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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I could just ask Woody or Seesquare or a few of you other more mechanically inclined members...
But I figured everybody can use the information I am seeking. So...
I just bought an OP-11 Preamp... [Yeah... But it was cheap!]
I am gonna put it into my Celebrity TC12 Trekker, I hope!
Put This -- V ..... Into this -- >
 
So! What I really need to know is what is the best thing to cut the bowl with?
I have a cheap pseudo-dremel tool and drills and such. I am looking for advice on cutting the bowl. What to do... What not to do... Y'know?
So share some of the BFLG Wisdom, Please! :D |
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September 2005
Posts: 3618
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | start small, and take your time. I just asked a question on another post about whether the new iDea preamp (which supposedly comes with a template) fits the same hole as the Op Pro and VIP can. It would definitely help on an install if a template was available. I did think about the idead of positioning the can on the inside, where the hole will be, with a small piece of paper under it, and try to trace around it for a template. Just a thought. |
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September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | If you still plan on buying an iDea module... Yes, it has a template. I have one.
The iDea also fits in the same hole as an OP-Pro, OP-Studio, any of them with the oval hole...
With the iDea comes a foam gasket to go around the rim of the can, in the center of that gasket is a piece of foam the shape of the inside of the gasket... A template.
I will wait until I receive the OP-11 just to be sure that the can is the same size (I'm sure it is)... I just got it on evilBay, so I will wait until I have checked it out before I cut anything.
But yes, the iDea has a template. |
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March 2009
Posts: 60
Location: Long Island | just a thought but after you have your template you may be able to cut the hole with a hot blade
i have not tried this but i do use a utility
knife and heat gun to cut many types of plastic . |
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December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | OMA, in another thread, I mentioned that I am considering doing a similar project. (I want to add an iDea preamp and a pickup to an old acoustic-only Legend.) I have a Dremel, so I figured I'd start small and slowly expand the opening for the can.
Although footprints' suggestion to try a heated blade is a possibility, for me personally, that could quickly lead to disaster. I might end up with a "Guitar of Fire" without Dobrov's talent. ;)
Does that trekker already have electronics? If not, you'll need to get a pickup and 1/4" guitar jack, plus wire and connector to plug it into the can, right?
I'm trying to figure out my parts list and source for those parts before I get too carried away. I'm wondering if it is possible to buy an OEM pickup from Ovation, or are they something that are readily available anywhere? Either way, I'd like to find a pickup that is comparable to what Ovation uses in the current Legends, for example.
BTW, in that other thread, MWoody posted a link to his similar project photos (on a Pacemaker):
Pacemaker Repair
I think it will be a fun project and hopefully will result in a nice "modernized" old O…
…or I will have to send the whole mess to mother and pay them to put Humpty together again. ;)
Keep us posted on your progress OMA. |
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Posts: 3145
Location: Marlton, NJ | Once the hole is started, I found the best way to cut was with one of the Dremel sanding attachments. Instead of cutting, you're shaping. You can take your time and it's much easier to get the curve right.
As far as I'm concerned, the template that came with the iDea is useless because it's flexible.
I made a clay template off of a guitar that already had the opening. Once the clay hardened, you can move it over to the guitar you want to cut, lay the template in place (it only goes in one place), trace the opening and start cutting/sanding.
Worked perfectly for me. |
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August 2006
Posts: 3145
Location: Marlton, NJ | This is what I used for a template:
As I've said, the can only fits perfectly in exactly ONE location without gaps. This was the only way I could think of to locate the hole in the correct position. It worked just fine. I've done it on two guitars so far. |
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Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | If that pink donut is hard enough, it might would like a US/World 'tour'! |
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Posts: 5563
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | or I will have to send the whole mess to mother and pay them to put Humpty together again. And take it from me, they can do a fine job of it: check out my reconstructed/resurected '77 Pacemaker on my ning site (link below) |
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Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | The clay template makes great sense. At first I thought it was overkill, until I realized that it must be positioned in exactly the right spot to match the curve of the body. Moving the hardened clay around until it sits just right in the curve of the bowl-top is an excellent idea! Thanks!
(note to self: add clay to parts list…) |
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August 2006
Posts: 3145
Location: Marlton, NJ | Originally posted by 2ifbyC:
If that pink donut is hard enough, it might would like a US/World 'tour'! I've made that offer in the past... unfortunately, it is no longer in existence :(
I can tell you that the kind of clay I used was "Air Hardening Modeling Clay". I'm sure I got it at a craft store like A.C. Moore.
And B.T.W. - it cleaned right off of the git I used for a model. |
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September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by CrimsonLake:
...unfortunately, it is no longer in existence :( Cuz I woulda paid shipping and returned it when I was done. :p
So the winning recommendation so far is 'drill a hole then sand/grind it bigger'.... |
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September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | OH! So when drilling the hole, say, for the 1/4 inch jack... Or any hole...
