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OT I need to vent

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moody, p.i.
Posted 2006-12-19 4:14 PM (#225889 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15348

Location: SoCal
When my kids were younger, I found that a lot of disiplinary problems could be solved witht he judicious use of duct tape.....
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Mr. Ovation
Posted 2006-12-19 4:17 PM (#225890 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7067

Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
Thanks for this months input to the "Yep, we'll never have kids" montra.

When we were back east, we would visit a friend who had kids or something like that for our monthly dose of "nope, still don't like'em, still don't want'em."

Out here we haven't met many folks yet and frankly the kids seem to be more behaved here, but still, kids will be kids. I had a group of teens ruin a day for Lisa and I this weekend. I prefer not to go into what I did, but sometimes, even if you don't have kids, ya need to be the parent.

Unfortunately for me, I never did the things I see kids do today. From what I recall I wasn't taken out in public until I could act right (hence the reason I still don't go out much). But seriously, I was never around smaller kids that acted out, so I never know what to do, and never know what is a "kid being a kid" It's very frustrating. I usually just deal with the adults of the kids and over the years that's usually involved Law Enforcement on some level. When the adults aren't around, I usually do the "wrong" thing, just out of anger.

I agree, it should require a license to have kids.

I will say, (and this will probably create a stir) of the kids I have met in my entire life, when I think of "good kids", 90% (probably more) are raised by single parents.
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Waskel
Posted 2006-12-19 4:23 PM (#225891 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent



Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11829

Location: closely held secret
Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
"nope, still don't like'em, still don't want'em."
Miles, was that something you heard around the house a lot when you were growing up? ;)
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Capo Guy
Posted 2006-12-19 4:39 PM (#225892 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent



Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 4394

Location: East Tennessee
Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
When my kids were younger, I found that a lot of disiplinary problems could be solved witht he judicious use of duct tape.....
I still remember what Ivory soap tastes like.
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CrimsonLake
Posted 2006-12-19 4:43 PM (#225893 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
August 2006
Posts: 3145

Location: Marlton, NJ
I think that one of the big differences today is that kids think that they can act when they're alone with friends ALL of the time. There are no boundaries anymore...

I blame TV (aside from the main source of blame of course.. the parents). What did we have when we were kids... The Little Rascals, Bugs Bunny, etc... violent? yes... maybe a little racist at times? yes.. but they were always fearful and respectful of their parents.
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lanaki
Posted 2006-12-19 4:52 PM (#225894 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
October 2006
Posts: 5575

Location: big island
My Three Sons, Leave It To Beaver, Father Knows Best, Make Room For Daddy, Lassie, The Cosby Show, Eight Is Enough, to name a few, and even The Brady Bunch all had respectable father figures. Things started going downhill when Archie Bunker invaded our homes...yes, we got lots of laughs but the trend in deadbeat dads has continued since.
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Mark in Boise
Posted 2006-12-19 5:05 PM (#225895 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12674

Location: Boise, Idaho
On Mitch's point, I didn't mean to blame the schools. Exactly the opposite. Spoiled parents of spoiled children have made it difficult to educate the children. Parents expect the schools to teach everything, including things that parents should be teaching and then hamstring the schools so the schools can't provide the discipline or moral values that the parents should have instilled in the kids. Then if the kid is a brat, it's not his fault, he has ADD and the school didn't do anything about it.
On a national basis, parents are failing to take responsibility for their kids and are turning the teachers into babysitters with no authority.
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CrimsonLake
Posted 2006-12-19 5:09 PM (#225896 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
August 2006
Posts: 3145

Location: Marlton, NJ
I tell the teachers I'll sign a discipline waiver (of course with the kids listening). It's ridiculous the way the inmates run the asylum.
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alpep
Posted 2006-12-19 5:52 PM (#225897 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10420

Location: NJ
don't get me started on teaching stories.....
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Jewel's Mom a/k/a Joisey Goil #1
Posted 2006-12-19 5:56 PM (#225898 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 1017

Location: Budd Lake, NJ
There are a few reasons for hope: I offered my granddaughter, age two-and-a-half, some of the crackers I was munching on (my mom taught me not to eat in front of people without sharing) and she replied, "No thank you, Gramma, I don't care for any." The daughter and son-in-law are obviously doing something right.
I don't have a lot of tolerance for badly-behaved children, either; but it's not the child's fault if he's not taught how to behave. When I do meet children that are a pleasure to be around, I make it a point to compliment the parents.

