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Location: Phoenix | Sure, I knew about the analog TV phaseout in a couple of weeks.
What I didn't know: the FCC is reallocating part of the frequency spectrum in the 700 mhz range as well. That's the frequency range of many of our UHF wireless units. We might set up for a gig, then suddenly in mid-set listen to an ambulance driver through the PA...
I have two Sennheiser units, close to $500 invested, that are now going to be useless (they don't qualify for the Sennheiser rebate program). Needless to say I am suddenly not a happy camper. :mad: |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | T.A.R.P.!!! "Everyone deserves a bailout..." :rolleyes:
Oops, forgot...  |
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| Who gave the FCC control of UHF anyway?.. next thing you know they'll be telling us what to believe and who to vote for..( :rolleyes: ) I think you should get a tax deduction for the $500 loss..there's probably a slick accountant somewhere who could figure that one out..(seriously) |
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Location: Scotland | As I indicated in the other thread about this, it's just the start. Pretty soon it'll be global and the entire entertainment and broadcast industries will be able to fill several huge landfills will obsolete and illegal wireless gear. |
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Location: Phoenix | Sorry, didn't realize there was another thread... |
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| Really! I just bought some wireless ear monitors, that will be interesting on stage.
G@ddammi! music equipment is expensive. |
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| Well, it solves a problem for me. I have all sorts of wireless gear that I haven't used since I played in bands. As a solo or in a small group, where the hell am I gonna go on stage? But I've been saving this stuff just in case Timothy B. Schmidt has a heart attack and Don or Glenn call me to fill in. Now I can just throw the crap out. |
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Location: Agawam MA | I just talked to Shure technical support. They said that any of their current units or units manufactured in the last 3 years are all OK. They broadcast in the <700Mhz range. They did have some older units UA and UB that did broadcast in the 7-800Mhz range. |
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Location: Scotland | Ask them how long they'll be OK for, and tie them down to how many years or months, and get it in writing, or at least record the phone call. It's all going to be useless sooner or later, and the sound reinforcement professionals I know tell me it's gonna be sooner. There have been articles about this in the concert sound trade-press for at least the last 18 months. It's going to happen, and no current equipment will escape. |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Relax, congress gave it three more months of life today...yea... |
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Location: Indiana | Originally posted by Steve:
Who gave the FCC control of UHF anyway?.. next thing you know they'll be telling us what to believe and who to vote for..( :rolleyes: ) I think you should get a tax deduction for the $500 loss..there's probably a slick accountant somewhere who could figure that one out..(seriously) First off, anybody got an online reference for an article about the wireless stuff? I'm an Extra Class Amateur Radio Operator and usually I get information like this from one direction or another but I've heard *nothing* about it (yet).
To address Steve's question, The U.S. Congress, via the Communications Act of 1934 ("as amended" over the years) created the FCC to be the federal agency in charge of pretty much all communications by wire, radio, TV etc. (Military communications are not so much under the purview of the FCC but are generally coordinated *with* the FCC by some other group whose acronym I can't recall) Any transmission on any frequency falls under some FCC rule or the other, even if it simply says "we don't have many rules about X". ;)
And indeed, not everything they do is popular or always a good idea. BUT - if you study the history of radio broadcasting all the way back to the beginning and see what it was like when it was ALL *UNregulated* and complete and utter chaos.......well, be glad that somebody is around to coordinate the stuff.
Duane |
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Location: Indiana | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
As I indicated in the other thread about this, it's just the start. Pretty soon it'll be global and the entire entertainment and broadcast industries will be able to fill several huge landfills will obsolete and illegal wireless gear. I have not yet read the other thread whatever it is but what the FCC does generally only affects the US-of-A. The US is signatory on a number of international treaties involving regulation of radio signals in an effort to prevent differing frequency allocations in differing countries from clashing and causing problems. However, the sorts of systems that we are talking about are inherently short-ranged transmitters - and while that doesn't prevent the receivers from picking up "other stuff", they are usually designed in a manner that doesn't let them act like a high-grade communications receiver and pick up every belch, fart or burp within 1000 miles. :D For example, I don't see huge antennas on the receivers, just small ones that are just sufficient to do what they need to do and for what the units were designed for - this helps prevent picking up stray RF and messing up your mic channel, for instance. NEARBY signals that are very strong and close in frequency are another problem.
At any rate, the FCC in the US doesn't get to regulate communications in other countries, who have their OWN regulating agencies(there are a couple of exceptions that have to do with certain US territorial areas but it's relatively a minor issue). Equipment manufacturers have "versions" that meet the differing requirements in various parts of the world and are shipped accordingly.
