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Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | (Sorry, for the dumb questions, I couldn't find answers in the archive, perhaps there's a FAQ somewhere?)
It seems that a lot of guitars change hands among members, if it's not an even trade, how do you handle the payments? Does everyone here use PayPal for that purpose? What percentage does PayPal charge for those transactions?
I have always had and aversion to PayPal and EBay. I gave up on registering for an Ebay account when they wanted to know more personal information than the IRS. I had a PayPal account a long time ago, but, back then, it did not work too smoothly, so I just gave up.
I have never felt enough of a need to put up with either of them. However, now that the O-addiction is kicking in full gear, I sometimes can't resist checking out the EBay ads when they are mentioned here…
So, do I need to bite the bullet and get Ebay and Paypal accounts to survive the OFC? Does anyone have any advice on using them? It appears that you need a reasonable number of transactions to participate in many EBay auctions? How do you ever get the first ten (or whatever) transactions if you can't buy anything without the minimum number of transactions? Seems like a chicken and egg thing. Do you just go buy a bunch of cheap junk (Taylors?) to get a history going? How difficult is it to get help from EBay/Paypal if you receive an item that is not "as advertised?" or have other problems with a seller/purchaser. What kind of protection do they offer?
I've gathered from the archives that EBay makes their money by charging a percentage fee on all sales? Are there fees for buyers, too? Are there Paypal fees on top of the EBay fees also?
I'm sure many of those questions are answered on the EBay/PayPal sites, but I suspect that members here can better boil it down to simple terms that even I can understand?
…and while I'm asking, has anyone ever written up a FAQ on the proper preparation and methods for packing and shipping a guitar?
Thanks in advance for any advice anyone can offer… |
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Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | I've been using eBay since it's infancy. PP took a little longer. I love using PP to buy and hate it to sell. But when selling I adjust my prices to cover it.
I like the idea of instant payment. This grasshopper has little patience... :D |
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Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | Ebay sells lots of real cheap stuff, like mobile phone covers, guitar strings, CDs etc., which won't have restrictions on who can bid. You could probably get to 10 transactions for less than $100 total if you really wanted. |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | If you realize it's limitations and quirks, Ebay & PayPal are very useful. It's very good for finding little trinkets that you'd never find at a shopping mall.
I started off by builting up my street cred with small transactions.
The biggest thing I ever sold on ebay was a $250 guitar. I did purchase a $1300 guitar from a stranger. That was a couple years ago. I don't know if I'd buy a big ticket item like that now.
"Let the buyer beware", is the mantra you have to keep in mind. |
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Joined:
June 2005
Posts: 1320
Location: Round Rock, TX | Neither eBay nor PayPal charge fees to buyers. Both charge fees to the sellers. The advantage to the sellers is that you get a global marketplace for your items. The advantage to buyers is that you get a tremendous amount of stuff to choose from. The reason eBay wants all that info is so they can collect their fees if you sell something (and, of course, they'll need it when they take over the world).
TAFKAR's right. There is a ton of cheap stuff. I particularly look at CD's, DVD's, guitar straps and hawaiian shirts. I don't know of any store on or offline that has the selection of almost anything that eBay has. I've certainly never been in a store that has the selection of guitars, especially O's, that eBay has.
Edit:
Of my 14 guitars, seven came off eBay. I paid between $800 and $2200 for each of them. And everyone of them is a keeper. I've also bought some I didn't keep, but not because the guitar was bad - it just didn't fit me. Just look for sellers with over 100 feedbacks with over 98% feedback. And read the feedback. See what the seller got dinged for and how long ago. |
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Joined:
October 2007
Posts: 2711
Location: Vernon CT | Standing,
I have never bought or sold anything on Ebay. I do however have an acct for both E-bay and Paypal. I have dealt with 2 members on this site. 1 bought a guitar from me (Trader Jim)
and the other I bought a guitar for and shipped it down to him (2ifbyC). I did not hesitate to send the guitars before I had their "money". There is something, atleast to me, that is so damn trusting of this group that I knew it was safe to do. So if you buy or sell something from/to a member here, I am pretty sure working out a verbal and proceeding b/4 actual "payment" will be good enough . Only MHO! :) |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | You don't really need that much Vital information to open an eBay account as a Buyer...