--Karen
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lanaki
Posted 2006-12-19 6:06 PM (#225899 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
October 2006
Posts: 5575

Location: big island
Amen to that Karen!
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philmax
Posted 2006-12-19 6:28 PM (#225900 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 659

Location: Hiram, Georgia
The bottom line on children misbehaving in public, is some people have more money than manners, and they show love by lavishly spending on undeserving little brats.
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Mark in Boise
Posted 2006-12-19 7:13 PM (#225901 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12674

Location: Boise, Idaho
Early in our marriage, one of the couples we would hang out with had a son. We didn't have kids yet and we used to get into discussions with them about discipline and spoiling kids, especially an only child. They always said we didn't know what we were talking about because we didn't have kids.
They had another kid about the same time we had our first. They had tons of problems with the first kid, who always seemed to be jealous of having to share with his younger brother. Mom and dad got divorced and last I knew the oldest was in jail. Ours are not perfect, but the oldest graduated Summa Cum Laude and has had a job for over a year. Youngest just got another 4.0 semester. I think a little discipline goes a long way.
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Trader Jim
Posted 2006-12-19 7:30 PM (#225902 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 7307

Location: South of most, North of few
I won't tolerate my child missbehaving in public or in private, hense, I am a little less tollerant of other's children also. I feel your pain, and agree. Parents need to " be the parent" and not a friend. If you don't set boundries for children when they are young, they will find it harder to obey any later in life. Proverbs 22:6 pretty well covers it.
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TexasDoc
Posted 2006-12-20 2:36 AM (#225903 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 1116

Location: Keller, TX

"The thing that I worry about is what kind of people these undisciplined, spoiled, self-centered little brats are going to grow up to be. Selfish, inconsiderate, crybabies most likely."
Terrel Owens (TO) comes to mind.
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muzza
Posted 2006-12-20 7:03 AM (#225904 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent



Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 3736

Location: Sunshine State, Australia
Just after I got my teacher's qualification and my first teaching post in an inner London boys state school, I had a discipline issue with a student. I won't bore you with details, but it ended up with me giving him a backhander to the front of his shoulder.

It wasn't a 'whack', but more to get his attention, as he wasn't listening to me. I immediately had his attention for about 5 seconds, then he says "you just assaulted me" and walked out of the room. I imagined my new career walking out with him.

To keep cutting the long story short, a lot of panic ensued, I reported the incident to my department head, the school principal and the student's school mentor.

By this time, the kid's twin brother was telling anyone who'd listen that "we're gonna get Mr Sheppard sacked" (that's me)

I then phoned the kid's mum to throw myself at her mercy.

She listened to my story and then said "what are YOU doing apologizing to ME???" HE should be apologizing to YOU. Just wait 'til that little **** gets home"

This kid and his twin brother were 2 of my worst and most disruptive students until that day.

They became 2 of my best and most responsive after that.

I was VERY lucky to get to deal with a sensible and realistic parent. It could have gotten VERY ugly.

The world's not all bad.

Yet!
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philmax
Posted 2006-12-20 9:17 AM (#225905 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 659

Location: Hiram, Georgia
Glad it turned out well for you, Muzza, teachers and school systems are at the mercy of bratty parents these days.
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ProfessorBB
Posted 2006-12-20 10:18 AM (#225906 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent



Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5865

Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains
I feel Al's pain.

On the other hand, let me relay another story. Mrs. and I also went to one of our favorite pizza places last night for dinner. There was a table of children, maybe in the 4 to 6 years age group, just having a ball. Their parents were seated at an adjoining table. At least two families were represented. While noisey, the children were not obnoxious at all. I even thought the hockey game on the blaring television was more annoying. I kept thinking about Al's comment and was waiting for the activity to exceed the limit, but it never happened. In fact, I thought to myself, there are few sounds as sweet as a child's genuine laughter with a close friend. I told the parents so as we departed.
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cliff
Posted 2006-12-20 11:19 AM (#225907 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14836

Location: NJ
Half of it (if not MORE) is the parents’ fault.
When people have children, there’s a tendency to NOT go out in public, NOT to socialize, or NOT take part in things because they “have kids”.
The kids (especially when they are smaller) are brought up in a sequestered atmosphere, always exposed to the same small circle of people,
and when they finally DO get out in a public gathering, they act like dogs that are on a leash for the first time.

