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August 2005
Posts: 616
Location: cincinnati, ohio | This is something I've noticed over the years. I've had an Ovation Balladeer since 1971. It was a straight acoustic, and all the aftermarket pickups that have ever been in it have sounded great, while other acoustics with the same gear have had that ghastly, tinny, "quacky" piezoelectric sound. I've never had a pre-amp or a volume or tone control on it, just a pickup. Right now it has a Fishman Supernatural II undersaddle in it, professionally installed (my big ole Sumo wrestler arms are getting too big to get in the soundhole anymore!) and it's one of the best-sounding acoustics I've ever heard amplified. It's a testament to Ovation workmanship, I think, that they always sound good, no matter what kind of garbage you stick in them to amplify them. I've had Martin Thinlines in it which sounded good, but I was replacing them every two years (I think they were made by Fishman, but they were nowhere near as sturdy as the new Fishmans). I hard wired in Dean Markley and Seymour Duncan soundhole pickups, and they were good, too, although a little too "electric" sounding. Oddly enough, the BEST sounding pickup I ever had in it (until I got this latest Fishman) was a $.49 cent Radio Shack piezo door buzzer stuck on the underside of the bridge area with silicone!! I read about it in an old issue of Frets magazine, and it worked GREAT! Friends of mine tried all these various pickups in other guitars-- Fender acoustics, Epiphones, Yamahas, Alvarez's, and even a Martin D-18-- and NONE of them sounded as good as the Balladeer. Wonder if anybody else has had a similar experience?
Also, something I've noticed-- the guitar has a blonde/natural finish. I have pictures of me with it on my website from the '70's, '80's, '90's, and the 2000's, and it's always looked blonde up until the last couple of years. In pictures from the last couple of years, it almost looks ORANGE!To my eyes, it's always looked the same blonde color, even now, but maybe I'm compensating. If you want to check them out, the site is www.oneguyoneguitar.co.nr and you can click on the "photos" button on the home page. You can also click "Rosewood," "Wooden Nickel," and "Runnin' On Empty" buttons, then click the "photos" button under each band. The guitar STILL looks great as an orange guitar, too, by the way (By the way, the skinny kid with the muttonchop sideburns and Elton John glasses in the early pictures is the same person as the "big ole Fat Guy" who looks like a Sumo wrestler in the later pics)! |
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March 2005
Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | I've used a Bill Lawrence sound hole pickup and it sounded great to me. I thought that it would cure my GAS if I could plug in my Matrix, but that was about 10 guitars ago, so it didn't work. |
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Posts: 616
Location: cincinnati, ohio | Yeah, one of my bandmates used a Lawrence in an Epiphone, and it sounded good. I've been lucky with G.A.S. attacks; I only have 3 acoustics-- the Balladeer; a Pacemaker 12-string (with a Fishman Supernatural II); and an Ibanez AEF18TVS with a Fishman Sonicore pickup and onboard SSQ Shapeshifter EQ. I got the Ibanez as a backup and a spare in case the Balladeer needs service, and I take the Ibanez when I play places where I don't want to risk the Ovations, like rowdy bars (although I don't do as many of those anymore) or campfire gigs. It's a good guitar; amplified it sounds close to my O's, thanks to the Fishman. Of course, when you play acoustic, the Ovations blow off the Ibanez's doors. It's no contest-- like a pop gun against a cannon. One of these days, I WOULD like to get an Adamas, though. We'll see.... |
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January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | Thanks for the report Rick. I'm 100% with you: nothing has EVER come close to my straight acoustic Legend. I've had worse luck with pickups, however: hot dots, under-saddle etc. SOOOO.. I'm thinking of trying out the stick-on under-bridgeplate K&Ks or perhaps a Fishman Matrix Blend doo-dad. Our technical guru Templeman says "bollocks" to that. He thinks all Fishman/K&K etc. are garbage. He warns that any unit with a mini gooseneck mic will be useless because of feedback. Now here's my dream: to get an amplified sound that resembles what I can record with my high-end AKG mic direct to the computer (check the sound sample below). I'd love to hear OFCer opinion on this: WHAT PICKUP, WHAT AMP?
Last summer I bought an Al Dimeola Signature. Sounds quacky as hell, thin and weak. Not happy. |
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August 2005
Posts: 616
Location: cincinnati, ohio | Hey, Greg-- I'll check out the music when I get home; believe it or not, my computer at work doesn't have speakers, and we can't use headphones (because we wear headsets to answer phones). Looking forward to it.
Any pickup or even a pickup/mic combo is going to be a compromise; nothing is ever going to sound as good as an acoustic straight-mic'ed. The trick is to find one you're happiest with. That can be a pain with an undersaddle because of the installation. I chose the Fishman Supernatural II after hearing it in quite a number of guitars of varying quality, including some Ovations and custom-built guitars, and it sounded great, even when you ran the EQ zeroed out with no processing.I've never regretted it.
