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Posts: 121
Location: Maine | As I have already posted, I purchased a 12 string Balladeer from a woman in California which arrived last Friday with damage. It was picked up today by UPS. I felt good that I had insured the package and I called them just a few minutes ago to see how long the process would take. What I was told next just blew me away. The damage to the guitar will be inspected by UPS. Any reimbursement for the damage will be paid directly to the UPS store where the shipping originated, AND the shipper will be the one to receive the reimbursement, not me!!! So, if the individual that you purchased the guitar from is honest, they will forward any monies collected from the insurance claim to you, the buyer who paid for the item, the shipping AND the insurance. If they are less than honest, they can keep the money, and you are SOL! The lesson here is that you better trust the individual that you are purchasing from, or the insurance could be meaningless. In my case, I don't think that I'll have a problem, but you never know. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Yep. Pretty much SOP. |
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Posts: 121
Location: Maine | AND, I just found out, if the claim is denied, the package is returned to the ORIGINAL SHIPPER, who, if they decide to return the package to me, will have to pay shipping fees all over again. THE NIGHTMARE BEGINS. |
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Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | You can read my multiple rants about why I hate UPS and use them only as a last resort.
Just one more example of why. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Mikes Academy aside, can it be that the extreme frigid temps we've had has something to do with the recent rash of finish cracks?? |
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Location: Maine | It can't be any good for them, that's for sure. Who are these people talking about global warming. It's freaking freezing here. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Makes you wonder how often the big manufacturers have problems like this. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | The Christmas season overload, Icy Road conditions and getting more out of fewer Workers are the big factors at play.
After 6-8 weeks of these conditions the accident and damage rates are sure to increase. |
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Location: Chehalis, Washington | Just makes me glad my custom will be shipping from California... |
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Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Cold weather probably has less of an effect on finish cracks that the sudden change in temp/humidity when someone receives a guitar and doesn't let it properly sit and acclimate to the new surroundings before opening it up.
I have gotten into the habit of letting a newly arrived guitar sit for at least 24 hours before opening the case (at least in the winter time).
During the spring/summer/fall when temps are consistently about 40-50 degrees, I maybe wait an hour. |
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Posts: 396
| This process sounds like a real pain. However, doesn't it make sense that UPS would be dealing directly with the shipper, not you? You may have paid the seller for shipping, but their deal is strictly with whomever paid UPS for the shipping. UPS has no business deal with you. Their contract is with whomever paid and signed for the shipping. Was this an Ebay purchase? File with Ebay protection plan? Paypal? Stop payment on credit card? Are there other possibilities for you here rather than waiting on UPS and then the seller? You did not receive what you ordered, it would seem to me that this is the seller's issue, not yours. If I bought something from Amazon or another business on line, any problem with the item when I ordered the package would be their problem and sent back for them to deal with. is this situation any different? |
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Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by Englishplayer:
is this situation any different? Yes, but only from the standpoint of I have 100% trust in Amazon to do the right thing and buying from a perfect stranger and then being at their mercy could be a bit unsettling.
However, overall your points are right on the money. |
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Posts: 1008
Location: Tuscany, Italy | WM, never heard about such strange procedure of paying back the shipper for a damaged item. As Englishplayer said, it doesn't make sense that UPS would be dealing directly with the shipper, and not you? Did you pay for both guitar and ship+insurance I guess ? So it should be you as receiver and not the shipper to get the refound !!
I had a similar case. I got a guitar from Ebay shipped with USPS to my place and arrived damaged. I rose a claim with IPS (Italian Postal Service) with all the necessary documents and after couple of months I got my bill payed as a refound on the $amount related to the insured price. I think it should work the same for you.
We all are WM's fan. |
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Posts: 119
Location: New York | I got finish cracks in my '85 Celebrity after packing it in a UHaul during the winter and moving to PA from NY. Not sure if it was the cold or the change in temps, or a combination of the cold and perhaps something putting pressure on the box in the truck. Those cracks suck. One of the reasons I like the natural finish of my Elite Special, no finish to crack.
As per the shipping insurance fiasco, I recently shipped a touch screen monitor to someone who bought it from me in Fla. After 12 days he still did not have it and I shipped it via the Post office. He was told that the insurance claim would be paid to me and that I would have to re-imburse him. Fortunately the item was delivered the next day and we never had to deal with it. They probably do it because the shipper paid for the insurance.
