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Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma | The good news. I just received a like-new 2007-BCS thanks to a fine person selling on Ebay. Hooray! The bad news: I sold my venerable Takamine F340, to maintain the cosmic balance. I feel a little sad about that, but I will enjoy (and play) the 2007-BCS more. My wife is a little miffed, BTW, since I was supposed to thin the herd, not just upgrade it. But the GAS could not be indefinitely denied, merely postponed.
I love the 2007-BCS. It's the first guitar I have with the Contour back. As promised, it is very comfortable while either standing or sitting. More so than I expected. I guess I've been spoiled by my two roundbacks, though. I'm accustomed to being able to tilt the guitar top toward me if I have a difficult chord or left-hand movement, so I can see it better. The Contour top does not seem to lend itself to that little technique. Many of you accomplished players may consider that an amateurish cheat. Well, I am an amateur. Guess that's not much of a defense, but it's better than nothing. Here's hoping more practice with the 2007 will help me develop better touch playing (not looking at the fretboard).
My only previous preamp experience is with the OP40. I wanted to ask for advice or tips on the VIP-5. BTW, my Folklore LX does have the combo 1/4" and XLR outputs, so I think I'm educated on the requirements of the XLR output (correct cable, phantom power). I have read the VIP-5 User Manual. Now I'm looking for some unwritten wisdom from this community.
1. The first odd thing I noticed was that the tuner of the 2007-BCS did not work. Until (after I changed the battery) I plugged in a 1/4" instrument cable. Then it activated. I didn't know if that was a "feature" or if there was a problem with this particular preamp unit. However, I later read (in the on-line manual), "Only after you’ve connected your guitar will pressing this button activate the tuner." So, that's the way the VIP-5 works, hmmm? I'm not impressed by that difference, but I can obviously live with it, if that's the way it works and I'm now aware of it. Seems like a regression to me.
2. Since I had a rehearsal at church last night (for a special picnic gig tomorrow), I first tried plugging the guitar into the PA system using the XLR connector. I got nothing. Phantom was supposedly on from the mixer, although I did not personally verify it. I know that the cable's connector has the appropriate jumper wire that's been described as required for activation of the XLR output. I've used it with my Folklore LX and the OP40 preamp.It did not occur to me to try plugging a cable into the 1/4" output of the 2007-BCS, to see if that would power-on the XLR output. I simply removed the XLR cable and played via the 1/4" output; which worked fine. Does anyone out there in Ovationland have particular knowledge of quirks or "special features" I need to know regarding activating the XLR output on the 2007-BCS/VIP-5?
I figure I can swap preamps between my Ovations, for diagnostic purposes, right? Try an OP40 in the BCS, Try the VIP-5 in the Folklore LX, and see if I can isolate a problem. Is that feasible?
IF it comes to the point where I determine there is a problem with the VIP-5, is there any reasonable chance of repair?
How much would it cost me to buy another VIP-5 to replace a faulty one? And where would I get one?
Thanks in advance for advice and constructive comments.
Tim |
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Joined:
September 2004
Posts: 777
Location: East Wenatchee, WA | The VIP is a quirky animal at best (after owning 2 of them now). Do a search on "Dummy Plug" and you will find a lot of info.
Some of my observations.
Like you, my XLR would not work without the dummy plug inserted. But it DOES require a specific cord (I believe pin 1 has to be grounded) in order to power up. As a side note, this simply activates the electronics...it DOES NOT appear to power from Phantom as it still eats up batteries. I went through long discussions via email with the manufacturer of this set up, and the final conclusion from them is that it is NOT phantom powered. However, there are some on this group that indicate that is not their experience and feel that the unit does work with phantom. At the very least, you cannot run it without a battery installed like I could my Op-50 in my W597.
As for use....I find position 2 and 3 on my 2008C to be the best for live church use. I put in about 1/3 mix with mostly the pickup and a little bit of the sampled sound. My 2080 was similar.
Hope this helps. Glad you are enjoying hte 2007 |
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Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 2336
Location: Brighty in Blighty | Dump the VIP and stick in a OP PRO STUDIO. |
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Joined:
June 2005
Posts: 1320
Location: Round Rock, TX | Sounds like your VIP is working "as designed". I personally love the VIP, despite it's quirks, for its sound. I have also, however, come to love the OP-Pro Studio preamp which is a direct replacement for the VIP (i.e., uses the same can). I find that the VIP works best (to my ears, YMMV) for solo work while the OPPS is great for playing in groups.
You can pick up an OPPS, or a VIP for that matter, from Al. Just look up Lost Art Vintage on the web and contact him. |
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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4028
Location: Utah | Originally posted by dweezil:
Dump the VIP and stick in a OP PRO STUDIO. ^
^
That's right.
The VIP just didn't sound great to me, but I think the trick is to use very very little of the processed sound mixed in. The Adamas emulation was pretty good in my 2007BCS, as was #3.
Now, the OpPro Studio you can order from Al for a very reasonable price and it just drops in. No need for the dummy plug like the VIP. For live performance I find that I prefer a bit of compression. The OpPro Studio has it built in. The Studio also has an acoustic exciter built in, making the plugged in sound more "acoustic" or more "woody".
It all depends really on what you want, though. I want my 2007BCS to sound like a 2007BCS when plugged in. The Studio does just that. But if you want to be able to sound like you are mic'd, or like a different guitar, then the VIP does that.
