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Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?

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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2008-12-30 8:43 PM (#435869)
Subject: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
...And Why don't they make the New ones like the Old ones?

[Brag or Rant? You decide...]

I just got myself a Glen Campbell Artist 1627... (this is the Brag part)
It has cloth-fiber-whatever 'Shallow' bowl.
I haven't side-by-sided it will All my guitars, but it do sound better than the 2171 Contour Bowl.
It almost sounds as good as my faithful 1778T (but in a different sorta way, less bass).
This is the best sounding Shallow-Bowl I have encountered...
Well, it's brother the 1121 with a cloth bowl sounds similar, but now I can only put extra-light strings on it.
You can feel the cloth bowl vibrate against you chest. The straight plastic don't do that.
(This is why I over-paid for my beat-up 1617, it has a cloth bowl also.)

So... If we know that the Old cloth bowls sound better, why don't the still use them?
(Maybe I should be asking the Mothership board of directors, but they ain't here... I don't think)

Yeah, it is 30 years-old with expected wear-n-tear... But if it sounds better than the GS bowl,
Why Change?
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Trader Jim
Posted 2008-12-30 9:01 PM (#435870 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?


Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 7307

Location: South of most, North of few
Cost??? Every guitar sounds different, even O's. Maybe the top came from some of that moon harvested wood. :D
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Mark in Boise
Posted 2008-12-30 9:14 PM (#435871 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?


Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12750

Location: Boise, Idaho
The fantastic sound of my new Balladeer Reissue makes me think it's not the old wood, but the old ways.
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Mr. Ovation
Posted 2008-12-30 9:27 PM (#435872 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7209

Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
Maybe the older guitar has had a chance to open up.
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Beal
Posted 2008-12-30 9:33 PM (#435873 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?



Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127

Location: 6 String Ranch
Glen's mother made them good, it's all been down hill since she left.
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Bernard
Posted 2008-12-30 9:50 PM (#435874 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?


Joined:
April 2007
Posts: 61

Location: Montréal, québec, Canada
I think the more you play your guitar the better the sound gets.

I was told if you stand your guitar with music 24h a day it will be good to.

Boucher guitars in Canada (Québec) are aging guitar tops in a sound room before they build the guitar. I tried a few and .... Great sound !!
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2008-12-30 10:17 PM (#435875 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Yeah, I understand that the top opens-up.
I was referring to the bowl design.

Cloth sounds better.
[Like Mark just said...]
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an4340
Posted 2008-12-30 10:36 PM (#435876 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?


Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389

Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands
I used to think that a guitar like an Adamas just had to sound great from the beginning, because they wouldn't open up. But I swear, mine has gotten better sounding with playing. So there is something to that the more you play stuff, even with composite top.
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Gallerinski
Posted 2008-12-30 11:16 PM (#435877 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996

Location: Phoenix AZ
To me the single thing that doomed Ovations pursuit of quality acoustic sound was the very thing that also brought Ovation success - people plugging in their guitars. At some point in time very few people out there cared or noticed how bad the guitars sounded acoustically. Plugged in they were great and that's what people wanted. Go read the banner at the top of this forum - it says GET PLUGGED IN. What the hell does that tell you! After three decades of that it's hard to change your spots and expect to be considered in the same breath as Martin, Taylor and Collings overnight. They're taking baby steps and maybe someday will really focus on the sound again. But getting buyers to notice will be difficult as hell.

OMA specifically mentions the GC reissue. CLEARLY one of the 2-3 best sounding guitars they have built in the last 25 years. But nobody noticed. They sold like shit. Same thing with the shiny bowl reissues. The best of the best and yet nobody bought the fucking things. Ditto the "Traditional" series. So what the hell is Ovation supposed to do?

Toby
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2008-12-30 11:49 PM (#435878 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
"OMA specifically mentions the GC reissue. CLEARLY one of the 2-3 best sounding guitars they have built in the last 25 years."

