twice the tension as a comparable 6. If you aren't using light gauge strings, that may be a contributor as well. |
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Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA | www.stewmac.com
has a lot to say on setup. And it's free. |
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March 2007
Posts: 698
Location: Cork, Ireland | Out of curiosity I got the main music shop in town (where Rory Gallagher bought his famous strat)to check it out. The very experienced owner there reckoned it was fine, I just had to get used to playing a 12-string. I then went to a repair guy (who does repairs for the above shop and comes recommended by others) and he reckoned the nut could do with being lowered a bit - would do the job plus a fret dress for €75 which I thought reasonable. Hmm, decisions, decisions...
I asked if he saw many Ovations and interestingly he had one in the shop with a warped neck. |
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June 2006
Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | Originally posted by FlySig:
Here's an easy way to check it. Press down the 6th string between the 2nd and 3rd frets. The string should just barely clear the 1st fret. Some recommend .008, but I've gone as low as .004 (about the thickness of a sheet of copy paper) and it works fine. It's better to loosen the string, pull it out of the nut and use a small straight edge. |
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December 2003
Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA | I refer again to the Stewmac info. Valuable stuff!
Consider the Nut to be at the same height (plus a skosh) as the frets. The exception for a 12 string are that the top of the octaves should be as high as the main strings.
A set of Files and Feeler gages is a welcome accesory. |
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Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA |  |
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Posts: 5575
Location: big island | get one of these |
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June 2006
Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | I was tempted to get one of those Randy, but using feeler gauges and a straight edge is very easy and a lot cheaper. |
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Posts: 106
Location: UK | Think of it this way, your nut is your zero fret. Frets 1 through 22 (or whatever your guitar has) are all the same height as each other. Why should the zero fret be a lot higher than the rest? You mentioned a 'zero' fret. I've seen guitars that actually had a metal fret directly in front of the nut. I suppose on those guitars the slots in the nut are just being used to keep the string spacing and it's that 'zero' fret that dictates what the action is ? |
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December 2003
Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA | Yes. |
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Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | A man of few words. :D |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Must be an impostor. |
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March 2007
Posts: 698
Location: Cork, Ireland | Uh-oh!
I tried to fix it myself by sanding the base of the nut. Of course I went too far on the treble side, had to build up again with shims so now back to square one. Will get new nut and try again! |
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December 2003
Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA | Uncle Woody's BFLG class for the short attention span theatre:
I have a set of these Feeler Gage Fret Files and I use them often.
First you want to use the Feeler gages to see how high your frets are. Lay a straight edge (scale, feeler, etc.) across frets 1 & 2 and see which feelers do and don't slip under. For safety sake use the first size that doesn't fit.
Now lay this across the fretboard up against the nut. Did I mention that the strings are on and tensioned? also you have set the neck and saddle as best you can.
Using the appropriate feeler/file (and the string gage reference on the string package) cut the slot (at an angle) into the nut. When you start hitting the feeler stop you are there!
If you do go too deep you can mix a dab of Cyano glue with filings and drop it into the slot to build it back up. Porcelin repair stuff works too.
If you have a new and probably oversized nut you should place it in the groove and using a sanded flat pencil layed onto the frets to mark a line across the nut that will show where the slot depths will be. Then you can shape the nut down to about 1/16" above the mark and start cutting the slots. |
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March 2007
Posts: 698
Location: Cork, Ireland | Got a new nut with slots already in it. Happened to be a bit lower than my old one so I just had to sand to correct thickness. Obviously if the thickness was tapered all the way up, sanding the base would make the whole nut thinner but it worked out OK for me this time. Thanks as alwasy for all your replies. |
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December 2003
Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA | O-pinions-R-Us |
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August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Someone else bought a set of those recently. I'm really tempted. Are they really that idiot-proof, Woody? |
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June 2007
Posts: 3084
Location: Brisbane Australia | But are they Muzza proof?? :D |
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August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Nothing is Muzza-proof. I'm thinking of practicing on an old UKII I've got laying around here somewhere. |
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November 2008
Posts: 83
Location: North Wales, UK. | Easiest and cheapest way to make a nut-slot file is to make your own out of a set of feeler guages.
Choose your string sizes from the feeler guage set and using a fine file set cut several small V grooves across one feeler guage blade edge.
You have made your nut slot file set.
dave3dg |
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Nut height/slot depth