I found that the VIP onboard EQ requires some tweaking when adding in some processing. This is probably the key to success with the VIP, rather than just adding some effect into the mix. The digital signal does not go through the EQ, but it still seems to help a lot to tweak the unprocessed signal. |
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Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma | Until I get an OP Pro Studio, would I be able to use an OP40 (from my 12-string Legend)? They seem to be physically interchangeable, but the connectors do not appear to be identical. |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I have never actually handled an OP-40, but a VIP has eight contacts...
If they OP-40 does not have eight contacts (in a block, not staggered) it will not work.
I have only used the VIP in my teeny little amps, but the 1/4" jack works just fine for me.
Electric guitarists have been getting along just fine with the 1/4"... What's so great about an XLR? |
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Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | My VIP works with the XLR cable supplied by Al, without plugging in a 1/4" cable. I suspect your XLR cable is the "wrong" type. I haven't tried using it without the battery, but I'm guessing it wouldn't work.
The "new feature" is most annoying when I am practicing (which I do exclusively unplugged) and need to reach over and grab the dummy plug and remember to take it out when I've finished. |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Okay... I had to look...
I have a Taxi TX15 Battery-Powered PA that came with a mic and an XLR mic cable.
It is a little PA so I doubt it has Phantom Power, but who knows?
When I plug-in the XLR cable, my tuner works. So does the amp.
My XLR cable has a spring latch to hold it into the mic, is that the 'Ground'?
Anyway... Mine works just fine, and I Like my '07C :cool:
And the VIP is okay.
The five images are interesting but otherwise it is just an OP-Pro with another knob.
[And ya' gotta plug something in to use the tuna] |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13984
Location: Upper Left USA | You can always "Wet Willie" the XLR to get the Tuner to work.
Uncle Woody's stolen tidbit #42 |
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Joined:
March 2007
Posts: 840
Location: CA | For what it's worth, I could not get used to the contour back on my Sweetwater Elite T. In fact, I came to almost despise it for the very reason you state — the guitar wants to 'fall away' from you. I tried to like it, but in the end, the contour is the sole reason I sold the guitar. Otherwise, it had the ideal look and sound for me.
It's worth mentioning that I'm kind of skinny. I realize that for players with a bit of a 'bowl' themselves, the contour back is probably very comfortable and in fact preferable to a round back.
However, it's been a bit disheartening to see that every 'Collectors' edition guitar for the past 3-4 years has had a contour back. I would love to have one of these beautiful guitars (not that I can afford one, mind you), but I would absolutely not buy one because . . . they have those weird, angular, uncomfortable backs.
I've been hoping I wasn't the only one who felt this way, so kind of encouraged by your post. Awhile back, I recently wrote Ovation to suggest that they try offering the next Collectors in both a contour (perhaps "2010C") and regular mid or deep bowl ("2010DB") and see what the market tells them. As expected, I received a nice email back saying they would consider it. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12750
Location: Boise, Idaho | I'm with you, Oddball. I played Karls #47 for 7 hours, which is about 3 times longer than I've ever played a guitar, and it never slid off my knee or felt uncomfortable. I was leaning over trying to read out of a book most of the time. Last night I played the LAV Koa and noticed that the contours of the contour bowl didn't fit me as well as the deep bowl. I don't think I could play it as long without discomfort. I'm not skinny by any means and a weeks' worth of German food made my bowl considerably deeper. |
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Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma | Old Man Arthur was 100% right. The OP40 did not work in the 2007BCS. It does have the staggered contacts he described. I'll try some side-by-side comparisons with XLR cables, since I have some that work with my Folklore LX and its OP40. If they work with the Folklore LX, they should work with the 2007BCS... unless the dummy plug truly is required.
Now that I've been able to use the Contour back for a few days... I'm just not sure. It definitely sits on my leg better when I'm sitting. That's a very good thing, as that's the only gripe I hear from the uninitiated. But it's not as "right" for me when standing as my Folklore LX's medium bowl. It does beat a standard flat back, for playing a comparable-depth guitar (like a dreadnought) when standing.
One last remark. I have not put new strings on the 2007BCS yet, since the ones that came on it were in very good condition, but my Folklore LX sounds better than the 2007BCS. Personal taste? Maybe. Probably. But I think most objective listeners would agree. The 2007BCS definitely has more acoustic _bass_ tone (unplugged) than does the Folklore LX. In hindsight, it took a while for the Folklore LX to grow on me. I bet the 2007BCS will be just as sweet in a couple of years. |
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Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
Electric guitarists have been getting along just fine with the 1/4"... What's so great about an XLR? Nothing... unless you happen to want to plug direct to a mixer, or are more than 15' from the amp...
Originally posted by Oddball:
I realize that for players with a bit of a 'bowl' themselves, the contour back is probably very comfortable and in fact preferable to a round back. Hey! I resemble that remark!
AFAIK, the OP50 was the first of the OP series to offer XLR. That one is most likely to be interchangeable with the Pro, Studio and VIP. |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | "Nothing... unless you happen to want to plug direct to a mixer, or are more than 15' from the amp..."
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So, my 20 foot 1/4" foot cable looses something in the translation? |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | It all balances out.
What it loses in tone it picks up in noise... |
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Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 56
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma | UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE
I just got around to setting up my home mixer (with switchable phantom power), and... the BCS guitar with the VIP-5 WORKS through the XLR output! No dummy plug. :D So, there's not much call for me to complain, as long as I remember the Wet Willie tuning technique; and the possibility of short battery life.
Now I need to retest all my mic cables, to see if any of them are malfunctioning in regard to that grounded pin one business. |
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Ovation Collectors 2007-BCS. First Impressions and Questions