Any you can just pay with your credit card through PayPal.
(if you don't want to open a PayPal account, which requires much more information)
As far as getting points, go buy a bunch of Guitar Strings one pack at a time and Picks.
Generally you can find "Buy It Now" guitar strings with free shipping that are still cheaper than getting them at your local music shop.
As far as selling on evilBay, that is a whole nuther animal.
They wanted me to have more than 100 feedback points or to put me through more dudu as a seller...
So I bought a bunch of strings, a real nice rifle-sling guitar-strap and suddenly I was at 100 points.
But if you have a credit card, and the item is "Buy It Now", nobody cares how many FB points you got.
As much as evilBay sux, it is really handy to grab "That Guitar" from the other coast. |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Also... I would NEVER sign up for the "service" that gives them direct access to my bank account. Never. |
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Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 1017
Location: Budd Lake, NJ | I probably qualify to be the board "dinosaur," because I am technologically-challenged on all levels. I don't have PayPal or eBay accounts, and probably won't. I don't have a lot of wonderful stuff to unload, and the guitars pretty much live here for good after I get them (with a few very rare exceptions.) I've had two pretty rotten experiences with buying or ordering guitars "sight unseen," so I would only buy or sell through the folks here.
(Now if I were like the ol' Trader, that would be a different story..... ;) )
So, you may think you're all alone, but you're not.....
--Karen |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I Deal(and will continue t'do so) with Neither. |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | I don't even have a checkbook. I wrote a check for a guitar case the other night and screwed it up, because I probably only write 6 checks a year.
I use my daughter's ebay account. I think the only thing I've bought with it is guitars. Her account probably shows some pretty wierd transactions, like makeup, purses and Ovations.
I finally figured how to use Paypal so I could send cash for guitars for a couple of board members. That goes through my wife's account. Before that I sent cash in an envelope.
It's good to see that Cliff and Karen might be more stubborn than I am. |
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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4026
Location: Utah | I dislike PP. eBay as a seller is too expensive and they force you into PP, though you can state in your auction that you won't take it.
I've bought several guitars and some other stuff via this forum and the Hamer forum. I feel quite comfortable dealing with a member who has a long history on the forum. One guitar I bought from a new member here who disappeared immediately after the sale, but the deal was great in all ways.
As far as buying expensive stuff, a lot of sellers now want Postal Money Orders. The seller can take it to the post office and get his/her cash on the spot, thus negating the problems of fraud with other payment forms, including PP. Any sale I make to a non-member of a place like this will require cash or postal money order, or they wait several weeks to be sure their payment doesn't bounce.
eBay is a great place to find stuff, but you can find deals just as good on new stuff elsewhere from established vendors if you are worried about fraud.
For used stuff, Craigslist or another local web classified service is a good option. You can see the item before purchas if you are a buyer, and you can get cash in hand if you are the seller.
When buying new these days I prefer to buy locally to support the local economy. I'd rather pay an extra couple of dollars and keep the locals employed. Plus it is fun to browse the guitar store and then go home with a new set of strings immediately. |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I just picked up a DVD of the movie JEREMIAH JOHNSON for my son. $4.99 plus $3.00 shipping.
Found it and paid for it in less time that it would take to go out & start the car.
And if e-bay creeps you out there is always Amazon.
A little OT:... Chevy dealer wanted $475 for the blinker/wiper/cruise control arm off the steering column. Search, search... click, click.. $139 to my door.
Ya know.. the internet is meant for more than just the OFC. |
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Joined:
February 2008
Posts: 747
| I have never used PayPal or EBay and, at this time, I have no intention of doing so. |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | ". . It's good to see that Cliff and Karen might be more stubborn than I am . ."
It's not stubborness.
Both entities f@cked me over once.
Neither will EVER see any business from me.
I'd LURVE t'see 'em BOTH "GoUnder" in th'Recession, but that'll never happen . . .
(don't even get me started on WalMart) |
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Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 1900
| If Ebay can compel all their sellers to have a Paypal account, then I will never be one of their sellers. I'm sure they will give me all their legal-eeze excuses, but I still consider that nonsense an illegal monopoly..
