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 King for a Day
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| Forums Archive -> The Vault: 2002-2003 | Message format | |
Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7210 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Hi All, A lot of discussion about Ovations new and old, which sounds the best, what materials should be used, what shouldn't... Ovations you love, Ovations you don't... I thought I would start a thread about what I would do if I was King at Ovation and would like to hear from others on the subject. So this would be part of my plan.. [list] [*] Start up R & D and include a real close look at how guitars are being used today and by whom. [*] For Acoustic models, with R & D in place, focus on "image" and get back to making Acoustic Guitars, that just happen to sound good when plugged in. [*] Try to sturcture the "entry level" and overseas guitars to be primarily copies of the Top Line USA models, just cheaper for access to young new musicians and insure anyone can tell the difference. Like the Matrix and Celeb used to be. [*] With the help of R & D, introduce a solid-body line. Keep it simple and along the lines of the PF-22 set-neck and all. (note: When the Parker Fly came out, I thought this should have been an Ovation guitar. Who better to make an Electric that can sound like an Acoustic than the folks that made the first decent pre-amp for an Electric, re-invented the Acoustic sound, and was the most inovative in producing guitars of alternate materials.) [*] Open a custom shop that builds only the best of the best. Re-introduce models that played and sold the best. Build "custom" Ovations both solid and Acoustic for whomever can afford them. [*] When all is in place.. a marketing and sales blitz. Try not to spend too much on throw away adverts, but more into getting Ovation guitars seen and heard. Get them into every artists hands that will play on MTV. Start an online record label for new artists to be heard etc... [*] Finally, and probably most importantly, EVERY guitar should be worthy of the Ovation name. Cheap guitar should only mean "less expensive" and reflect only mass-produced, and less expensive parts, or assembled overseas. Top-of-the-line... should be just that and any "collectors" edition should be from the new Custom Shop and be just as worthy of the Ovation name. [/list] [ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: Mr. Ovation ] | ||
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| samova |
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Joined: January 2002 Posts: 970 Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Miles,i already thought i was "king of ovations".You mean im not??he,he,he Well, i think your stratagy is very good.Im thinking along the same lines.Here is what i would do if they asked me to run the show at Ovation.And wouldn't this be a huge mistake on their part!I would spend all there money on R&D.. Every american built model would get a slightly new bowl design and they would be made of different materials.The bowl material would be closer to what the original ovation bowls were made of.More fiberglass and resin than plastic.This would give the american models there own sound and distinctive shape to distinguish them from korean line.Keep the korean bowls as they are.My focus on the american models would be acoustic sound first then ad electronics to the great acoustic guitar Next i would seperate the american models into three acoustic catagories and one electric catagory. (1-The "ovation Premier series" ) this would be the Adamas(design a new model similar to the early adamas but not exactly),Adamas Q,custom elite and custom legend.Rework these models to have beautiful inlays carved bridges,headstocks,abalone,etc..These models would represent the finest ovation has to offer..Give them there own premier line electronics.These would be the most expensive and best crafted guitars ovation offers..The top of the line. (2- The "ovation standard series") This would be the adamas CVT,SMT,legend,standard elite and the balladeer.Again this would be guitars with the new bowls,focus would be on acoustic sound first then ad the standard series electronics with available upgraded electronics from the premier series.These guitars should sound great acoustically and plugged in.Less focus on ornamentation and details..They should be great quality guitars and a better value... ( 3-The ovation collectors series) Pretty much hang on to the original idea but try some different things.Get creative with this line.It seems that the recent offerings have been the same elite design with some new exotic wood top.I would experiment with some other things here and get creative with it.Again these models would have the new bowl design and custom electronics.Not like the other ovations electronics.. (4- "The Ovation electric series" ) This one should get the guys at ovation laughing a bit!! I would keep the Viper model but improve the electronics.Offer it also in a center soundhole model(kind of like the chet atkins model)Then i would offer two