|
|
Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by Omaha:
My view is that Ovation needs to continuously move their product up-market. Continuous improvement of everything, along with steady price increases. I agree. But it's tough to move up-market with the existing product. Look at Cadillac, they keep trying to move up-market but benz and lexus buyers won't give them a sniff.
Ovation had the golden opportunity with the Adamas line. It was premium priced, premium performance and definately could compete with some of the wooden box guitars. But somehow the salesforce or the dealers just didn't seem to know how to sell them. There are a lot of guys on this board who frequent music shops and have NEVER even seen one of Ovations flagship models.
Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Guitar making is at the cusp of having to utilize building resources differently. High quality tone woods are becoming harder to come by and the best of it will be going to small, select buyers, hand builders, boutiques and such-- and not the larger producers. Available tone wood is generally dropping in quality and large scale producers who purchase tone wood will be getting poorer and poorer lots, which will cause more variation in each guitar of the same model. Production woodbox builders already suffer from this syndrome because they build all guitars to one spec and don't tune it to the specific wood used in each guitar. This causes large variation guitar to guitar. That's why so many of the same model Martin or Gibson etc, sound so different. Some sound good, some like crap.
"New" materials, like carbon fiber are going to be used more and new materials developed and as a result, designs are going to change with these "hi tech" materials. This is where Ovation has real promise.
The "plastic" guitar is going to come back to the forefront and Ovation/Adamas should be leading that charge. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2006
Posts: 1634
Location: Chehalis, Washington | I agree with you Jeff (now that's a scary statement :eek: ).
Anyone checked out Rainsong or CA guitars lately? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 5327
Location: Cicero, NY | There are plenty of music stores in and around Syracuse (I can think of 7 right off the bat within a 20 minute drive) and I'd bet anyone there's not an Adamas in any one of them and hasn't been in at least the last 5 years that I've seen (with the sole exception being a W597 that I saw in one of the stores' online warehouses that I had shipped to the local store).
And that one is sold. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 286
Location: Idaho | In reading several posts this past weekend on ovation marketing, one concept stands out to me. Where did the notion of the 'boutique' guitar dealers come from, and why do they tend to avoid Adamas? Why was ovation left out of this market? As most lower lines of any product tend to imitate the high end, is this why the wood boxes are dominant? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret |
It seems like at least 1/2 the comments in this thread are about how Ovation should work on their marketing, they don't seem to get it, ect...
Anyone who has been on the factory tour should realize that Ovation is running at near capacity for the CT plant. What makes anyone think they want to sell more USA guitars than they currently do? Do we really want them trying to produce more than they are, at the expense of quality?
From KMC's viewpoint it would make more sense to produce everything overseas and close the domestic plant.
We've got it great. Out favorite guitars are undervalued, in plentiful supply, almost always produce a pleasing response from someone whose opinion was based on the 'plastic' bowl and are for the most part handmade by some incredible people who love doing what they do. New Ovations and Adamii are still cutting edge, old ones are still high quality beautiful instruments. If you didn't appreciate them you wouldn't be collecting them.
Why the cry for higher prices? I don't hear anyone saying, "Geez, I sure wish Chrysler would get their act together and jack the prices on those PT Cruisers up another 10 grand so they'd get more respect."
I guess I just don't get it. I can custom order an awesome guitar without draining my retirement fund. Why is that a bad thing?
I could care less how poorly they're strung at GC, whether they can be reached or if they're on the wall at all. I think CT is selling as many as they care to produce, and as long as they stay in business they'll continue to improve and innovate.
Paying more for a guitar won't make me like it any more.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by edensharvest:
I agree with you Jeff (now that's a scary statement :eek: ).
Anyone checked out Rainsong or CA guitars lately? kuuuuhhhha. . . Welcome to the Dark Side, Andrew. . .kuuuuuhhhaaa  |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 5327
Location: Cicero, NY | To a large degree I agree with you, Waskel, but I would also add that I would love to wander into my local GC or mom/pop shop and see an Adamas or two on the wall (or a Hamer for that matter) to play. What would that do? Almost certainly increase the popularity and, ultimately, sales (IMHO). Would it increase the price? Probably in the long run but that would be the by-product, not the goal. But, if they're comfortable being the boutique guitar, so be it. 'Course that may also end up clashing with JW's more proactive approach, which I don't disagree with either. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | I agree it would be nice to have some available for browsing, Weas.