Hossman |
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Posts: 121
Location: Maine | When you purchase your guitar from an individual, you send them the money for the guitar, plus shipping and insurance costs. They, in turn, are the party responsible for shipping the guitar and insuring it. Doesn't matter that you actually paid for it with your money, they are the ones at UPS doing the transaction so technically, it is shipped by them and insured by them. So, any claim money is paid to them. I know, it's a sketchy way to do business. Buying this way involves a lot of trust to be sure. In my situation, I am confident in the seller and that my investment is safe. In the meantime, I have just purchased a model 6756LX in NH . A) I don't want to wait for UPS to work this out and B) I can drive to NH to pick up my Ovation. No worries about extreme temperature changes or freight monkey's throwing my Ovation around. I can't take anymore surprises. |
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Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | My 1537 was a "lost" UPS package that Noah ended up with after months and many headaches trying to deal with the claim.
If you paid by credit card, you might also notify your bank, but make sure everyone is working together. |
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Posts: 194
Location: Las Vegas, NV | I guess the better way to do all of this is to make the purchase and then set up shipping yourself, and email the shipping label to the seller. I never thought of it before, but this thread really raises some significant concerns... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | The insurance is paid to the person who purchased the insurance (the shipper). That's just standard procedure. |
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Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Which makes perfect sense when you take a step back and look at the situation rationally...
bcoombs,
I've done that very thing several times... |
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Posts: 121
Location: Maine | Originally posted by Jeff W.:
Which makes perfect sense when you take a step back and look at the situation rationally...
bcoombs,
I've done that very thing several times... And you are absolutely right......it makes perfect sense. So, the situation seems to come down to this. Go onto the ups site at www.ups.com and register for an account which is a simple process. Use your credit or debit card to pay for the shipping. List yourself as the shipper, receiver, and insurer of the package. Have the seller bring the guitar into ups with whatever info that you have set up online and Off it goes with everything in your name. Now, I haven't checked with UPS on the logistics of doing it this way. I am assuming here, and you know what they say about "assume." It would be interesting to know just how many insured items end up in litigation each year just because of this very thing, or how many get screwed and say to heck with it. They're too far away, it's too expensive to litigate, and I'll never get my money or my goods anyway. Just something to think about the next time one of us goes on Craig's list and buys a "git" from someone six states away or more. |
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Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Originally posted by Wagonmaster:
Have the seller bring the guitar into ups with whatever info that you have set up online and Off it goes with everything in your name. [/QB] Still, you'll need to exercise some control over the arrangements when the shipper drops it off. There are shipment options which the person dropping off the guitar can select, or worse yet, which UPS can impose, correctly or not. Certain selections, like two-day air, can tack on hundreds of additional dollars in fees, and you, as owner of the account, may not be able to control those costs from a distance. We learned this the hard way. |
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Posts: 840
Location: CA | I don't read anywhere here what the damage was. Are we talking finish cracks that weren't there when it was shipped? Or something really serious?
Was it obvious that the damage was caused by improper packing, or was it packed well? I think that matters in this train of thought.
Seems to me another way of dealing with this issue — assuming you still have the guitar — is to talk directly with the seller. I'm assuming (there's that word again) that this person is even less thrilled than you at the prospect of getting the guitar back. Perhaps he/she would be willing to refund part of the purchase price. Otherwise, if he is at all honest, he's looking at refunding your purchase price plus shipping and end up with a damaged guitar that he's going to have to either repair or sell cheaper.
Poor packing could strengthen your bargaining position, although anyone who would sloppily pack a guitar is probably a bit sloppy in the way they look at life anyway.
Obviously, if the damage is severe, you probably don't want the thing anyway. But if finish cracks are the worst of it, see if your seller will make a deal — then send it to Mom for a facelift. |
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Posts: 379
Location: Alagoas, Brazil | Oddball:
It is because the discussion about the guitar is in this thread:
http://www.ovationfanclub.com/cgi-bin/ubb/non-cgi/ultimatebb.php?ub...
There is a good description of the damages there, as well as further discussion about the issue. |
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January 2009
Posts: 4
Location: Tampa, Florida | Originally posted by Wagonmaster:
It can't be any good for them, that's for sure. Who are these people talking about global warming. It's freaking freezing here. You're not gonna' like this, but I was watching something on TV with some well known scientists, and they said that according to satellite data, the earth is in a cooling phase. Not trying to start a war, it's just what I saw on TV. And, no, I don't know why the polar ice is melting, but I know that cold is not good for wood or flesh bodies.
S. |
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UPS CAVEAT EMPTOR