(yes, I'm sure ebay couldn't care less..) |
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Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 367
Location: Eaton, Indiana | I was on e-bay for a while. I followed all of the safety rules but still had my identity stolen twice. I was charged multiple fees for selling high end sports vehicles and motorcycles. It took 2 months to get things all straightened out with e-bay and the angry people who were calling my house.
Also, I had sent payment on two different guitars which were never received. Had to once again, fight the system to get my money back.
NEVER AGAIN!!!
Scott Lamperd B C (before computers) |
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Joined:
October 2007
Posts: 283
Location: Portland, OR | I've done ebay for several years and have PP. PP is an expense for sellers of course and most of the volume folks just consider it overhead. Some sellers won't take it some require it. The only time I got hurt on ebay was when I didn't follow the rules, bought a fairly expensive piece of jewelry for my daughter's wedding from a guy that I figured didn't know what he had and who had a low number of transactions, pulled the trigger on an impulse. Violated 3 rules: If it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't, don't deal with a guy with low numbers and do your research. Turns out he didn't have the item and it took me months to get most of my money back. Many threats and nasty emails.
PP works for me but the main thing is knowing who you're dealing with. That's why dealing with folks here works. You're dealing with knowledgeable people who will treat you like they would want to be treated. The guitar I bought here was paid for through PP. I don't know if they charge the recipient a fee in that situation or not since it wasn't an ebay thing. |
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Joined:
March 2007
Posts: 840
Location: CA | I'm surprised at these responses. It seems to me that you give away much more information to get a credit card than you do to get PayPal. And then you buy stuff with the credit card at, what, 15-22% interest? But you won't do PayPal?
I've done both eBay and PayPal for years. Sure, I've had a few bad experiences with eBay. As Sligoman pointed out, it was usually because I either broke some rules or once 'trusted' someone to send a $40 item BEFORE I had sent payment. My bads, not eBay's. And I did have my identity on the site tampered with once. Ebay contacted ME about it, not the other way around. And it was all straightened out in a few days with no damage to me or my bank account. Once you're around the site awhile and know how the rules (and various scams that look official but are not), it's a very comfortable fit. IMHO of course.
I think both eBay and PP offer wonderful resources, services and tools to get a huge variety of items at great prices. As someone else mentioned, car parts alone are worth the price of admission. I fiddle with old cars and have literally saved thousands of dollars buying OEM parts for pennies on the dollar over what I'd pay at a dealership.
I've also bought several Ovations via eBay/PayPal. Although I have to say my most pleasant Ovation transaction was through this forum (thanks again Capt. LH). As BT717 said, the level of trust here is really amazing. |
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Joined:
March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | I won't buy a guitar that I can't play first, so I have never done Ebay, nor have I ever bought from any other dealer on-line. I can't do pay pal because I don't have a credit card. I never have. (Talk about a dinosaur!) I have always figured that if I can't afford it, I don't need it. I have never had a charge account at a store. I don't exist according to the credit bureaus, and that's fine with me! |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Been with eBay and PayPal pretty much since the beginning 10 years ago, got into PayPal when it started.
As a buyer it has provided the avenue to buy well over 100 guitars. In fact of all the guitars I have, maybe 15 came from other than eBay. Many would never have been found if not for eBay. Also as a buyer, in more recent years I have learned to check eBay first for ANYTHING I want to buy. On many occasions eBay is NOT the least expensive. Over the Holidays I bought some computer memory and recently some cell phone accessories, and both were cheaper or from better sources off eBay. But that's not usually the case.
In fact the only time I go to the store for other than food, is around the holidays, and if someone is having a sale on something I want, when I want it. Other than that, I may go shopping, but it's just for kicks. I gave up on stores a long time ago. They don't have my size, they have limited brands, etc etc. Even music stores I find so limited. Nice to browse, but I'll just take that research and go buy online.
As a seller in 10 years I went from clearing the attic so-to-speak to pay for guitars, to almost three years ago when it became our full time only source of income, and was so for about 2.5 years.
I have sold everything from items in the $5K to $10K range like Guitars, a Car, a couple of Motorcycles, engraving machine, to items around $1.00 like little plastic baubles from Cracker Jack and just about everything in between.