When my daughter was born, the ex & I owned & operated a retail florist. From the time she was two-weeks-old, she was continually exposed
to public interaction. When we went “out”, she went WITH us. Granted, we were somewhat cognizant about the types of restaurants we brought
her to. We would ask the host/hostess if they could possibly seat us somewhat removed from those that might not want to dine with/near
a young child. If she got ‘restless” (and ALL small children eventually WILL), I’d just pick her up and go for a “strioll” just to change the
atmosphere/environment for her, and alleviate the boredom. I ended up eating a lot of cold dinners back then, but we ended up getting private
guided tours of some pretty swanky restaurant kitchens, and shared a goodly amount of quality time together.
After not-too-long, the “strolls” became unnecessary.

Taking kids “out” when they are young exposes them to different foods, tastes, and (after enough “exposure”), restaurant “decorum”.
My daughter eventually learned that when a waiter/waitress approached the table, it was time to be QUIET and listen to what they had to say.
The whole “ordering” process got to be so second nature that she often ordered her favorite meal from the menu (usually held upside-down)
before she learned how to read.

It’s all just a matter of exposing them to it EARLY & consistently, NOT letting them get away with bad behaviour because they don’t do it
“all that often”, and let them have a little “fun” while you’re treating them like an “adult”.

. . . and the best thing is to have “a Look”. Just basic, non-verbal, eye-language that tells them “You’re now on Thin Ice . . DON’T Proceed”.
My daughter is 21, and to this day I can shoot that “glare” to her from across a crowded room, and it will literally stop her heart mid-beat.


Keeping kids home because you’re afraid of how they’ll behave, will generally give you kids that behave badly in public.
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MWoody
Posted 2006-12-20 11:36 AM (#225908 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13923

Location: Upper Left USA
So Al, how about them Home-Schooled kids?

Fuggetaboutit.

To this day I hear a baby cry and my right elbow comes up...
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cliff
Posted 2006-12-20 11:50 AM (#225909 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14836

Location: NJ
. . I tend to scan the horizon for the nearest body of water . . .
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Slipkid
Posted 2006-12-20 12:15 PM (#225910 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent



Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301

Location: south east Michigan
Cliff...
That was a great post a couple back.
We have tried to do the same thing.
There was a couple times out to dinner when we were complimented on the behavior of our boys.
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seesquare
Posted 2006-12-20 12:23 PM (#225911 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3185

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
For the record, I'm on vacation from the clinic. This is WAY too familiar, and continues to elevate my blood pressure. Operant conditioning- I learned a set of values & behaviors that made me relatively successful in the capitalist culture. Conflict breeds frustration, and a drive for stress reduction. Its permittable to admit ignorance, and inexcusable to perpetuate stupidity.
Bad behavior is just bad behavior. I have absolutely no reservation in telling a parent,"Your obstreperous child has learned no respect in their life- for themself, or for you. They are reacting to chaos & uncertainty. No, there is nothing biologically wrong. YOU need to attend a parenting program, and we've got the best one, anyway. When will you start?
Pay my office manager on your way out. Have a nice day!"
Then, I see the next case- "SS/DD", if you know what I mean.
And, people complain about healthcare costs. So, how do this rate on the "rant scale"?!
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dvd
Posted 2006-12-20 12:31 PM (#225912 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent



Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 1889

Location: Central Massachusetts
Originally posted by cliff:
Keeping kids home because you’re afraid of how they’ll behave, will generally give you kids that behave badly in public.
Cliff you nailed it. We have twin 2-year old daughters and we too make a big effort to socialize them and include them in our activities rather than just staying home.. It can sometimes be a struggle when one or the other of us is out with them alone, but that's how they learn. It makes all the difference.

The other trick is to know your kids well enough to know what you'll be able to pull off on a given evening. I can usually read them pretty well ahead of time and determine how kid-friendly of a restaurant we'll feel comfortable with. Sometimes we just have to throw up our hands and hit a drive-thru. ;)
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CrimsonLake
Posted 2006-12-20 12:40 PM (#225913 - in reply to #225864)
Subject: Re: OT I need to vent


Joined:
August 2006
Posts: 3145

Location: Marlton, NJ
Cliff - same here... where we go, they go. To add to that line of reasoning though - if the parents behave badly in public - the kids will follow suit no matter how exposed they are to different situations. If they see you treating people with respect, they will learn to do the same.
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