But aside from that, I guess my question would be, if Ovation doesn't seem to care about increasing sales/popularity, why should we?
Given that the end results would be higher demand (less availability), higher prices and the guitars we currently own would become more commonplace? ("Gosh, I'm glad I bought a Subaru Outback, nobody has one of these!") |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2006
Posts: 62
Location: Canada | The whole reason I'm interested in Ovations is because everything else out there sounds the same. It's Taylor everywhere. Ovations should sound nothing like that.
The deep bowl is to me the very heart of Ovation's uniqueness.
Here's my suggestions:
1- Give Julian Cope a signature Adamas. He's a very cool and influential artist who has played one for years. His association may not mean as much instant recognition as Melissa Etheridge but I'm sure it would make a positive difference in the long run. Of course I'm a fan. :D
2- Discontinue the value lines. I would say this for any US guitar company. Fender may sell the most guitars on the planet but owning a Fender means nothing anymore.
3- I second the suggestions for reviving some of the hallmarks of old: fibreglas bowls, raised rosettes, etc.
4- Under no circumstances try to emulate anyone else. You started as a renegade, vanguard company, Ovation. Conformity is no way for a rebel to behave. This current fascination with vintage will pass. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by The Wabbit Formerly Known As Waskel:
It seems like at least 1/2 the comments in this thread are about how Ovation should work on their marketing, they don't seem to get it, ect...
Anyone who has been on the factory tour should realize that Ovation is running at near capacity for the CT plant. What makes anyone think they want to sell more USA guitars than they currently do? Do we really want them trying to produce more than they are, at the expense of quality?
From KMC's viewpoint it would make more sense to produce everything overseas and close the domestic plant.
We've got it great. Out favorite guitars are undervalued, in plentiful supply, almost always produce a pleasing response from someone whose opinion was based on the 'plastic' bowl and are for the most part handmade by some incredible people who love doing what they do. New Ovations and Adamii are still cutting edge, old ones are still high quality beautiful instruments. If you didn't appreciate them you wouldn't be collecting them.
Why the cry for higher prices? I don't hear anyone saying, "Geez, I sure wish Chrysler would get their act together and jack the prices on those PT Cruisers up another 10 grand so they'd get more respect."
I guess I just don't get it. I can custom order an awesome guitar without draining my retirement fund. Why is that a bad thing?
I could care less how poorly they're strung at GC, whether they can be reached or if they're on the wall at all. I think CT is selling as many as they care to produce, and as long as they stay in business they'll continue to improve and innovate.
Paying more for a guitar won't make me like it any more.
Yep, that sums it up. On the large scale, more is not always better. As they say, "better to leave them wanting more" and by the tone of this thread that is EXACTLY what they have been doing, and doing well for a long time.
I do however, believe that at least one super-flagship, high dollar guitar, would help "Image". Not that Ovation has a bad image, but at one time it was artists that got the words out. Now, it's more based on events to get the word out. Just one model, that they probably won't have to make many of, for lets say $10,000 to $15,000 price range, or even higher. The equal to the PRS Dragon and the like. Exotic bindings and inlay, latest technology, hand made, etc etc... Of course it would have to sound good, but people that buy these guitars, buy them for the artistic and ingenuity value as much as the sound, so just as long as it sounded at least as good as an Adamas, it would fine. Why, just to have it in the Catalog. For it to be the guitar to "wish for."
I was at the International Motorcycle Show here over the weekend. Each vendor had One bike that is just for the show. The buzz starter, the eye catcher, the one to dream about that you couldn't afford even if they did build more than one. We all just saw the thread about the Fender "Blackie". Ok, that's based on an "artist" model, but same idea. It's the one to shoot for. It's the one that will cause all those folks that can't afford one, to just buy the equal model of a regular Strat for a fraction of the price.
And here's an example of the "over the top" level I'm talking about. To start with, a mother of pearl w/gold and silver accent likeness of the Factory or even Portrait of Charley Kaman on the headstock. How about the epulets made of cut Garnet the CT state mineral??
Just my 2 cents... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I heartily agree with what a few here have already said:
Y’want a great-sounding, wood-box construction guitar? Buy a Tak.
