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Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 3
Location: Germany | Hi there,
I'm new here, so hello to everybody! I hope this is the right place for my post...
I consider buying a 2050T from the elite T series, but in German stores there are only 2058TX-5 Ovations available. Is there any difference between those models? If so, which ones?
Thanks for your help!
Cheers
sqril |
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Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Welcome to the Ovation Nation!
I would assume the 'TX' is scalloped X bracing and the 'T' is modified quintad braced.
Hopefully you can get a more definitive answer. |
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Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | Well, I'm thinkin the -5 is a black guitar. As far as the T vs TX, I don't have a clue.
Oh, and welcome! |
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Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | The cynic in me says that the new TX series are Asian made, not from the US factory. The Ovation website has been cleverly updated to remove the distinction between the US models and models made elsewhere. The TX and AX monikers appeared after the announcement that US production of the particular models had ceased. |
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Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | bobbo,
I also thought of the X for export. But I went to the 'O' site and noted the diff twix the 2078T and the TX.  |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Someone also pointed-out that the TX models have Rosewood fretboards...
So I'll say it...
The "X" is for cheaper import...
They have rosewood fingerboards and the same X bracing as all the other stuff made at the Korean factory. They also have the same OP-Pro pre-amp as all the Balladeers and Elites being made over there.
Get yourself a nice used USA 1778T with the quintad bracing and the OP-30...
That was the original model that made the T famous.
Go for the Gusto and stick with the Original! :D |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Oh! They're heeere... And I've got proof!
The first of the Factory Reject \'USED\' Korean TX\'s have already Arrived!
Hell, that didn't take long... Huh? :p |
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Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 3
Location: Germany | Thanks for your prompt replies!
Before posting here I read a review on the 2058T (USA-made) at ultimate-guitar
That sounded like the thing I want. It was a good idea to ask here about the "small" difference in naming *g*
Perhaps I should ask in the "for sale" Board for a USA-made 12-string, deep body for not more than 500 Euros and shipped to Germany... |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Good Luck on your search Sqril...
I got my 2058T and the 2078CK during the "Fender-Just-Bought-Us" Sale.
One thing that I just noticed, at least with the 2078TX, is how the neck is made differently.
The neck on the TX is one slab of wood, with the heel added on (like a Celebrity)...
Whereas the correct way that a USA T's neck is made is two pieces of wood joined lengthwise.
You cannot see any 'line' or seam where a chunk of wood was added for the heel.
Ever since they announced that the New T's would be made in Korea we have been wondering if it would be the same Guitar. I have not played any of them yet, so I cannot tell anything about the sound. But I have noticed the little cost-cutting measures like this neck construction.
Also, I am not Positive, but I don't believe that the 2078TX has a Truss Rod Cover. :mad:
It might be a crappy photo, but usually I can see the single screw on a T. |
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Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | So we know the neck has none of the "New Neck" features we get from USA models.
Also notice the Ping tuners they use are lesser quality than the USA models. I was already disapointed when they stopped using Schallers (though I could understand the cost-saving effort).
There is a saying: "There is nothing sold which a man can't make more cheaply and sell for less, and the person who considers PRICE ONLY is this man's legal prey."
I am now very glad I've been unable to sell my Sweetwater T. There's a big difference between it and what I see here.
John <>{ |
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Joined:
October 2008
Posts: 639
Location: NW of Philadelphia | Here is a comparison between the "T" and "TX" using the 2078 Model, taken right from O's website. Italics - Maybe different Definitely different
Model 2078 TX
6 String Acoustic / Electric
Body Type: Deep Contour
Top: AA Solid Spruce
Bracing: Scalloped X
Scale Length: 25 1/4"
Fretboard: Rosewood w/Black Stain
Fret Inlay: None
Bridge: Rosewood w/Black Stain
Rosette: Multi-Soundhole Bass Side
Pickup:
Nutwidth: 1 11/16"
Machines: Black Ovation
Case: 8158-0
Model 2078T
6 String Acoustic / Electric
Body Type: Deep Contour
Top: Solid Spruce
Bracing: Quintad
Scale Length: 25 1/4"
Fretboard: Ebony
Fret Inlay: None
Bridge: Ebony
Rosette: Multi Soundhole 11 hole configuration - bass side
Pickup: Ovation Thinline
Nutwidth: 1 11/16"
Machines: Black
Case: 8158-0
I agree with OMA, get an USA made "T". |
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Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | I have yet to find a definitive answer to which of those middle-level models are truly, totally made in the USA. It may be a moving target. It seems that the Legends and above are still USA made, for now(?) Some retailers (NOT including those participating here on the board) advertise new "US model" Ovations (Balladeers, etc.) that I suspect are not actually made in the US, based on the clues floating around here at the OFC. (or else there are still a lot of the last US-made ones unsold so far?) The plot thickens if some models have parts made overseas and are assembled in the US, is that USA made?