Did y'all start-out with the bit going in reverse?
Cover the area with blue tape?
Any of them nifty tricks? |
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December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Ummmm, let's see... I have a 2171 for a master pattern. Need some clay...
Give me a few days and I'll see what I can create. Maybe I can resurrect Mike's donut.
< master, clay, create, resurrect... Happy Easter! > |
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November 2002
Posts: 3599
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | The clay template is an excellent shop tip. Add in the use of a 3/32" spiral router bit on the Dremel, cut 1/16" INSIDE the outline, then use the 1/2" sanding drum to open up the hole. Sand, fit, sand, fit, sand, fit........until its just right.
Not an acceptable place for Bondo, really. |
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December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | Firstly OMA, (or others) I'm working on a similar, but somewhat different, project, so please let me know if my comments and questions are breaking board etiquette and/or belong in a separate topic. I certainly don't want you to feel that I am stealing your thread Arthur, or taking it in the wrong direction, and I apologize if that is the case…
With that said and until I'm told otherwise:
Is the can positioned exactly the same distance from the the top regardless of the bowl depth?
I bought a couple different kinds of modeling clay today to experiment with… If I successfully create a template, I'll send it on to whoever wants it (after I have cut the hole, of course…) I also tried to find a pickup at several retail guitar shops locally… no dice.
However, I'm not cutting any holes until I have all the parts I need, so the search goes on. Since my objective is to put an iDea preamp into an acoustic Legend, maybe buying an iDea guitar and yanking the electronics (then patching the bowl) is not that crazy of a concept? Anyone ever tried to strip the electronics out of an iDea guitar? Is anything glued in place or difficult to remove? Would any of you iDea guitar owners be willing to look around inside to see if everything looks removable? I suppose there is a possibility that the pickup is glued in place under the saddle, but that seems unlikely.
Going that route would also make the bold assumption that the saddles are the same size, so that the pickup would fit correctly in the old O, which may not be the case… anyone know if/how many/what-size saddles Ovation uses? Are there a lot of possibilities?
But, if it did work, by the time you buy an iDea kit and a good pickup and a few other parts, it would be like getting a grey acoustic guitar (with some bonus holes) for $150 or so…
… I'm not sure I would really want to do that, I'm kind-of brainstorming while typing, but I definitely think converting an old acoustic to an A/E would be a fun project…
…on the other hand, I think I hear mother calling… |
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Posts: 3145
Location: Marlton, NJ | Ummm... yeah... the bridge was the other part of the story that I don't like to talk about. I absolutely butchered that part of it. I tried to route out the saddle hole to fit the larger saddle. It wasn't pretty. If you could find a thin saddle with a pickup, that'd be the way to go. |
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October 2005
Posts: 4025
Location: Utah | Standing, if the modeling clay doesn't work, you could try using a piece of sheet aluminum. It is easy to cut and easy to bend, and would also travel safely in a small box through the mail.
As to the iDea guitar. Well, if it were me, I'd just call Al and buy an iDea kit. They come with everything you need. You could also get the correct saddle and pickup from him. If you want an aftermarket pickup, there are several choices. I'd start at StewMac or Elderly.
The can attaches to the guitar with a clamp. There are two screws that each tighten a little wing against the inside of the bowl. So the can just drops in and you tighten the screws. To take the can out, just loosen the screws (it takes 30 or more turns of the screw to fully retract the wings) and pull the can out.
The Ovation pickups that go under the wide saddle are glued to the saddle. So you'd have to buy a saddle/pickup unit from Ovation. Or, you could buy an aftermarket drop-in pickup. You may have to shave something down to get the saddle height correct.
There are wide saddles with pickups, which are the "original" patented pickup. Those are what they use for the modern LX and T guitars. The thinline is a thin saddle that they used for a while. |
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December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | FlySig,
Thank you, that is useful information.
Sometimes some of this stuff is probably blatantly obvious to those of you more experienced OFC'ers, but can be daunting when starting out on the first such project. I have searched the archives, but discussions sometimes start with an assumption of basic knowledge that I lack at this point, and therefore old threads are not always clear to someone wanting to get more into this type of project.
(In the past, I rarely went beyond changing strings and basic maintenance without taking my guitars to a luthier.)
Anyway, here's my supplies list so far:
- Modeling Clay or Sheet Aluminum ;)
- ironing board ;)
- iDea preamp kit (will be ordered from Al ;) )
- Ovation pickup/saddle of correct size to fit existing bridge without major modification (beyond drilling hole for wire)
- 1/4" "guitar" jack (can you get these pre-wired with the plug/jack that connects it to the pre-amp?)