Y’want a quality-built solid/hollow body electric? Buy a Hamer.
Or, . . just go "elsewhere".
Ovation has been KNOWN (since it’s inception) as a Roundback Guitar. It Works.
I fail t’see how it would be advantageous for Kaman to re-tool, refit, and venture into things they’re not known for, only to compete with themselves.
Let’s face it, the primary reason we’d like t’see Ovation getting more recognition in stores, TV, and on concert stages is because of that “look” that you sometimes get when you mention that you own/play an Ovation to a member of the self-affirmed GuitarCognoscente (like the AGforum crowd).
I’ll admit that I’m as guilty of it as anyone. But when all’s said & done, “f@ck ‘em!”
I ALSO think that with the advent of the ContourBowl, the VIP, and some of the other stuff that Darren&Co. have been coming up with,
they’re steadily making an argument that Ovation is STILL a hefty “contender” (sound-wise) in ACOUSTIC and A/E models . . .
Sorry, but my opinion of a wood-backed Adamas would be that it’s just “stupid”.
I WILL agree that Marketing & A/R need t’get off their collective ARSES and get this stuff (like the Viper) OUT there
and quit cow-towing to the asswipes at GuitarCenter who’s front-line Customer Support consists of a sales force of graduates from Hamburger U.
If KMC provides a major share of their overall inventory, they should do a “Henry” and throw a little weight around about how/where things are displayed and advertised.
We have a word for this:
“click” |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Ooo, Miles! Cut mineral inlays and epulets!!! The perfect blend of organic and synthetic!
Can you imagine a black Ute with this for inlays?
azurite, malachite, and tenorite 
malachite
 |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13983
Location: Upper Left USA | Cliff, you were concise, collected and correct. Make that one a double... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | ". . Cliff, you were concise, collected and correct . ."
ahhh, sh!t! . . . I must be "slipping"!! . . . |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7210
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by MWoody:
Cliff, you were concise, collected and correct. Make that one a double... ditto |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13983
Location: Upper Left USA | At least you didn't blow up the freak'in Topic with your dyed lapidary specimens! :p
A little turquoise with that 95 Collector would be sweet! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4815
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | What Waskel ranted and Cliff said. It's a great guitar, put on your big girl pants and just take the snide comments from the uninformed. It's just another opportunity to inform the stupi....unfortunate.
And really! You'd like to pay MORE for a guitar? Fine, send me seven grand, I'll ship you the Ovation of your choice. Better? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4815
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Asked one of the local music shops why he didn't stock Os. A good fellow, supportive of local musicians and events.
A pyrotechnition as a hobbyist, he builds and designs most of the fireworks displays in the area. (so he's not a boring, numbers only, businessman... but he's still all business)
He said he didn't stock Ovations because of:
A- Low market demand.
B- Thin margins.
He'll bring them in for special order, but won't stock them. He has often special ordered stuff for me, and takes an admirably thin profit as the item never sits in inventory. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 1900
| Did he specify USA Ovations or all Ovations, or did he understand the differences? I've had people listen to me play my Legend and remark how impressed they were with the sound quality, surprised there was a 'USA' model... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4815
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | He knows Ovations. Not like us, but he knows.
;) kinda like Christians discussing Agnostics, wot? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2002
Posts: 1900
| I guess were just a bunch of fanatics, plain and simple... :) I've got a running spec sheet on a custom-made longscale O'. I'm always tweeking it here and there. Probably cost me big bucks if I'm ever able to send it to alpep.. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 1126
Location: Omaha, NE | Here's a simple rule of business: If you are at or near capacity, raise your prices. If you do so, and are still at or near capacity, raise them some more. Keep raising them until you aren't so busy.
Personally, I think Ovation as a brand is underperforming from the perspective of stockholder value. I'd love to spend a couple of years working on fixing that, but who's got the time? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by fillhixx:
He knows Ovations. Not like us, but he knows.
;) kinda like Christians discussing Agnostics, wot? :D |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13983
Location: Upper Left USA | Ahem,
"He knows Ovations. Not like us, but he knows.
kinda like Christians discussing Agnostics, wot?
That would be "like Agnostics discussing Christianity".
There, I feel better now.
Omaha is right btw. |
|
| |
How/What would you like a new Ovation Guitar to be/Have