solid body electrics.One would be the reissue of the deacon/breadwinner.Same battle axe shape and design.Then offer a "new" solid body electric with a revised body shape that tends to be radical like the deacon was at the time.Design something different with the help of the Hamer guys and make it sound great with some demarzios or something along that line..The PF22 was not really a bad design.Start with that shape and work from there to come up with something.... The korean line i would keep the same with the current bowls.they would have have their own electronics.No american electronics would be offered in the korean models.I would make sure the rosette and epualettes are slightly different on the korean line to keep them separated from the american line..This way there would be no blurring the line.....Anyway,these are my thoughts.Of cource my thoughts would cost the company a fortune and probably put the company out of business....I guess that why were dreaming here..... | ||
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| s_mkheidze |
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Joined: February 2002 Posts: 33 Location: montreal | I agree with everything you said Sam! They gotta separate them cheap korean stuff from the real stuff. I mean is'nt that what the applause line is for? To make an ovation at a cheap and readily affordable price. I especially agree on the electrics! I am above all, a fan of the solidbody ovations, and hate the fact that my favorite guitar manufacturer does not offer any solidbody models. I think they start small, but with good quality, and then grow. People arent stupid, they know what is good and what is'nt. The will find the new solids to be quality and word will spread. The biggest mistake that they made, was releasing good electrics, but not up to par with the big guys. I mean why pay for an ovation when you could get a fender or gibson right? of course i will never own either a fender or a gibson, but I am not most people. | ||
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| moody, p.i. |
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Joined: March 2002 Posts: 15654 Location: SoCal | I agree with much of what Sam posted on the model breakdown, with the top of the line guitars actually looking like top of the line guitars. My 83 Elite (model 1537) has AAA spruce, wood body binding, and a layered headstock and heal cap. It looks like what it is ... a top of the line instrument. Thanks Bill. But ultimately, Ovation needs to go back to a top of the line unplugged acoustic sound. About 10 years ago, Ovation started selling itself as a guitar to be plugged in. There was no more emphasis on an uplugged sound. If I ran Ovation, I'd break the models down as Sam suggested, but for the top three lines, I'd work like crazy to re-educate people regarding the unplugged sound. It would be a long haul task, but if Ovation wants to be a premier guitar manufacturer, not just a maker of utility instruments (and that may currently be the rub), then they have got to do this. | ||
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| Beal |
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Joined: January 2002 Posts: 14127 Location: 6 String Ranch | Good ideas guys One question, Is there realy a place for an Ovation Soild body?? Why not have that offering in the Hamer line. It's the same factory anyway? Call it the O'Hamer, paint it green............... | ||
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| samova |
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Joined: January 2002 Posts: 970 Location: Atlanta,Ga. | Bill,its got to be an ovation headstock and its got to look like an ovation rather than a Hamer.It could be built by hamer.Hell, there in the same building anyway.Who would know??I also feel that the time is right for an ovation solidbody electric.The deacs and breads were way ahead of their time and failed in the 70's..As hot as deacs and breads are right now on the used market.I think they would sell...Its time!!! I want the first one serial #0001 ,how about it Ovation???? [ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: samova ] | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7210 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I absolutely think "pooling" resources is the way to go. As far as solid-body guitars, I'm not sure about re-intruducing previous models, but with Hamer design, maybe keep the Ovation headstock, maybe get the lightweight material from Ovation, and both sides of the house work on getting the right Electric sound and the right "pseudo acoustic" sound (a.la. Parker) I think they can come up with something that would sell nicely. The Breadwinner, Magnum, and UKII were all maybe a little ahead of their time, but they were inovative and cutting edge. Of course all of this would require an active Research and Development department that was dialed into the pulse of the industry. I don't think a new solid-body is going to set the world aflame.. but I think the schtick of a Hamer and Ovation "combined forces" axe would sell, but it couldn't be thrown together like the GS's were. It would have to be a quality instrument to sell at all. You can buy a decent electric guitar from anyone... It would have to be unique in design and be very functional, playing on the craftsmanship of two great guitar makers combined. Any of our ideas are mute without proper marketing. R & D needs to work with artists and marketing needs to focus on selling, not finding things to sell. | ||