When the economy tanked Lisa and I both had to get other jobs to supplement, but that's fine.
For PayPal, as a seller I essentially do not take any other form of Payment. I have on occasion, and I used to at first, but more times than not it was a hassle. I love getting notes regarding rare items.."I would buy it now if you took a Money Order, you lost a sale buddy" or other less polite messages to which I usually respond, "thank you, but it appears I just lost you as a customer because someone else just happily paid for the item. Have a nice day"
PayPal as a buyer... WONDERFUL. Until the US starts using services like the ones available in Europe to process credit cards, I will rarely if ever use a credit card online. Not to mention the Instant Gratification. If someone doesn't take PayPal for an Item I want, I ask them if they will. Sometimes they just prefer to not use it, although that has changed on eBay it's all but required. Elsewhere if they don't take PayPal, I just look for someone selling what I want that does. And guess what, I always find one.
I too am like Mark when it comes to checks. I think I wrote 3 last year. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Standing... to answer your question, which I guess several of us did not...
NO you do not need either here. As members of this dysfunctional family, those of us who buy'n sell bend our "rules" when it comes to people on the OFC. Bottom line, if a member has something for sale and you are interested. Contact them. |
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Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | Well thanks for all the input. I'm not working on any particular sale or purchase, I was just curious how you all handled it for future reference. If you can log in here for 7 consecutive days and not be tempted to buy something at least once, you probably don't really belong here ;-)
I have been a member of the OFC for only about a month, and it already feels like I've found a reunion of great old friends that just never met the first time around.
However, I would certainly not expect anyone here to send me anything without payment up-front until I have been around much longer and have met some of you in person and earned the trust of the OFC. I certainly wouldn't be insulted if a member asked for a payment via PayPal before they shipped me a valuable guitar. Likewise, I would not make a payment or send an item to anyone unless I was pretty sure that the seller was up and up, and I would actually get what I expected. (That can be checked out here pretty easily.)
Does PayPal help you if you feel that you were deceived by the seller, or never receive the items? EBay?
When dealing with other OFC members, do you have to have an established PayPal account to make a payment or can you make a "one-time" payment on a credit card without setting up an "official" PayPal account? (Like you would with any retailer.) If you need to register with PayPal, it would probably be better to do it in advance, as distasteful as that is to some of us.
I hesitate to even bring this up but; there is also the harsh reality of this being a fairly open forum where anyone can lurk, and membership is basically open. I am naturally paranoid anyway; I am reluctant to reveal too much personal information on my profile, since anyone can access it. (It's amazing how many people were born on New Year's Day ;-) There are bound to be at least a few folks cruising through here who don't have the same objectives and honorable intentions as most of the members. Only time and contacts can establish a members creds…
The OFC is very successful and respected. (insert your own wise-crack here ;-) Almost any path on the internet that you search for information on Ovation guitars will eventually lead right here to the OFC. That's great, but it also means that non-fans may end up here researching &/or trying to sell Ovations they "inherited" or for other nefarious reasons.
These issues are part of internet life, I guess. They don't seem to bother anyone under 30, but some of us are a tad beyond that ;-) |
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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 5327
Location: Cicero, NY | For the 'bay and PP experiences, you've got a few here, including the honorable Mr. O, who can probably tell you all you need to know and more but as far as buying and selling amongst ourselves, I think you're on the right path. Stick around, attend a function or two and get some history behind you here. Then buy and sell as you're comfortable. The OFC isn't immune to a deal or two gone bad but most here are very respectable and have gone out of their way to make sure there's full disclosure and, should something go awry, make it right. Welcome aboard. |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I hesitate to even bring this up but; there is also the harsh reality of this being a fairly open forum where anyone can lurk, and membership is basically open. Be aware that the feedback on the OFC would not be 100%. There has been a raskel or two... but no more that two.
I am naturally paranoid anyway; I am reluctant to reveal too much personal information on my profile, since anyone can access it. Until recently when I found out how many hits this board get every month I had not given a second thought what basic personal info I have posted here. So I'm probably the test case. If something happens, I'll let you know.
And PayPal works out great for our yearly OFC calendar sale (you just missed it standing). But we still to accept checks also. |
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AM I the last person on earth without EBay/PayPal accounts?
