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Location: Nashville TN. | The number of Models and American made chooses is the smallest I remember.
A bunch moved to Guild production.
1980 there were 2 Ovation factories in CT.
Work forces expand and contract with demand.
1981 27,942
1991 11,809
2003 7,700 |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Are those the number of employees at Ovation? |
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| Demand would be higher if people knew they were there. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Maybe. But do you really want demand to be higher? Do you really want to be just another lemming playing whatever everyone else plays?
I get a small degree of satisfaction being different. I like the fact that Ovation is a little quirky, not very well known and not flooding the walls in every guitar shop. If they were more popular I doubt I would be as big a fan. I bothers me ZERO that most people think they are cheap plastic pieces of crap.
I just play what I like, because that's what I like. Call me crazy.
Toby |
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Location: Nashville TN. | I don't think the late 70s to mid 80s numbers were maintainable. They really were the only act in town.
In the Late 80s early 90s you could easily find
USA Ovations, in store.
There was a little music in Middletown Ct
Always had 8 to 12 Os in stock all the time.
Diddo LaSalle in E Hartford.
My own expirence I bought my first Ovation in 1989
(the Thunderbolt) because the store got me to try it. 2003 looking again and find I no deep bowl no cut, (what I wanted) and no USA guitars in stock.
I ended up buying a Martin. |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by Gallerinski:
Are those the number of employees at Ovation? No guitars produced from serial numbers by year.
I read a NY Times article circa 1981 and said
New Hartford the was 100 people there. |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by Gallerinski:
Maybe. But do you really want demand to be higher? Do you really want to be just another lemming playing whatever everyone else plays?
I get a small degree of satisfaction being different. I like the fact that Ovation is a little quirky, not very well known and not flooding the walls in every guitar shop. If they were more popular I doubt I would be as big a fan. I bothers me ZERO that most people think they are cheap plastic pieces of crap.
I just play what I like, because that's what I like. Call me crazy.
Toby Ovation not exactly unkown its household name.
It used to be everbody wanted Ovation guitars.
in 1981 there was 60% market share.
CF Martin almost went out of business in 1982
having only produced 3000 guitars.
{down 22,000 in 1970}
Yes I do want demand being higher.
I am sick of hearing I don't like Ovations (based imports) but that one sounds great.
As demand goes up product chooses go up.
Martin has 600 employees right now.
Produce 250,000 from 2000 to 2004. |
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| Originally posted by Gallerinski:
... Do you really want to be just another lemming playing whatever everyone else plays?
Toby Yeah I don't really care enough about the lemming hearted hoards to notice what they're up to one way or another and I don't care if I'm different or not - standards like that ain't nuthin to me. As long as the lemmings don't start coming over the walls at night I don't think about them and if they do; well, that's what the 1911 is for..lol
But from a business point of view, Ovation could at least make their product available. I've never seen an Adamas or whatever in a local music shop - just the low end stuff so I can't even try one out and I live in a place where people have money for expensive guitars.
Originally posted by Gallerinski:
... I just play what I like, because that's what I like. I agree. I'm more interested in making one instrument speak than having 50 guitars that I only sorta know.
NB - that's not a meant as a shot at the collectors it's just that I have two guitars and I'm always finding new sounds in them so I figure there's more to discover. |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by Joe Rotax:
Demand would be higher if people knew they were there. People that start with a Celb would move up an American Ovations.
Brand loyality erroades if they not in the store.
Plus new people stop trying your product.
The higher end products lose prestige.
People forget how good they really are. |
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Location: Tuscany, Italy | PEZ I agreed with you. People here think Ovation is hard or nearly impossible to find in stores and pretty expensive for the sound they deliver (both acoustic and plugged in) that of course is untrue with the exception of the Celeb line, compared with other manufacturers. We are O's veterans and being middle age men we've enjoyed the golden era of the brand, but young generations have no clue about that. Probably I'm nostalgic, but I would really be pleased Ovation will bring back again both tradition and innovation in their line of acustical guitars. |
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Location: Nashville TN. | I live near where they make them and don't see them in stores. I have seen an New Adamas in a store.
I went to an open mic in Durham Ct with the 1719
Black Custom Legend. The host commented on both the sound and looks of. I came the next week
with a Standard Balladeer LX 12.
The host says "Oh you have an Ovation too"
Ya I had last week too.. He was shocked that 1719
was an Ovation. It was big and no cut away.