Does anyone know? Is it a secret? Could you PM me if you have a clue?
I am not really sure what advantage it is to Ovation to muddy the waters. There is such a strong desire for US models that I would think they'd prefer to sell a larger percentage of the more expensive (and profitable) models, rather than the imports, unless the cost of producing the imports is SO much lower that it actually makes them just as profitable, even at a lower price point, than some of the US models? I guess that's possible…
Meanwhile, you can't walk into a store anywhere near me and play anything better than a Celebrity. (Yet they carry plenty of $2,500+ Martin's) Those of us here are already converts, but anyone who has never played an Adamas may be judging all Ovations by the only ones they can pick up in a store (a Celebrity or Applause.) I don't think you can get them to buy a better Ovation if they can't try a better Ovation, so they are unlikely to come here or order their first Ovation on the internet.
I wonder if we won't find only Adamas' made in the US in a year or two and all Ovations being made overseas? At least then we'd know the difference…
my 2¢
-standing- |
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February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | Unfortunately...and inevitably I suppose, people are accepting "made in China, Korea, etc." guitars. I don't think there's anything we can do about it.
What bothers me is when companies like Fender spec guitars with cost-cutting "features" that will not likely be noticed by the masses. An old-school 1pc Nato neck is not going to be noticed by most buyers...and can be made for less money than the new Ovation necks. A teenager looking for a $300 guitar sees "die cast" tuners on the list, but doesn't know the difference between Schallers, regular Pings, or the bottom-end Pings on the Korean guitars. The neck joint on our USA O's doesn't look any different from the glued-in mortice-and-tenon crap neck joint on the imports.
The big trouble with all this downward slide is this: after a while the market for the better product dries up as people get used to buying shit. Then it becomes impossible to buy the superior product. There will still be some who can tell the difference between a $1,700 Custom Elite and a Celebrity with a fake Abalone strip around it. But there will not be enough of us to keep the Connecticut factory running. Fender knows all this, but I doubt it matters to them; they've got their eyes on the money.
John <>{ |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Ah, standing, standing, standing....
The debate about what is, will be, and was USA made is a relativley new debate. However, the last 2/3 of your post is an OFC rite of passage and you've made sooner than most. You have stated very clearly what many of us agree with. It boils down to "marketing" which on many levels is very frustrating for us. |
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May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Who cares where it's made?
Do you like the sound, do you like the way it plays, does it appear well made, does it have a good warranty, does it stay in tune, intonated well, good setup, quality electronics, good value ???
THAT's the stuff that matters. Get over the specs and where the hell it's made and focus on the instrument. That's what you're paying for.
Toby |
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October 2005
Posts: 4025
Location: Utah | Originally posted by standing:
you can get them to buy a better Ovation if they can't try a better Ovation Nicely distilled to the essence. |
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Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | You know, we all assume the WE know what Ovation should do, or what their marketing strategy should be.
But maybe Ovation knows exactly what they are doing, and it's not their ambition to flood stores with USA models. Just guessing here, but maybe their strategy is to feed off the high volume low cost import models and dominate the $500-$750 range and leave the rest for someone else. Offer a few USA and Adamas models for those willing to seek them out, but recognize that this isn't their bread and butter.
Sure as FANS (and that's what we are) it pains us to see this becuase we think that if every potential buyer could be able to walk into a shop and A/B a Custom Legend vs. a Martin D18, they would choose for the Ovation because we fans think it's a better guitar.
But keep in mind that the lack of USA Ovations in the shops is not an Ovation marketing decision. It's the SHOPS who decide what to stock, what to invest their inventory money in. Weather it's a big box like GC, or a mail order MF or AMS, or your local shop I don't believe these store buyers are dumb. They have long histories of knowing what sells and what does not. Inventory turns and margin are the key metrics. Like it or not, GC stocks $600 Celebrities and $2000 Martins for good, and very well thought out reason.
If you as a fan want to see more USA ovations in your local shop than complain to the SHOP. It's their problem and their decision. It's NOT and Ovation marketing issue.
Now, what you CAN do, is support your local shop. IF they are willing to stock some of the USA models we desire then we better be prepared to support them buy giving them our business. I suspect that many of us want our local shops to stock these guitars so we can test them out, only to then go online looking for the cheapest deal. Would you buy an in stock Adamas at your local shop if you could buy the same guitar mail order for $300. less ???
Sorry for the rant. |
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December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | Gallerinski, you are absolutely correct, if you like the sound, feel, appearance and price, buy it on the spot.