So unless a particular spectrum move is what we call "harmonized" with other nations through some international treaty agreement, and this particular item is accurate, it will probably be only us users in the US who are getting....uh...er...hosed..... :p
Duane |
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Location: Scotland | Yes you are correct, the FCC has no jurisdiction anywhere except the USA. But, the reason wireless transmitters are at risk is because of demand for bandwidth by other allegedly "higher priority" users, and this situation is the same in other countries such as the UK and Europe. Moves have been underway for at least a year to sell the frequencies used by wireless gear in the UK to other services. And that's basically what it's about. Money. The Wi-fi, Digital TV, mobile internet companies etc are prepared to pay millions for the extra bandwidth, and that's way more they get from the licences sold to the comparatively tiny entertainment and broadcast industries. So unless you have very high-spec, expensive professional wireless kit, with hundreds of programmable frequencies, a few of which might reach into the tiny range of legal bands that are leftover, then you're screwed. Some manufacturers are intending to offer frequency upgrades on some kit, to deal with the new range but it won't be cheap. This is not conjecture or opinion, it comes from professionals who work in the concert so und industry, and from the sound reinforcement trade press, not some wireless manufacturers website or internet forum chatter. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | For more reading:
FCC Spectrum
Your stuff will still work, you just run the chance of ordering "to go" in the middle of a set. |
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Location: Scotland | Yes, it'll still work, but apart from the cross-traffic considerations, it will become illegal to use wireless equipment on those frequencies peviously allowed but subsequently licensed to other services. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | So...
If Bandwidth is outlawed... only Outlaws will use the Bandwidth?
Cool! |
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Location: Utah | It ain't illegal until you get caught... |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | On this subject, I just got some mass-market email from Sweetwater concerning this.
If you are not on their mailing list...
Here\'s some info that may or may not help you... |
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Location: Indiana | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
Yes you are correct, the FCC has no jurisdiction anywhere except the USA. But, the reason wireless transmitters are at risk is because of demand for bandwidth by other allegedly "higher priority" users, and this situation is the same in other countries such as the UK and Europe. Moves have been underway for at least a year to sell the frequencies used by wireless gear in the UK to other services. And that's basically what it's about. Money. The Wi-fi, Digital TV, mobile internet companies etc are prepared to pay millions for the extra bandwidth, and that's way more they get from the licences sold to the comparatively tiny entertainment and broadcast industries. So unless you have very high-spec, expensive professional wireless kit, with hundreds of programmable frequencies, a few of which might reach into the tiny range of legal bands that are leftover, then you're screwed. Some manufacturers are intending to offer frequency upgrades on some kit, to deal with the new range but it won't be cheap. This is not conjecture or opinion, it comes from professionals who work in the concert so und industry, and from the sound reinforcement trade press, not some wireless manufacturers website or internet forum chatter. Still, some good reference for information might be useful for many readers of this thread.
"Money". Yup, spectrum is valuable and here in the US the FCC refers to it as a "Spectrum Auction". People get punted, as we Amateurs did a number of years back from part of our 220-MHz band for a service that never came to be. Partly in THAT case it was our own fault for under-utilization....but the fact that a commercial entity could present a *concept* and not even a ready-to-go system and based upon that bounce somebody out really got some people seriously.....er.....upset. :-) Well, that and the fact that someone who had industry ties to the plan somehow gained a seat at the FCC....
"Higher priority", at least here in the US, boils down mostly to who has the best lawyers and lobbyists (read that as, "having the money to buy them"). If musicians could manipulate an industry group or coalition of industry groups and manufacturers (face it, where the money is) into fighting for the spectrum it would at the very least send the message that performing musicians (and if you think it through, LOTS of entertainment areas who also use wireless devices) won't just roll over and play dead.
If you roll that up into a group, I suppose you could call it "wireless entertainers" and when you stop and think about it, that is not exactly an insignifigant number, nor is it a non-profit industry. Seems to me that some people need to get together on this thing and demostrate some monetary clout....
Duane |
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Location: Indiana | Originally posted by FlySig:
It ain't illegal until you get caught... Aside from the humor I think was intended by that line, yes it is. About the time you get dragged into an FCC hearing and slapped with a six-digits-to-the-left-of-the-decimal-point fine, well then it will become obvious. :-) |
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Location: Indiana | Good link! If you check this out, there is an excellent poop sheet from Audio Technica on the whole topic, quite detailed. That caught my eye because the one wireless mic I own is an AT. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Did I read correctly, that you can still use the equipment if you are 1 km away from any other source? |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Just checked with our sound engineer. He is concerned, but is not panicked. Our mics use several frequencies serviced by channels that have been taken over by emergency agencies, he believes primarily fire and rescue. As explained to him, the policy is "if you hear our transmissions coming through your sound system, tough luck; if we hear your sound system coming through our radio transmissions, we'll shut you down." For some of the recently purchased high end equipment, he thinks the manufacturer might offer a trade-in. The change is very real. Good thing we went back to hard-wired mic systems in all our courtrooms a few years ago. |
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Location: Converse, Texas | ... bandwidth on the run .... bandwidth on the run ... |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Possibly same as OMA but I just got this today:
From: Sweetwater
Subject: Wireless Frequencies Changing - Facts Here
At Sweetwater we've created the Guide to Wireless Systems, which offers solid information on the frequency switchover. Editorial Director Mitch Gallagher contributes an article that summarizes the issues and provides guidance for owners of 700MHz-band systems. Additionally, white papers from Audio-Technica, Sennheiser, and Shure will bring you up to date on the switchover.
You can check out the wireless guide at
Sweetwater Wireless |
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Wireless units--now useless