He was playing a Celb.
In the begining people bought them because they sounded great, were road worthy few problems,
and you could plug them in. |
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Location: Location Location Location | My '69 1127-4 is my favorite. Cloth bowl, VT-8 bracing. Crisp mids, and bass, not muddied up. Well balanced, and yet projects really well. I keep thinking it's the aged spruce top, but maybe there's something to the bowl material. It might also have something to do with the fact that I spent $700 in restoring it. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I think the rule of thumb is (sorry Al) before you buy new you should look at used. The older ones sound better - that's what started this thread. And let's face it, Ovations do not hold their value very well so used ones are generally a bargin.
Ovation isn't unique in old guitars sounding better than new ones. Play a new D18 recently? Yuck. But I've heard some older ones that I'd trade my whole collection for.
Anyway, there's lots of choices and thank goodness that if you can't find what you want in a store, Al can order it up for you. If if it's something they don't really make standard he can do a custom order for you. Yes, it takes time and money.
Maybe Fender will change things up and start flooding the GC's with high end Legends, Elites and Adamas. Everyone will be able to compare them side by side with Taylor and Martin and once for for all Ovation/Adamas can claim their place at the top of the food chain. People will be fighting over them for acoustic use as well as gigging. Nearly everyone you see on TV, in concert and on LP covers will be playing one. t'wood be a beautiful world.
Toby |
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Location: SoCal | How many times, in the last 7 years, have we been thru this discussion? |
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Location: south east Michigan | Quite a few.
But I don't find it boring at all.
Frustrating at times, but not boring.
Ideas & opinions like this are the backbone of what this site is about.
And who knows.... if we keep posting it someday, maybe, on a longshot, someone with some pull might decide to do something about it.... maybe.... someday. |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | I sat down at 11:30 last evening and played my 1687-7 Adamas I until nearly 1AM in the new year...I have been busy playing other guitars recently (08C, 47RI, 1681-7 AD II) and had not played the 1981 Adamas in a while...I was blown away all over again...I got several of the above mentioned guitars out (not the 47RI) and compared...not even close (although to be fair, the 08C has a different voice and is pleasing in its own way). The AD I has a rumble that you can feel and a tone that is head and shoulders above anything else...One of the best times I have had playing a guitar in some time...this is the guitar I took to Amelia that so many played and that Matt used in his Saturday night concert...
Now, yes, it is a Carbon top and one might argue that a wood top would indeed have a different feel/sound. My 1758-6p has a similar feel and is a wood topped elite from 1989-91...I have played many newer Adamas guitars and few ever came close to the sound and feel of my '81 AD I. (YMMV)
Now I also wanted to add a note about the idea that being able to plug in somehow took away from the acoustic sound and feel of the 70's and 80's Ovations....I owned several over those years and while I did love it that they could be plugged in to a PA and have a great out of the box sound, I also played many gigs that were strictly acoustic: my Pacemaker 12 and later my Elite 1758 more than held their own in that situation...
Sadly, in some respects, things do not remain the same...newer technologies come to light and are integrated into the product line...Ovation has always been at the forefront of that and some have been successful...
Also, from the business end of supply and demand and profit margin, manufacturing was begun overseas...my personal opinion is not material here...many, many Clebs, Pinnacle’s, and Ultra's have been sold...from a business standpoint, that is measured in success.... (and dollars)...
That said, and with the current purchase of the Company by Fender, I personally would like to see the USA models be made and aggressively marketed...at a price point that makes them compatible...
But what do I know...I'm just a middle-aged former Professional Musician who made his living playing what I still say were the very best A/E guitars ever made...
On second thought, I know quite a bit....
Happy New Year... |
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Location: Central Florida | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
How many times, in the last 7 years, have we been thru this discussion? 7 tear old topic… Then this question suggests that perhaps the “problem” really does beg resolution?
Relative newbie 2 cents:
When I started playing again and decided I wanted a real good top shelf acoustic guitar, the top shelf at the places I was shopping was mostly Martin and Taylor. Didn’t know crap about Taylor and I was kinda leaning toward Martin primarily because of their reputation and history. Played some of both but like Gallerinski mentioned in his comment about the D18, there just wasn’t much I heard that convinced me that these guitars, either brand, were worth the money they were asking for them. I mean they sounded better than the Alvarez, Seagulls, and Washburns and stuff hanging on the wall with them, but not really living up to their reputations. In my ears anyway, maybe my expectations were too high?