I know a couple of folks who tried gooseneck mics and have spent entire nights fighting nightmare howling feedback. I've heard a Taylor with the pickup/mic combo, and to be frank, I was extremely underwhelmed-- my Ibanez sounded just as good (maybe the guy had it EQ'd badly or something). Now, the K&K's are supposed to be pretty good and don't require altering the guitar unless it needs a jack. I've heard the I-Beam is really good, but you need a bridge with bridge pins so you can position the pickup from underneath. That would take some serious modification on an Ovation, and I wouldn't do it.
In the end, undortunately, it's trial and error. You have to play as many different guitars with different pickup systems through as many different amps as you possibly can. If you hear a pickup you like, and it's available as an aftermarket add-on, get it and put it in (or have it out in) your Ovation-- realizing that it's not going to sound EXACTLY the same as it did in that other guitar. As far as amps go, almost any amp that's specifically designed for acoustic guitar will work for you-- Genz-Benz; Trace Elliott; Peavy Ecoustic; Roland AC60; Fishman Loudbox; Acoustisonics. It's a matter of personal preference: how big and heavy do you want it to be, how much power, etc.?
In the end, NOTHING is going to sound as good as a good acoustic guitar and a good mic-- but who wants to be anchored to a microphone all night? |
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Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | Thanks Rick!
I'm leaning toward a Fishman with no mic (keep hearing horror stories...). Maybe I can find something with onboard preamp and controls that does not wreck the guitar. When you're not running through the PA, do you have a favorite amp? I was surprised that my Roland Jazz Chorus is not half bad for acoustic: powerful and clean. |
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November 2004
Posts: 1330
Location: ms | dobro,Try the L.R.Baggs ribbon transducer.You will not be sorry..or better yet the element active system,Easy to install and you will not beat the sound.The Fishmans are good(with no mic)but the Baggs just sound more natural and also have more punch. www.lrbaggs.com |
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March 2002
Posts: 15677
Location: SoCal | I've got an LR Baggs in a late 70's Legend that has a for shit sound acoustically. But plug it in and it sounds big and full. |
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May 2002
Posts: 651
Location: Australia | Anyone got any ideas on how to amplify a #47 RI without cutting holes into it.
A mic's the only way I can think of. |
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August 2005
Posts: 616
Location: cincinnati, ohio | Hey, Greg--
Right now my amp of choice is the Roland AC 60 acoustic chorus amp. It has chorus, reverb and delay along with EQ and auto feedback control.Its small size and light weight (20 lbs) make it a joy to move, and it's got more than enough punch for just about any place I play. If we play somewhere huge (or outside), the Roland has stereo outs so I can piggyback into a PA. I have a Peavey Ecoustic 112 just in case we ever do a stadium tour (ha-ha), but it weighs 80 lbs.-- or FEELS like it does. I don't want to work that hard anymore.
I've always liked the sound of the Fishman pickup. Gulfcoast mentioned L.R. Baggs pickups; they have a great sound. James Taylor SWEARS by L.R. Baggs, and if you've ever heard him live, his acoustic sound is aces-- he uses just a threshhold touch of chorus on his guitars. Main gripe I had with the old Baggs pickups was that the pickup WAS the saddle. It was this big hunk of brass and you had to file down the underside until you got your action where you wanted it, and there was no room for error. I would DEFINITELY have a pro install something like that. Now, I'm not familiar with the ribbon transducer Gulfcoast mentions. If the name of the pickup is descriptive, that sounds a lot more user-friendly to install. |
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April 2006
Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Well now , this all sounds interesting I`ve got a ZEPEDA all solid wood which is a new guitar so I guess it`l take a good two years before it sets in , still trying different gauges , and looking for a good pick up,looked at the ribbon but do not want to mess up the guitar (she`s a beaut ! )so just that little amp from L R B ,the one that`s like the end pin and a ribbon ,you made my choice easier, thanks gulfcoast and Rick,by the way, I enjoyed your website :) |
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August 2005
Posts: 616
Location: cincinnati, ohio | Thanks for checking it. We're still getting the kinks out, but we're pretty proud of it. |
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November 2004
Posts: 1330
Location: ms | richardd,You might look into the L.R.Baggs M1 line of p-ups.Its a soundhole p-up much like the sunrise that are still the gold standard for soundhole p-ups.I`ve only used the non-active,it sounds great but really comes alive with a good DI box.They have a active M1 that is said to sound good without a DI box, Wait you said a 47,they don`t have a center soundhole do they?Baggs makes a stick-on p-up called the I-beam,as much as i like the other Baggs products the I-beam makes too much top and body noise,and you have to have a DI box to get much control over it.I do not like them but Dean Markley makes a stick-on p-up that sounds good and is cheap. |
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Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | Fantastic advice. I do see that I need a pro to help with installation. My 74 Legend has KILLER acoustic sound, so maybe it will be that much more interesting with a decent pickup (I like my oldie acoustically far more than the new Di Meola Signature). Again, Gulfcoast: excellent work on the OFC CD! And thanks Rick. I have a clue now. |
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THEY SOUND GREAT NO MATTER WHAT YOU PUT IN THEM