Thanx Toby, but mine ain't no steenkin Re-Issue!
Mine is a 1979-ish Original Issue... Stacked knobbies.
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2008-12-31 12:48 AM (#435879 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1553

Location: Indiana
Originally posted by Gallerinski:


OMA specifically mentions the GC reissue. CLEARLY one of the 2-3 best sounding guitars they have built in the last 25 years. But nobody noticed. They sold like shit. Same thing with the shiny bowl reissues. The best of the best and yet nobody bought the fucking things. Ditto the "Traditional" series. So what the hell is Ovation supposed to do?

Toby
I know I sound like a broken record on this issue, but I went to three music stores in the Nashville area today.
All I saw was Celebrity's. Not a single USA made O to be sampled.
Can't/won't sell what isn't available.
I did see Taylor and Martin represented at Best Buy though.
Go figure.
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marenostrum
Posted 2008-12-31 2:25 AM (#435880 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?



Joined:
August 2007
Posts: 1008

Location: Tuscany, Italy
The same here (unfortunaltely), In my region (and I mean Tuscany) there are only 4 big stores. I use to visit all of them quite frequently. In one of them I saw 3 Ovation of the LX series (CL, Balladeer and Elite). No Adamas. Possibly some Celeb. That's all. I was told that WHEN Ovation are lined up along with other brands, they sell well. In ALL stores I did see Martin and Taylor, Gibson ...... represented at their best with lots of model to choose from. So what's the Ovation selling policy ?
For people like us the only source is ebay or sell/purchase guitars among us :) (that's no bad at all...)
OMA I own old and new models and I can feel differences among them but not necessarily in a old vs new comparison the old win ..... to me
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marenostrum
Posted 2008-12-31 3:02 AM (#435881 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?



Joined:
August 2007
Posts: 1008

Location: Tuscany, Italy
OMA, BTW congrats for your new baby !! I like it very much.
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Koenig Kurt
Posted 2008-12-31 5:23 AM (#435882 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?



Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 846

Location: Munich, Germany
Don't think it's the bowl!

It's the bracing: A vs. Scalloped X.

Scalloped X does nothing to me! I'll get or got rid of every "new" scalloped ones.

A new LX Legend compared with the JL3 (everything the same but the bracing and cutaway) - the LX sucks, while the JL3 is the best wood top I have heard so far.

Happy new year,
Kurt
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Slipkid
Posted 2008-12-31 5:48 AM (#435883 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?



Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301

Location: south east Michigan
When playing my '71 Balladeer I can feel the bowl vibrate against my ribs.
No so with the AD-II or the UTE... both deep bowls.
Don't get me wrong... I'm sure most everyone here would prefer the sound of the UTE & AD-II, there is just something about that old bowl material.
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2008-12-31 7:13 AM (#435884 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Originally posted by Koenig Kurt:
Don't think it's the bowl!

It's the bracing: A vs. Scalloped X...

...Happy new year,
Kurt
This one does Not have 'A Bracing' (regardless what the Ovation Archive sez)...

It has some kind of VT Bracing.

:confused:
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Steve
Posted 2008-12-31 8:37 AM (#435885 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?


Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 1900

Arthur, then there must be an ideal 'bracing & bowl & depth' combination. I like the older O's for the same reason. They were heavier perhaps, but that's no big deal.
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Gallerinski
Posted 2008-12-31 9:09 AM (#435886 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996

Location: Phoenix AZ
Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
Thanx Toby, but mine ain't no steenkin Re-Issue!
Mine is a 1979-ish Original Issue... Stacked knobbies.
My mistake, but the story line is more of less the same. The old ones sound good because that's what they were designed to do. 80's-90's Ovations were designed to something else (plug in).
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Mark in Boise
Posted 2008-12-31 10:39 AM (#435887 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?


Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12750

Location: Boise, Idaho
I agree with Dave. In fact, that's what I was trying to say when he confused me with OMA. I sold my 99 and got the Balladeer Reissue. The looks of the 99 is outstanding and the guy who bought it liked the Optima preamp. He records all the time. But if you take off the headphones and listen to the guitars on their own, the Balladeer wins hands down. When they made them to sound good acoustically, they did. Plugging in was a distraction, but that's what the buying public wanted.
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Slipkid
Posted 2008-12-31 10:51 AM (#435888 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?



Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301

Location: south east Michigan
Some good insight there Dave. You make a lot of sense.
Rumor has it that you are up the the part of the truth speaking townsperson in "The Emperors New Clothes". This of course after being soundly rejected for the part of Emperor.
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PEZ
Posted 2008-12-31 3:49 PM (#435889 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?



Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111

Location: Nashville TN.
Originally posted by Gallerinski:
To me the single thing that doomed Ovations pursuit of quality acoustic sound was the very thing that also brought Ovation success - people plugging in their guitars. At some point in time very few people out there cared or noticed how bad the guitars sounded acoustically. Plugged in they were great and that's what people wanted. Go read the banner at the top of this forum - it says GET PLUGGED IN. What the hell does that tell you! After three decades of that it's hard to change your spots and expect to be considered in the same breath as Martin, Taylor and Collings overnight. They're taking baby steps and maybe someday will really focus on the sound again. But getting buyers to notice will be difficult as hell.

OMA specifically mentions the GC reissue. CLEARLY one of the 2-3 best sounding guitars they have built in the last 25 years. But nobody noticed. They sold like shit. Same thing with the shiny bowl reissues. The best of the best and yet nobody bought the fucking things. Ditto the "Traditional" series. So what the hell is Ovation supposed to do?

Toby
None of them being stocked in stores.
Thats why they are not selling.

Plus the EXP string sound 1/2 dead when they are new.

The Ovation designs with deep bowls
can be some of the best sounding guitars out there.
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PEZ
Posted 2008-12-31 4:50 PM (#435890 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?



Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111

Location: Nashville TN.
Originally posted by Gallerinski:
Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
Thanx Toby, but mine ain't no steenkin Re-Issue!
Mine is a 1979-ish Original Issue... Stacked knobbies.
My mistake, but the story line is more of less the same. The old ones sound good because that's what they were designed to do. 80's-90's Ovations were designed to something else (plug in).
There really no reason why you can't do both.
The 1970's models did do both.
As did a lot of the 1980s models.

Somewhere along the long that got lost.
All you saw super shallow and marketing at people
who were not primarily acoustic players.
The deep no cuts went away.
Products were all all the hot new thing.
Tradition was lost.

Martin clung to tradition and was almost went out of business in the early 80s. (primarilly by rise of Ovation)
Ovation was big on inovacation and great things started to happen. Some of the stuff that worked well got left behind.

See you need to do both inovation and tradition.
Not one or the other.

Think about how many of the Ovations you really treasure are recent ones???

How many of us who have a Pacemaker don't treasure it??? Now imagine one with modern electronics.
It would be a killer guitar.

Unfortunately cutting model chooses is not going to help.

They need to solve thier dealer problem.
Get these into stores
They need get these guitars in major pro players hands again. Metal band are not going to do that.
You need get people play acoustic as a living; alt, Rock, Country, Folk rock etc,
Go back and look what worked in the past.
Way way to many people think Celberty *IS* Ovation sounds like. People need to be reminded Ovation was the Guitar of the Stars litterly.
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PEZ
Posted 2008-12-31 6:59 PM (#435891 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?



Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111

Location: Nashville TN.
another thing is reminding people how many classic were recorded using Ovations.
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Gallerinski
Posted 2008-12-31 11:31 PM (#435892 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996

Location: Phoenix AZ
As far as I know Ovation is selling every single guitar they produce. It's not like they are running the factory at partial capacity. So again, what is the possible motivation for Ovation to do anything different? Obviously their current formula is working.
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Joe Rotax
Posted 2008-12-31 11:54 PM (#435893 - in reply to #435869)
Subject: Re: Why do Old Ovations sound better than New Ovations?


Joined:
February 2008
Posts: 747

Maybe they sell all their guitars but how good is their formula if I live in a major commercial part of North America and I've never seen an Adamas or any other high end Ovation in a music store of which we have many. All they have is those $300 offshore things that don't sound good.
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