At any rate I give thanks for the day when a buddy put his ’91 1768 Elite in my care while he remodeled his house. At that point in my musical career, you could argue that I didn’t really know shite about what a high end acoustic guitar should sound like but I sure knew what I liked and THAT was it. The guitar sang quality like nothing I had heard in the stores. And it only got better from there as I discovered my 1537, my 1718, my 1619, and my Adamas 1687s. All “old” and all infinitely better than the top shelf in the stores. WTF?? Credit that to age, credit it to design, credit it to manufacturing methods, I don’t care. But there is something to it.
I’m with Dave on enjoying the unique status of Ovation guitars. I’m a black sheep by nature anyway. And I kinda understand the question that if “Ovation is selling every guitar they produce… …what is the possible motivation to do anything different?” It’s certainly not news that to be competitive these days, manufacturing is likely to wind up wherever the labor costs are cheaper.
So, if there is a motivation to do something different, maybe it could be that it just feels wrong for an American brand this noble, with a history this ballsy, whose roots are based in incredible sounding unplugged acoustic guitars, to fade from that heritage. Not to mention these shores. It would be very cool to see some high end U.S. Ovations and Adamii establish a formidable market presence on the top shelves of the music stores again. It’s not like it hasn’t been done before.
Joe - Would 1911 make a great model number for a new US made Ovation or what!
Otto
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Location: Nashville TN. | Will it be blued chrome nickle or Stainleess
I think the make the 1911 are being made in west Hartford rather than New Hartford |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I've been trying to figure where to weigh in, and I'll try to be as polite as possible.
I don't see (or hear) a "problem" or anything more than guitars that are built today are different than they were built in the 70's and 80's. DUH!!!
Better or worse... OPINION
Bottom line. If you like the sound of an 80's model whatever, Buy one!!! They are out there. If you like the sound of a 2008 whatever model Buy that one!!!
That's it. Nothing to be fixed, no problems to be solved. Just buy the damn guitar you like the sound of, and just as importantly don't buy the guitar you don't like the sound of, and quite bitch'n about what doesn't exist.
There are so so so many reasons why guitars sound different. Aside from the obvious build methods and design changes, you just can't compare an aged guitar with a new one. Even if they were built as identical as possible, with the same materials etc.. they 30 year old one would sound different, even if neither had been played.
So again... if you love the sound of that Early Balladeer... buy one. They are out there. If you love the sound of the '08 Collectors, buy it and enjoy.
It can't get much more simple. We as Ovation enthusiasts have a rare luxury. The guitars we crave are not everyone's cup'o tea. PERFECT!!! MORE FOR US!!! CHEAPER FOR US!!! again.. quitcha-bitch'n :)
Of course I'm just grumpy. When I had some extra $'s I hoped Ovation would come out with one final solid-body. They finally came out with the VXT and I can't even afford to look at one. A VXT in Caramel Burst or maybe '59 Burst... someday... |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Uh... All I was trying to say was that my 30 year-old Glen Campbell Artist sounds Really Nice. :D |
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Location: south east Michigan | Now see what you went & started, OMA??? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
... Bottom line. If you like the sound of an 80's model whatever, Buy one!!! They are out there. If you like the sound of a 2008 whatever model Buy that one!!! That's it. Nothing to be fixed, no problems to be solved. Just buy the damn guitar you like the sound of, and just as importantly don't buy the guitar you don't like the sound of, and quite bitch'n about what doesn't exist ... BINGO. Miles, that's the best summary on this ellusive topic I've ever read. Beautiful. |
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Location: south east Michigan | It is ellusive but we go though the motions, step by step, and for the most part end up with the same conclusion.
To bad it's not the correct demographic but it would have been cool to have one of yesterdays football games be called.... The Ovation Bowl. |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by Slipkid:
The Ovation Bowl. BRILLIANT!!  |
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Location: Utah | Originally posted by Otto:
Would 1911 make a great model number for a new US made Ovation or what! Nah, it would be finicky about what kind of strings you put on it, and it would stop working once in a while for no good reason just when you needed it most. You'd have to send it to a knowledgeable luthier for a $500 or $1k upgrade just to get it to play right!
My vote for a US model number would be 1903 or M1. But then I'm an old fashioned kind of guy. |
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Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?