- wire, jack and solder if answer to above is no.
- assorted grit sandpaper
- 9 volt battery… ;)
- the guitar, of course…
- time and patience
Basic Tools: Drill/Dremel/soldering iron/screwdriver/pliers/wrenches/utility knife, etc.
…am I missing anything obvious, (other than a box and the address to ship it to mother after I butcher it… ;) )
Thanks! |
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December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | Originally posted by FlySig:
The Ovation pickups that go under the wide saddle are glued to the saddle. So you'd have to buy a saddle/pickup unit from Ovation. Or, you could buy an aftermarket drop-in pickup. You may have to shave something down to get the saddle height correct. Does that mean that any shims, if needed, would go UNDER the pickup?
(Another dumb question, but I have never pulled a shim on an A/E…) |
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October 2005
Posts: 4025
Location: Utah | Yes, shims go under the pickup. The pickup is glued to the bottom of the saddle, so it is one integral unit. If you already have shims in there, taking one or two out would likely do the trick.
BTW, the preamp kit comes with the output jack and wiring harness to go to the can. All you need to add is the pickup assembly. Someone posted a picture of their kit and it had a pickup and wiring in the picture, so ask Al if the kit includes the saddle/pickup.
…am I missing anything obvious, (other than a box and the address to ship it to mother after I butcher it… [Wink] ) A cold beer or a glass of wine! |
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December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | BTW, the preamp kit comes with the output jack and wiring harness to go to the can. All you need to add is the pickup assembly. Someone posted a picture of their kit and it had a pickup and wiring in the picture, so ask Al if the kit includes the saddle/pickup. I don't think that the iDea kit includes the output wiring and 1/4" jack, nor a pickup. I think it is assumed that you already have an A/E guitar and those parts are already installed. My understanding is that you can drop the iDea pre-amp directly into the existing can of any Ovation/Adamas with any of these: OP10, OP-20, OP-30, OP-40, OP-50, OP-Pro, OP-Studio or OP-VIP5. I think they only provide the replacement can in case you want to use the "aux input" feature, which would require you to drill an extra hole in the bowl (for the input jack) near the existing 1/4" output.
According to the "iDea for Dummies" site:
The iDEA pre-amp comes boxed with everything you need to install it as a direct replacement into your OP equipped Ovation guitar: OPi-1 pre-amp, mounting hardware, 9V battery, USB cable, ear-bud type headphones, 1/8 inch aux jack assembly, Installation Instructions and Quick Start guide. OMA, you already have your kit, right? Can you confirm the contents. |
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December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by standing:
I don't think that the iDea kit includes the output wiring and 1/4" jack, nor a pickup. You are correct.
There is an AUX IN 1/8" plug/cable assembly included, but no preamp/1/4" hardware. |
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October 2005
Posts: 4025
Location: Utah | The pin spacing and geometry for the electrical connector is not the same in all the cans. For example, the Op30 can has a different connector in the bottom than the OpPro, OpPro Studio, and VIP. The can is externally the same dimensions, and the preamps will fit in, but the electrical connections are different. So you need to be sure you have a compatible can in the guitar.
My OpPro Studio kit came with the can, the preamp, and the wiring harness and output jack assemblies. All that was missing was the pickup. |
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Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | Originally posted by FlySig:
The pin spacing and geometry for the electrical connector is not the same in all the cans. FlySig; thank you, thank you, thank you!
That was not clear to me before…
I was thinking that the iDea Pre-amp would be useful to just occasionally drop into any "compatible" O/A can when I wanted to fiddle with it. But, what you are saying indicates that it is not quite that "portable," since it will only work in an iDea can? I'm really glad you pointed that out, I was going on a false assumption…
I was hoping to swap it around among several guitars whenever the whim moved me, but not if I have to change cans every time…
With all due respect and kudos to Ovation; the iDea preamp IS a very clever gadget, but if you really like your current pre-amp or have several guitars that you want to use those features with, it might be easier (and possibly cheaper) to get one of those little Boss boxes separately, you can plug anything into those and I think they provide similar functionality and more, with the only drawback being that it is an extra box, rather than built-in, so it's not quite as handy as having it right there in front of your eyes on top of the guitar… (but there's always duct tape… ;) )
I will need to rethink which pre-amp I want to use… although the iDea still has a lot of appeal, one of my strongest reasons for choosing it (flexibility with multiple guitars) was invalid… but the good news is that I now have all the other Ovation pre-amps to consider and keep an eye out for… ;)
Membership in the OFC is sure worth the monthly dues I send to OMA… ;) I hope he doesn't raise my fees for totally hijacking his thread… (but someone had to keep this topic going while he's off drilling holes in his guitar… ;) ) |
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BFLG Question ? - Bowl Cutting for Preamp Installation?