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| alpep |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10581 Location: NJ | Cwk2 Hamer struggles to keep it's market share and essentially is a custom shop so why not offer limited edition reissues of the electric solidbody series. it would not bee too difficult to adapt a set neck hamer to an Ovation headstock and then set he CNC machine to cut out deacon bodies. a set neck with some sort of special duncan designed pickups and schaller NOT grover or ping tuners. I feel that the current production of Hamers if not surpasses rivals prs gibson and guild. I have been in contact with Dan armstrong he is working on a new version of the orange squeezer how about using this design as the compressor!!! Now we are cooking here. Make 50 of them if they fly make 50 more if they don;t you have a reissue collector's guitar and move on to the next one perhaps the pf 22 make 50 and so on. Miles Ovation's has the viper which is not really like the fly but Hamer has the duotone. I never really liked the styling of the duotone but I love how it sounds and plays!!!! I does not appeal to me but I do like the viper (which is a wood body btw not plastic) so a 16 fret neck clear the body and some emg pickups and you got my viplectortone. Maybe an electric also version of the viper could be offered to fill that void but with Hamer only selling limited amounts of dutotones how many electric vipers could they sell another limited edition perhaps. it all comes down to numbers buyers and costs [ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: alpep ] | ||
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| Mr. Ovation |
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Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7210 Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I borrowed this post from elsewhere on the board because I think it is also relevent here, and I explain at the bottom. Originally posted by alpep: Leo Fender was neither a luthier nor a musician. He took the the advice of artists and musicians and transferred them into his knowledge of mechanics and technology. As a result he designed some of the most respected and copied guitars of the modern electric guitar era. You need not be a luthier to express yourself but put into words how you feel. Eric Pritchard who designed the PRS amps told me Carlos Santana told him he thought his amps sounded like white wine and he wanted an amp that sounds like red wine. Eric took that thought and transferred it into engineering terms and redesigned his amps. I think Fender or Gibson would be hard pressed to sell anything "avant-garde" or very innovative at this point in time. They may try, but it's like trying to re-invent Ketchup. I think Ovation has a little different stigma attached in that (again proper marketing) they could come out as the "a lot has happened in 37 years, but here we are, with renewed focus, and a product line representative of 37 years of innovation, and experience." There IS a precedent for this... first lets go outside the music biz... Volkswagen. The re-invented and re-engineered the bug. They started out making an affordable simple car years ago.. they went all over the map in the 80's and 90's... then.. they took all of their experience, including one of the best marketing campaigns I've seen in years, and had a hit. Most importantly, when you strip away the glits, you have a nice affordable little car. I think VOX Amplification did this recently too. They had the AC30 and similar models and tried gazillion things since the 60's. Now they come out with the Valvetronics. A tube amp that can model. When you strip away all the effects and modeling... you still have a killer tube amp. Now Ovation... I'm King.. Build an Acoustic that has all the latest bells and whistles. Tube pre-amp maybe, operates on phantom power, built in A/D converter (don't just give a line, give a digital line). Hell, even MIDI out. But when you take the guitar out of the case, you should be able to sit down and play it. And it should sound like a beautiful Acoustic with that distinct Adamas tone. | ||
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| Beal |
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Joined: January 2002 Posts: 14127 Location: 6 String Ranch | Alpep, Good Ideas above,but... Hamer suffers from the same malady that is hitting Ovation, which is the Kaman Music Company has REAL problems selling/marketing high end products. enuff said, it's all in the other posts anyway Get the MPs interested in the idea and they might do it. Make sure you specify your prefered country of origin. | ||
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