However, I was thinking of those (like me a couple of months ago) who are not members of this board, who can't find any better Ovations locally and have to order online/mail-order for lack of any local option. They have no opportunity to try any remotely-similar guitar first. Sadly, the only criteria you can use in that case are reputation, reviews, recommendations and ultimately the specs.
I know that I tried many Celebrities locally and found them disappointing. I am near Houston, so there are plenty of large music stores around, yet there was nothing else to try but Celebrities (or Applause) around here. In my case, I already knew that my old Balladeer was a great guitar and far superior to those Celebrities, so I'm already in the choir. But, if I was not already an Ovation owner, I probably would have written them off as undesirable and looked at other brands.
Experience and research (and the beginning of this thread) tells me that the Asian-made Ovations are inferior to the USA-made ones. Most here seem to agree. If I order a new Ovation model that I have never had the opportunity to play, I would feel much safer ordering a USA-made model. Doesn't that make sense?
FlySig: I meant to type:
"you can't get them to BUY a better Ovation if they can't TRY a better Ovation."
I guess I left out a "'t" the first time and that made that statement confusing… sorry.
thanks,
-standing- |
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Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Again, it's a DEALER problem, not an OVATION problem. Next time you go to your local shop explain that you are interested in a higher end USA Ovation and ask them why the don't stock any.
I'm 99% sure that they won't say it's because Ovation won't supply them, or that Ovation Marketing does not promote them.
Keep in mind that WE are not the customers of Ovation, the dealers and shops are. Now it IS a little bit of a circle-feed. By and large Ovations customers (the dealers) buy the lower end stuff. So to keep this food chain healthy that's where Ovation puts a lot of their focus. At last years NAMM show, the displayed ratio of import celebs, applause and ultras to USA models was about 10 to 1. This show is where Ovations customers (the dealers) "shop". The big question - do Ovations dealers buy mostly Celebs because that's what they're shown at the show? Or does Ovation show mostly the lower end stuff because that's what they know the dealers want and will buy?
To their credit, Taylor and Martin (and others) have somehow created a means that the buying public demands products from the very bottom to the very top of their lines and the dealers stock their showrooms accordingly. Don't blame Ovation, blame your local dealers.
I'm getting a headache ... |
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September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | At my local acoustic shop, the proprietor once told me that he had to buy X number of units to remain an Authorized Ovation Dealer.
Earlier last year he told me that he ordered 14 Ovations (don't know which models) and he when he sold them All, so he ordered more. (T's mostly and a couple of Adamii)
Understand that when the Shop orders their Ovations, they decide which models to order. Now, they may decide to order a bunch of Celebrities on a cost/profit analysis, then discover people don't buy them... Or even order USA models and not have them sell. This may be because the chose the wrong model or ugly color.
If they buy a dozen O's, and they don't sell cuz they are the wrong color, this may put-off the Shop from making such a high-dollar investment again.
So like The Man just said... It is the Dealer's decision.
BTW- When the Apple Music guy sold all those Ovations, they were mostly Elite T's...
You cannot go wrong with basic Black! :cool:
[I don't know if he will have the same result with the Korean T's out now. :confused: ] |
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Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 3
Location: Germany | I just got myself a Standard Balladeer 1711 from private today, and i already love it ;)
To add a little to the discussion here, for me as a guitar learner it was important to get a guitar that I will have fun to play with, and still like the sound of in a few years. Not having developed the hearing necessary, I have to rely to a great part on the reputation that guitar/brand has. I like the sound of Os when friends of mine play them, so that's why I wanted an O - but all those Os were USA made, in a plant that has a tradition and accumulated a lot of expertise in making guitars.
For the asia-produced models, I don't know about the plants they're made in. For all I know, they might have produced tires or something before. I think it's a difference, whether the person who makes my guitar has done so for 10 years (or works in an environment that holds that kind of experience) or not. There is only so much you can convey with production specs.
I think it wouldn't be that much a problem for me if I knew something about the plants asian made Os are produced in. But I got the impression that information is a little obscured. Perhaps I just didn't do my homework and try to find out...
Anyway, that's just mho, and I'm just a rookie. However, I'd like to thank you again for sharing your thoughts. Without finding this forum, I'd still be confused about a lot of things, and perhaps I would have experienced a postpurchase dissonance (as I think marketing people call it).
Again, all of this is just my humble opinion. And now I'll shut up and play my guitar ;) |
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December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | Congratulations, IMHO you made an excellent choice.
Friends' recommendations are probably the best route of all, especially if they are more experienced players.
BTW, I think it's also called postdecision dissonance, I haven't found many guitar players who have heard of that term ;-)
-standing- |
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are 2058T and 2058TX-5 identical?
